Would like feedback on my 2013 plan from those who have run Connemara & DCM..

statss

Hi,

I took up running this year. I've entered a few races over various distances culminating in the Waterford half marathon which I did in 1.45. This forum has been a great resource for information so far.

My plan for 2013 is to run the Dublin marathon in under 4 hours. If I achieve nothing else but this, I will be a happy man.

To achieve this, my loose plan for 2013 is to enter Connemara HM in April -> break in May for exams -> a few 10ks in June/July- > Race Series - > Athlone 3/4 ->DCM 2013. I would be following Hal Higdons HM and Marathon Novice 2 plans.

However, I am now wondering if it would be a better idea to train for the full Connemara marathon as a better preparation for Dublin, e.g run without a time in mind, just get the full marathon experience. I've heard Connemara is extremely hard though with tough hillls. Am I being overly ambitious here? Would my original plan be more reasonable? Is two marathons in my second year of running too much? I'd be much more confident about Dublin if I have completed Connemara. I was thinking of running Dublin for a charity close to my heart as well so want to make sure I finish and not let anyone down.

My weekly mileage at the moment is 20-25 ish miles - I realise I will have to significantly up this come January. I've begun training with a club and intend to join them properly in January and take part in the long weekend runs.

ThePiedPiper

It all depends on where you are now, what sort of time commitment you can put into it, and what your goals are. It sounds to me like you're way more motivated by the Dublin marathon, so from this point of view, running a harder marathon in Conn as a build-up for Dublin doesn't really make much sense.

Your currently weekly mileage is quite a nice base, but what is your longest weekly run? Have you run over ten miles any time recently?

I ran Conn in 2007 as my 3rd marathon. Yes, it's a bit tougher than Dublin, but a very enjoyable experience. In my opinion, you'd be better doing a first marathon in Dublin, with all of the support, and general buzz, it makes it easier. Concentrate on improving your speed over the coming weeks and months, and target a good half in Conn

MrCreosote

You might have a slightly higher chance of an injury with the 2 marathons, but the hardest thing would be running Connemara without having a time in mind.

Personally I wouldn't be able to do that- then I might get annoyed if I missed the time!

Pisco Sour

I'd stay clear of Connemara if I were you and stick with your original plan. Honestly, you'll have no problem getting through Dublin.

rom

Its not just the races but how they impact your training. For example there is normally 3 weeks taper and then 2/3 recovery which would include at least 1 week off. So it is 6 weeks where you are not building up training but trying to maintain/recovery. So 6 weeks by 2 is 3 months. If I was able to shorten those times personally I would do more than one marathon a year but you are working off 9 months training rather 10.5 months of training to improve then. A friend of mine si going to do 4 marathons next year after doing his first one DCM this year. I told him for a similar reason why it is a bad idea but he knows best.

Do the race series races is a very good idea. Similarly you say "a few 10ks in June/July". I personally would only do the race series races and have 2 good sessions a week and one long run (maybe every 2nd week have a longer one). If the end goal DCM then a session with marathon focus I would think would be better than racing 10K's every 2nd week at this stage. You have to think that your long runs will take a lot out of you and if you are going to be racing 10K's which will probably be on the weekend where most people do long runs when will you get time to do them.

statss

Thanks for the input all. Perhaps doing the full in Conn would be overkill at this stage.

It all depends on where you are now, what sort of time commitment you can put into it, and what your goals are. It sounds to me like you're way more motivated by the Dublin marathon, so from this point of view, running a harder marathon in Conn as a build-up for Dublin doesn't really make much sense.

Your currently weekly mileage is quite a nice base, but what is your longest weekly run? Have you run over ten miles any time recently?

My long run at the moment is usually 8-10 miles. I did 10 miles this week with relative comfort now that I have figured out to slow down. I take your point on board re doing Conn before Dublin.

Rom : The idea for a few 10ks in June/July was to keep me ticking over in "race mode". Your point about long runs being more beneficial for marathon training is something I have overlooked a tad so perhaps the race series and Athlone will be sufficient.

It's probably a mix of adrenaline and excitement now that I have done the HM and can do weekly long runs of 8-10 that has got me thinking about doing the full Conn. It's probably more sensible to take a step back and go with the original plan. I'll probably enjoy the year more aswell.

Thansk guys.

KielyUnusual

rom wrote: »

Its not just the races but how they impact your training. For example there is normally 3 weeks taper and then 2/3 recovery which would include at least 1 week off. So it is 6 weeks where you are not building up training but trying to maintain/recovery. So 6 weeks by 2 is 3 months. If I was able to shorten those times personally I would do more than one marathon a year but you are working off 9 months training rather 10.5 months of training to improve then. A friend of mine si going to do 4 marathons next year after doing his first one DCM this year. I told him for a similar reason why it is a bad idea but he knows best.

Do the race series races is a very good idea. Similarly you say "a few 10ks in June/July". I personally would only do the race series races and have 2 good sessions a week and one long run (maybe every 2nd week have a longer one). If the end goal DCM then a session with marathon focus I would think would be better than racing 10K's every 2nd week at this stage. You have to think that your long runs will take a lot out of you and if you are going to be racing 10K's which will probably be on the weekend where most people do long runs when will you get time to do them.

I concur with rom on this one. The race series is great preparation for the full marathon and doing one race a month is plenty to keep you motivated and give you a good indication of your fitness level. I would be building up my weekly run in sync with the race series so that I've run 4 or 5 miles longer than the race distance before each one. E.g. a long run of 11 miles before the 10k, 15 before the 10 mile etc. I haven't ran Connemara but I believe it's a very hilly course and quite a different race to Dublin so it might not be the best marathon to run if you just want experience over the distance. I'd run a few 10k's in this time period instead and try and build up a bit of speed before getting into marathon training proper in the summer. Best of luck.

