Kickstarter: car horns for bikes

Qualitymark

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lansey/loud-bicycle-car-horns-for-cyclists

Sounds like a good idea: as the originator says, when motorists hear car horns they get out of the way or slam on the brakes.

Darkglasses

Well it's in direct competition with the Air-zound I guess.

It does sound more like a car, whether that is more or less effective than the more shrill Air-zound parp I don't know. Personally, I find the Airzound noise more alarming.

Currently you can buy an Airzound for £14.89 on Amazon, I doubt that product will be able to get down to that price.

It does seem like a higher quality product though. It won't take up a whole bottle cage, and it won't need to be pumped up so often. Nice

mrcheez

I know I'm resurrecting a zombie thread here, but the 2nd generation of these are on sale now for $149 at http://loudbicycle.com/
(shipping in August)

Very intrigued, anyone bought one of the first generation ones? My Amsterdam-style bell doesn't seem to have much effect in traffic.

Kaisr Sose

It is illegal to have a horn on a bike in Ireland.

(1) Every pedal cycle (other than a cycle constructed or adapted for use as a racing cycle) while used in a public place shall be fitted with an audible warning device consisting of a bell capable of being heard at a reasonable distance, and no other type of audible warning instrument shall be fitted to a pedal cycle while used in a public place.



Kinda crazy give that a motorist most likely won't hear a bell. Could have done with one a few weeks ago before getting hit by a car.

MJohnston

Never mind cars, most pedestrians can't hear them, or at least do and ignore them anyway.

longshanks

Wear it on your arm. Then it's not the bike that is equipped, it's the rider.

mrcheez

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Every pedal cycle (other than a cycle constructed or adapted for use as a racing cycle) ...shall be fitted with an audible warning device consisting of a bell...

Seems the wording means that rule doesn't apply to racing cycles.

Anyway, isn't that just another one of those laws that will never be enforced by Gardai?

Fian

mrcheez wrote: »

Seems the wording means that rule doesn't apply to racing cycles.

Anyway, isn't that just another one of those laws that will never be enforced by Gardai?

Probably the latter. I have never heard of a prosecution for not having a bell on the bike either.


I have an airzound on my hybrid, rarely used but i am glad of it when i do use it. It sounds like a car horn and gets an immediate reaction from drivers, who probably think for an instant that they are squeezing a car or a motorbike on their left.

I have a 600ml bottle affixed to mine. I only need to pump it about once a month or so, and tbh probbaly not even that often.

mrcheez

Fian wrote: »

Probably the latter. I have never heard of a prosecution for not having a bell on the bike either.


I have an airzound on my hybrid, rarely used but i am glad of it when i do use it. It sounds like a car horn and gets an immediate reaction from drivers, who probably think for an instant that they are squeezing a car or a motorbike on their left.

I have a 600ml bottle affixed to mine. I only need to pump it about once a month or so, and tbh probbaly not even that often.

Interesting. How long does the sound last per pumped bottle? Is there an indicator to show the level of pressure left in the pump?

Red Kev

Any cyclist who thinks the AirZound is some sort of a positive addition to cycling needs to have a good look at themselves. They're a pain, a nuisance, a source of noise pollution and tend to be used by people who seems to believe that the road is entirely theirs. They scare the crap out of animals, old people, other road users (including cyclists and pedestrians), and any cyclist who can't get around without one should just take the bus or car.

Same goes for the high powered lights whose idea is to blind the fcuk out of every other road user. Clueless.

The Dutch and Danish seem to get around without them from my experience and they're both held up as models of cycling culture.

omri

Red Kev wrote: »

Any cyclist who thinks the AirZound is some sort of a positive addition to cycling needs to have a good look at themselves. They're a pain, a nuisance, a source of noise pollution and tend to be used by people who seems to believe that the road is entirely theirs. They scare the crap out of animals, old people, other road users (including cyclists and pedestrians), and any cyclist who can't get around without one should just take the bus or car.

Same goes for the high powered lights whose idea is to blind the fcuk out of every other road user. Clueless.

The Dutch and Danish seem to get around without them from my experience and they're both held up as models of cycling culture.

1000% disagree.

From my own experience the bell that my bike came with was useless when a car cut across me turning left. All I could do is slam the brakes and it was a close call anyway. Wish I had a propper horn to allert the driver. Simillar situations happened couple more time. All I could do is shout but doubt this had any impact. So yeah I got a loud bicycle horn. And will use it when situation will require it. I don't cycle around shouting randomly at people to scare them etc. so I won't be using the horn like that either.

I find your comment kind of stupid really. But then again you have the right to your point of view, even when its wrong.

