Does anything stimulate the economy like eating and drinking?

Nwm2

Serious question. Is going out and socialising the best stimulus in terms of the amount of money that remains/circulates in the economy?

If I go out and spend €150 on a night with the wife it seems that relatively little of that money leaves these shores unlike, say, a car scrappage scheme.

Basically if we all go out for some food, beers and get a taxi home we'll be out of this recession in no time. A bit flippant, but assuming that most of the food and drink is sourced locally (big assumption I guess?), I think it's hard to beat.

Private Joker

nothing like some nice irish wine.

Its not a bad idea, its very hard to examine each and every piece of shopping you put into your basket to see if its irish, i dont buy lyons tea anymore( traitors) . but you would hope that a restaurant would source local ingredients. and we really dont produce much in the lines of luxury goods.

Brussels Sprout

A lot of that drinks money would be going to foreign companies like Carlsberg, Heineken, Anheuser Busch and Diageo.

ardmacha

A lot of that drinks money would be going to foreign companies like Carlsberg, Heineken, Anheuser Busch and Diageo.

Not that much. After Excise, VAT, the publicans take, the deliverymen and so on.

beeno67

ardmacha wrote: »

Not that much. After Excise, VAT, the publicans take, the deliverymen and so on.

Plus the drinks are brewed in Ireland

Farmer Pudsey

Nwm2 wrote: »

Serious question. Is going out and socialising the best stimulus in terms of the amount of money that remains/circulates in the economy?

If I go out and spend €150 on a night with the wife it seems that relatively little of that money leaves these shores unlike, say, a car scrappage scheme.

Basically if we all go out for some food, beers and get a taxi home we'll be out of this recession in no time. A bit flippant, but assuming that most of the food and drink is sourced locally (big assumption I guess?), I think it's hard to beat.

Although you are being a bit flippant there is a grain of truth in your post, it is not just the fact that most of the produce/drink will have a heavy Irish input but also these area's are labour intensive.

You are right about the purchasse of consumer goods such as cars, Tv's etc, we have no heavy engineering production sectors dealing in cars or electricital goods in general. This is where I disagreed with the scrapage scheme it was a transfer of tax money to subsidise German, Italian, French and British jobs.

Low skill labour intensive jobs however are no longer attractive to an Irish workforce that is why you see lots of non-nations working in this area as the Social Welafre system is too attractive for many Irish low skill workers.

Cookie_Monster

look at labels on food when you buy it, most is produced in Holland these days, Irish chicken is in fact mostly from the north.
while a fiarly big chunk of the cash stays on shore, I reckon more than you expect goes overseas

OMD

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

look at labels on food when you buy it, most is produced in Holland these days, Irish chicken is in fact mostly from the north.
while a fiarly big chunk of the cash stays on shore, I reckon more than you expect goes overseas

Most food is not produced in Holland. Most chicken in Tesco is from NI but in other Supermarkets it is Irish. Tesco & Marks & Spencers pride themselves on buying British but if you avoid those two you can be reasonably sure your produce comes from Ireland where possible.

RobbieTheRobber

OMD wrote: »

Most food is not produced in Holland. Most chicken in Tesco is from NI but in other Supermarkets it is Irish. Tesco & Marks & Spencers pride themselves on buying British but if you avoid those two you can be reasonably sure your produce comes from Ireland where possible.

I dont think this is true, i think ireland imports approx 50% of its chicken for the domestic market.
I read an article which claimed that Ireland imports chicken, largely due to high consumption of Chicken breast fillets.
Apparently we consume 6 breasts for every leg of chicken eaten in this country.

antoobrien

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I read an article which claimed that Ireland imports chicken, largely due to high consumption of Chicken breast fillets.
Apparently we consume 6 breasts for every leg of chicken eaten in this country.

That is true, but it's also true that a good portion (up to 50%) of the food sold in the UK is produced here and packaged in the UK. We sell a lot more beef abroad than we do here, cheese is a big export item to the UK (even though it's not packaged here).

Cookie_Monster

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Apparently we consume 6 breasts for every leg of chicken eaten in this country.

thats cos legs are horrid and gristly and yuck

Icepick

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You are right about the purchasse of consumer goods such as cars, Tv's etc, we have no heavy engineering production sectors dealing in cars or electricital goods in general. This is where I disagreed with the scrapage scheme it was a transfer of tax money to subsidise German, Italian, French and British jobs.

That's OK because they in turn buy expensive goods produced here. The 'buy local' mantra will damage environment and economy if followed blindly.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Low skill labour intensive jobs however are no longer attractive to an Irish workforce that is why you see lots of non-nations working in this area as the Social Welafre system is too attractive for many Irish low skill workers.

Indeed, substantial welfare cuts are needed to incentivize people to compete for those jobs.

Defiler Of The Coffin

It's certainly a good way to keep money in the local economy. Typical night out for some people:

• Few cans from the offy - tax for the Government and money for a local enterprise
  
• Taxi into town - money for a local enterprise
  
• Few pints in the local - tax for the Government and money for a local enterprise
  
• Into the nightclub - tax for the Government and money for a local enterprise
  
• Few chips afterwards - money for a local enterprise
  
• Taxi or bus home - money for a local enterprise.