To these that might be interested I got The Hornit

P.S. - I think the dutch/danish cycling culture has a lot to do with the infrastructure, the amount of cyclists to drivers ratio and their perception of each other. In Ireland it feels its the "ultimate evil" no matter which side you ask.

mrcheez

Red Kev wrote: »

Any cyclist who thinks the AirZound is some sort of a positive addition to cycling needs to have a good look at themselves. They're a pain, a nuisance, a source of noise pollution and tend to be used by people who seems to believe that the road is entirely theirs. They scare the crap out of animals, old people, other road users (including cyclists and pedestrians), and any cyclist who can't get around without one should just take the bus or car.

Same goes for the high powered lights whose idea is to blind the fcuk out of every other road user. Clueless.

The Dutch and Danish seem to get around without them from my experience and they're both held up as models of cycling culture.

By that logic car horns should also be banned.

mrcheez

omri wrote: »

To these that might be interested I got The Hornit

Not sure those ones are quite as effective as the ones that literally sound like a car horn though.

Drivers are more accustomed to hearing the sound of a horn on the road and react accordingly than if they heard a sound alien to them and are unsure what exactly is causing it. A car horn send signals to the brain of "watch out for something nearby on the road".

Kaisr Sose

mrcheez wrote: »

Seems the wording means that rule doesn't apply to racing cycles.

Anyway, isn't that just another one of those laws that will never be enforced by Gardai?

Racing bikes are exempted alright - due to the drop bar. You can't ring a bell when on the drops.

Any one commuting to work or cycling around an urban area should have a bell and having one should be enforced. They are effective for warning pedestrians of your presence etc ( eg pedestrians walking oncycle lanes adjacent to pathway etc).

mrcheez

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

You can't ring a bell when on the drops.

You can ring one of the "Loudbicycle" horns though as it uses a button that can be positioned anywhere on the drop bar.

omri

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Racing bikes are exempted alright - due to the drop bar. You can't ring a bell when on the drops.

Any one commuting to work or cycling around an urban area should have a bell and having one should be enforced. They are effective for warning pedestrians of your presence etc ( eg pedestrians walking oncycle lanes adjacent to pathway etc).

I think the bells might be getting bit outdated by now given that a lot of people are using earphones listening to the music these days.

DavyD_83

mrcheez wrote: »

Not sure those ones are quite as effective as the ones that literally sound like a car horn though.

Drivers are more accustomed to hearing the sound of a horn on the road and react accordingly than if they heard a sound alien to them and are unsure what exactly is causing it. A car horn send signals to the brain of "watch out for something nearby on the road".

But surely a car (or pedestrian) reacting accordingly to a car horn, involves looking for a car, moving to avoid a car (into non car space?) etc.
The last thing anybody thinks when they hear a car horn is "I must not have seen a cyclist", or "I better get off the cycle path".
To me, sounding like a car, will only encourage people to look to the cars for their error.

Personally, i like shouting randomly at people or cars that are breaking the rules and causing me hassle. Not sure beeping at them would give me the same pleasure.
I need to get back to cycling in the city more

Kaisr Sose

mrcheez wrote: »

You can ring one of the "Loudbicycle" horns though as it uses a button that can be positioned anywhere on the drop bar.

Maybe, .....but they are currently illegal to use on a pedal cycle in Ireland.

mrcheez

DavyD_83 wrote: »

Personally, i like shouting randomly at people or cars that are breaking the rules and causing me hassle. Not sure beeping at them would give me the same pleasure.

Messes with my zen thing... I'm too calm while cycling to shout at people

Prefer a bell/horn to do the work for me.

Fian

mrcheez wrote: »

Interesting. How long does the sound last per pumped bottle? Is there an indicator to show the level of pressure left in the pump?

No indicator, though you can squeeze the bottle to check that it still has pressure. The sound would probably last for about 40 seconds if you held it down, though tbh there is never any need to do that - just tap it. I use a pepsi max bottle, my original bottle got punctured.

I obviously also disagree with Red Kev (since i use one!) the horns are definitely capable of being abused and could scare pedestrians if you were rude enough to blast them, but they are valuable to alert drivers. I normally use my voice if I want to alert a pedestrian, would not use the horn.

A beep will let a driver oblivious to you know where you are. I think they are a really valuable safety feature in urban traffic. Would not bother with one on my road bike but for commuting they are great.

mrcheez

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Maybe, .....but they are currently illegal to use on a pedal cycle in Ireland.

I'd be interested in hearing how many others have been stopped for using the sound devices on their own bikes.

cdaly_

mrcheez wrote: »

By that logic car horns should also be banned.

Yep. They should.

Car horns are supposed to be used alert other road users of a danger.

Car horns are used in Ireland as complaining devices.

tomasrojo

In situations that where I'm taken by surprise by someone else's manoeuvre, I don't think I'd have time to find the bell (or air horn) and sound it, as my recollection is that avoiding the other person takes up all your limited time. I've never bothered with a bell or equivalent. My bakfiets came with one, so it's the only one of my three bikes with a bell, but I haven't used it.

The law to have one is not currently enforced, hasn't recently been enforced, and I doubt whether it'll be enforced in the near future. But I'm not going to gainsay people who find them useful.

tomasrojo

Funnily enough, my only encounter with an AirZound "in the wild" was when an irate cyclist sounded it at me on my bike. I can't remember what I'd done, but it was pure complaining, rather than warning, and I could hear him muttering furiously and fumbling for the switch before I heard the horn.

mrcheez

tomasrojo wrote: »

In situations that where I'm taken by surprise by someone else's manoeuvre, I don't think I'd have time to find the bell (or air horn) and sound it, as my recollection is that avoiding the other person takes up all your limited time. I've never bothered with a bell or equivalent. My bakfiets came with one, so it's the only one of my three bikes with a bell, but I haven't used it.

Funny I have to use my bike bell all the time on bike lanes where pedestrians have unwittingly (or purposely?) strayed onto it, and has certainly made them aware a bike was coming from behind.

Granted I wouldn't use the car horn on pedestrians (well unless they were particularly stubborn), but there have been times where I needed to tap on a car window while being almost squished against the edge of a road in heavy traffic (bell wasn't audible) and a car horn would certainly help in these circumstances, if only to wake up the driver inside.

Pepe LeFrits

tomasrojo wrote: »

Funnily enough, my only encounter with an AirZound "in the wild" was when an irate cyclist sounded it at me on my bike. I can't remember what I'd done, but it was pure complaining, rather than warning, and I could hear him muttering furiously and fumbling for the switch before I heard the horn.

Can't say I'm too enamoured with the idea of these airhorns for the above reason. In my experience car horns are rarely used for a valid reason and I doubt bike horns would be any different. If you practice defensive cycling and you see a dangerous situation developing, you can just slow down.

flatface

omri wrote: »

1000% disagree.

From my own experience the bell that my bike came with was useless when a car cut across me turning left.

Cant say I like the idea of them either. I cycle for the peace and calm of it, less noise on the street the better.

How are you getting cut off by a left turning car? They either just overtook you and they should have seen you and are inconsiderately cutting you off regardless - or you went up the inside of traffic and you could work on your defensive cycling. Spotting and giving way to left turning traffic is an essential skill on our roads.

mrcheez

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

If you practice defensive cycling and you see a dangerous situation developing, you can just slow down.

flatface wrote: »

you could work on your defensive cycling. Spotting and giving way to left turning traffic is an essential skill on our roads.

So in the case of an accident where a car didn't see/hear you and pulls out in front of you the general consensus is that it's the cyclist's fault for not practising defensive cycling?

ted1

mrcheez wrote: »

By that logic car horns should also be banned.

The use of them after dusk is banned or rather the rules of the roads at not to use it. Can't find the SI to go with it

omri

flatface wrote: »

How are you getting cut off by a left turning car?

Because I cannot mind control the drivers..

My bike is long and heavy, so tends to be slow on even slight uphill sections - although this is now improving with the mileage. At that particular occasion I wasn't speeding or zig-zagging in the traffic or whatever else you could think off just using the path as it's intended. There is a cycle path in blackrock beside the road - it's a nice and new path, very bicycle friendly. It's one lights before monkstown turn that you have left turn. So without the mind control once I'm entering the zone where the road splits to the left and the driver decided to turn left regardless of me being in that zone all I can do is stop and see what happens. Horn in these cases is priceless.

Same thing happened when I was entering the right turn lane on the junction and the driver cut in front of me from the left hand side - possible he didnt anticipate that my bike is long - again horn is priceless.

Situations like this happen and will happen unless cars are driven by robots. So any tool on top of my skills that can help is a welcome one.

flatface

omri wrote: »

Because I cannot mind control the drivers..

My bike is long and heavy, so tends to be slow on even slight uphill sections - although this is now improving with the mileage. At that particular occasion I wasn't speeding or zig-zagging in the traffic or whatever else you could think off just using the path as it's intended. There is a cycle path in blackrock beside the road - it's a nice and new path, very bicycle friendly. It's one lights before monkstown turn that you have left turn. So without the mind control once I'm entering the zone where the road splits to the left and the driver decided to turn left regardless of me being in that zone all I can do is stop and see what happens. Horn in these cases is priceless.

Same thing happened when I was entering the right turn lane on the junction and the driver cut in front of me from the left hand side - possible he didnt anticipate that my bike is long - again horn is priceless.