The only downside I can see is the health effects from too much alcohol consumption putting pressure on the health system, not to mention loss to the economy from hungover workers calling in sick!

Nwm2

Icepick wrote: »

That's OK because they in turn buy expensive goods produced here. The 'buy local' mantra will damage environment and economy if followed blindly.

.

I don't tend to support the 'buy Irish' brigade over the long term, but this was in the context of a short term stimulus.

V_Moth

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Low skill labour intensive jobs however are no longer attractive to an Irish workforce that is why you see lots of non-nations working in this area as the Social Welafre system is too attractive for many Irish low skill workers.

Icepick wrote: »

Indeed, substantial welfare cuts are needed to incentivize people to compete for those jobs.

Rubbish. Try raising a family on €90 @ 40 hours/week. Its not possible. The reason these jobs are going to outsiders is that they will live 5 to 10 to a flat/house significantly cutting living expenses.

Uncle Ben

Icepick wrote: »

That's OK because they in turn buy expensive goods produced here. The 'buy local' mantra will damage environment and economy if followed blindly.


Indeed, substantial welfare cuts are needed to incentivize people to compete for those jobs.

Wrong on two counts. Firstly there are no jobs of a magnitude that will take enough people of the live register at present to make a difference, and secondly, most if not all of those people on SW spend all of their money in the local economy, no fancy cars, foreign hols or large 82"" TVs for these people.

Icepick

V_Moth wrote: »

Rubbish. Try raising a family on €90 @ 40 hours/week. Its not possible.

If you cannot earn more, you don't have kids, live frugally or strive to earn more. Coercing others into paying for your family's comfortable life is immoral and unsustainable.

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Wrong on two counts. Firstly there are no jobs of a magnitude that will take enough people of the live register at present to make a difference,

It's a long term solution and the welfare budget won't be able to pick up the tab too much longer anyway.

Uncle Ben wrote: »

and secondly, most if not all of those people on SW spend all of their money in the local economy, no fancy cars, foreign hols or large 82"" TVs for these people.

They still spend much less in local economy and pay much less in taxes than wealthier people.
Regarding fancy cars and HDTVs, just visit the likes of Ballymun and Ballyfermot.

krd

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You are right about the purchasse of consumer goods such as cars, Tv's etc, we have no heavy engineering production sectors dealing in cars or electricital goods in general. This is where I disagreed with the scrapage scheme it was a transfer of tax money to subsidise German, Italian, French and British jobs.

Yes, but politicians have great pals who own car dealerships. Vehicle registration Tax, is also a big earner for the taxman.

Low skill labour intensive jobs however are no longer attractive to an Irish workforce that is why you see lots of non-nations working in this area as the Social Welafre system is too attractive for many Irish low skill workers.

It's not that the jobs are "unattractive", it's that if an Irish person had to compete with Chinese wages, they would die of starvation. And where would they live? In a ditch? A Chinese workers wages wouldn't cover a weeks rent.

But maybe you're right. And agricultural grants make it unattractive to farmers to be more efficient and profitable. Let's remove those agricultural grants and throw the farmers to the dogs of the free market.

carpejugulum

krd wrote: »

Let's remove those agricultural grants and throw the farmers to the dogs of the free market.

Where are these geniuses who decide who to protect and how strongly?
In the government?

Godge

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You are right about the purchasse of consumer goods such as cars, Tv's etc, we have no heavy engineering production sectors dealing in cars or electricital goods in general. This is where I disagreed with the scrapage scheme it was a transfer of tax money to subsidise German, Italian, French and British jobs.

I have often wondered about the scrappage schemes. At one level, provide a subsidy of €1,000 to someone to buy a car that costs €10,000 and returns €5,000 tax to the State (makey-up figures for illustrative purposes) and at one level that makes sense. However, if the €10,000 had been spent on other things in the economy, then you would have to compare the tax take on both options. On the other hand if it meant getting saved money into circulation, then a good thing.

Different factors pulling different ways is a nightmare for policy-makers. Has anyone seen a cost-benefit analyis of the scrappage schemes?

krd

carpejugulum wrote: »

Where are these geniuses who decide who to protect and how strongly?
In the government?

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are basically agricultural parties. They have the farmer mentality. Which is right wing and free markets, for everyone who isn't a farmer.

ardmacha

At one level, provide a subsidy of €1,000 to someone to buy a car that costs €10,000 and returns €5,000 tax to the State (makey-up figures for illustrative purposes) and at one level that makes sense. However, if the €10,000 had been spent on other things in the economy, then you would have to compare the tax take on both options. On the other hand if it meant getting saved money into circulation, then a good thing.

The point is that the country hasn't gone back to the Stone Age, people will still want to drive cars. The scrappage scheme was largely a replacement of new cars, where VAT and full VRT is collected, instead of used imports.

Farmer Pudsey

ardmacha wrote: »

The point is that the country hasn't gone back to the Stone Age, people will still want to drive cars. The scrappage scheme was largely a replacement of new cars, where VAT and full VRT is collected, instead of used imports.

The scrapage was targated at low emission cars most people that import 2nd hand cars are looking trying to but specific type of car wheather it is high preformance cars or high specification cars.

This scheme was most attractive to couple that had two cars one good and an old banger, trade in the car against a new car scrap the banger and buy a newer banger