Situations like this happen and will happen unless cars are driven by robots. So any tool on top of my skills that can help is a welcome one.

Im not having a go at your cycling, I am sure you handle the bike well. I suppose I cant see a case where a horn would help instead of just yielding to a potential hazard. The blackrock example is just like other separated bike lanes - they create confusing issues at each junction for cyclist and driver alike. If i can't take the normal traffic lane to block traffic I would eyeball the driver approaching, prepare to stop, and if they don't look me in the eye and yield, come to a stop. Pain but its a product of the design.

Pepe LeFrits

mrcheez wrote: »

So in the case of an accident where a car didn't see/hear you and pulls out in front of you the general consensus is that it's the cyclist's fault for not practising defensive cycling?

Nope.

I'm saying I don't really see the scenarios where a horn would be beneficial. I've never been knocked off my bike by a vehicle (thankfully) but I've had a few close shaves down through the years and I don't think having a horn would have helped in any of them. I've had a few near misses where a car suddenly and without warning turned left in front of me, and a horn wouldn't have helped. What did was that I immediately hit the brakes hard, and to be honest if I'd wasted even a split second deciding whether to toot my horn or hit the brakes it might have done me in.

The only situation I can think of that I've had where a horn might have been useful was when a car started to drift towards me and push me into the footpath, but in that case braking to let the car move ahead is preferable too. You can hit your horn but you're still relying on the driver doing the right thing, and I'd rather be responsible for myself. Ultimately if you observe a danger, slowing down is an immediate remedy, beeping your horn means waiting for the driver to hear it, spot you, and react.

omri

flatface wrote: »

Im not having a go at your cycling, I am sure you handle the bike well. I suppose I cant see a case where a horn would help instead of just yielding to a potential hazard. The blackrock example is just like other separated bike lanes - they create confusing issues at each junction for cyclist and driver alike. If i can't take the normal traffic lane to block traffic I would eyeball the driver approaching, prepare to stop, and if they don't look me in the eye and yield, come to a stop. Pain but its a product of the design.

All I'm saying is that these are real life situations so a loud horn will at least draw the attention of the driver. That time I just rang the bell - it wasn't loud, didn't have any impact on the driver, I felt helpless and in need of something that would work - this stuck with me and I decided to get the horn. If the car is pushing me off my track I don't collide with the car but move out of the way but that's too close for my liking so it's yielding or getting hit. The driver didn't even react. I'm past the stage of throwing Fs in these situations so I'll let the horn do the work.

People are getting older, have families and not everyone is an alley cat, so keeping safe is a priority.

There is this notion of downplaying the hairy situations caused by the drivers and blaming cyclist for abusing the freedom that bike gives you on the road. There are a lot of cyclist that I pass daily who jump the red lights or do other stupid things and there is not much anyone can do about that. There are idiots on both sides but what's important is to keep as safe as possible. My other half is getting bike to commute to work.

I will actually cycle with her for few weeks just to teach her how to navigate safely in the traffic.

mrcheez

omri wrote: »

There are idiots on both sides but what's important is to keep as safe as possible.

Pretty much this. Using as much as you can to be noticed on the road is a priority.

flatface

omri wrote: »

There is this notion of downplaying the hairy situations caused by the drivers and blaming cyclist for abusing the freedom that bike gives you on the road.

I dont know, maybe Im wrong but I dont see the left turning situation as being caused always by bad drivers, sometimes its poor design. Some road layouts do not give you an indication as a driver that you should yield to cyclists going straight ahead, yielding to traffic on the left is awkward I've always hated it and try to go around the outside or stop.
For me there are very hairy situations that are harder to avoid such as drivers overtaking too close and fast. Horn wouldn't help there much either.

mrcheez

flatface wrote: »

For me there are very hairy situations that are harder to avoid such as drivers overtaking too close and fast. Horn wouldn't help there much either.

OK here's a simple scenario where it is required. Cycling along bus lane, cars on rhs in heavy traffic. Car suddenly decides to go down bus lane to undertake traffic.

Scenario one: car pulls in/doesn't see cyclist in time, rams into cyclist or comes very close to it.

Scenario two: cyclist sees car about to pull out (has finger on horn ready just in case as he could predict such a situation might occur) and doesn't have time to stop, pumps horn, car stops expecting car to come down bus lane.

In both situations, sure you might be able to stop in time, but the horn greatly increases the chance the car will stop before completely running you off.

omri

Let's not try re-invent the wheel here. The horn is something that should improve your safety, it will not make you 100% safe. People use horns in cars as a warning and that works, can't see a reason why it won't work on the bicycle. There are people who will support this, will get them and use them. The others won't.

fryup

it will only end in tears...or a fight

JBokeh

Hope to God these are banned on sportives before someone brings one along with them