Clearlier

Your goal is to to do DCM 2013 in less than 4h. You are already running 15 - 25mpw and you're planning on upping your training levels in January.

Why on earth are you considering following HH novice 2? I just had a quick look at it and it maxes out at 35 miles in a week.

For the stage that you are at I cannot recommend more highly that you get your hands on a copy of Advanced Marathoning. It has an 18 week schedule in the back which starts out at 33mpw and maxes out at 55mpw. You have loads of time to get yourself ready for that kind of schedule. IIRC they recommend that you be doing at least 25mpw with a comfortable long run of 12 before you start the plan.

I'd be absolutely astonished if you didn't break 4 hours comfortably. In fact given that you've gone 1h 45 for a half already and assuming that your training levels were something like 15 - 25mpw you'll go an awful lot faster that 4 hours if you can follow this schedule consistently.

The book explains the different types of runs that there are and the purpose of each of these runs. You'll come out of the whole process a much better runner and a much more confident runner.

I agree with those who have mentioned that you should target a 10k before you start the plan (although it's far from essential). The marathon plan itself has a few races in it. Only potential drawback for you is that it would mean not racing the marathon series although you could use them as training runs.

Edit: Agree that doing the Connemarathon would be ill advised!

statss

Clearlier wrote: »

Your goal is to to do DCM 2013 in less than 4h. You are already running 15 - 25mpw and you're planning on upping your training levels in January.

Why on earth are you considering following HH novice 2? I just had a quick look at it and it maxes out at 35 miles in a week.

For the stage that you are at I cannot recommend more highly that you get your hands on a copy of Advanced Marathoning. It has an 18 week schedule in the back which starts out at 33mpw and maxes out at 55mpw. You have loads of time to get yourself ready for that kind of schedule. IIRC they recommend that you be doing at least 25mpw with a comfortable long run of 12 before you start the plan.

I'd be absolutely astonished if you didn't break 4 hours comfortably. In fact given that you've gone 1h 45 for a half already and assuming that your training levels were something like 15 - 25mpw you'll go an awful lot faster that 4 hours if you can follow this schedule consistently.

The book explains the different types of runs that there are and the purpose of each of these runs. You'll come out of the whole process a much better runner and a much more confident runner.

I agree with those who have mentioned that you should target a 10k before you start the plan (although it's far from essential). The marathon plan itself has a few races in it. Only potential drawback for you is that it would mean not racing the marathon series although you could use them as training runs.

Edit: Agree that doing the Connemarathon would be ill advised!

Hey thanks for the input. I'll grab a copy. Really I'm only running 8 months hence why I still consider myself a novice. The MacMillan calculator has me at about 3.40 for a full marathon so I was thinking under 4 hours was a decent arbitrary goal to aim for. Being ambitious I would love to get in under 3.30, (as thats the standard a couple of my mates are at) but as I say, it's ambitious considering I've yet to run a full one. Food for thought.

Clearlier

statss wrote: »

Hey thanks for the input. I'll grab a copy. Really I'm only running 8 months hence why I still consider myself a novice. The MacMillan calculator has me at about 3.40 for a full marathon so I was thinking under 4 hours was a decent arbitrary goal to aim for. Being ambitious I would love to get in under 3.30, (as thats the standard a couple of my mates are at) but as I say, it's ambitious considering I've yet to run a full one. Food for thought.

Although it was your time goal that prompted me to be a little more blunt that I usually am I don't think that you should worry too much about time for the moment. Instead concentrate on your training.

Consistent mediocre training for 6 months beats great training for 3 months followed by an injury for 3 months so while you should train hard and well you shouldn't push to your limits at this stage. Finish every run with at least a little bit left in the tank and start every run slowly.

If you train consistently and follow a good plan that develops your aerobic capacity you'll exceed your dreams come October 2013.

Good luck!

statss

Clearlier wrote: »

Although it was your time goal that prompted me to be a little more blunt that I usually am I don't think that you should worry too much about time for the moment. Instead concentrate on your training.

Consistent mediocre training for 6 months beats great training for 3 months followed by an injury for 3 months so while you should train hard and well you shouldn't push to your limits at this stage. Finish every run with at least a little bit left in the tank and start every run slowly.

If you train consistently and follow a good plan that develops your aerobic capacity you'll exceed your dreams come October 2013.

Good luck!

Cheers. Picked up the book at lunch today.

Colonialboy

If I were you Id do Connemara , its great FUN.... remember that... FUN.. I trust its part of the reason you have taken up athletics.

your half-marathon time has you well set for Conne, dont set yourself a time just go for it, you have plenty time to recover for Dublin...
1.45 is a fine time considering your only at it 8 months.

besides consider what if you picked up an injury in the summer and couldnt do DCM and hadnt bothered with Conne , or is Jan 2014 you got injured and had to wait 3 years todo a conne.

I think if your feeling fit, keep training thru the winter you will be grand for Conne . Just dont set yourself a crazy target or push yourself too hard to the point of fatigue or injury.

ASIMON0V

I would have to agree with colonial boy. connemarathon is a bit special - I did Connemara as my first in 2009 and it was a fantastic experience - it's a great buzz being one of hundreds rather than thousands and because there is the hill you get to toe the line under no pressure to hit a time or follow pacers or anything like that.

I had planned to run Dublin as my second, and after a summer of road races I got injured with four weeks to go. I was devestated, but ran Florence four weeks after the october bank holiday weekend and broke sub 3.

It's hard to argue with the do one and do it properly train of thought, but back then I needed the motivation of a marathon to get out the door - I am back to doing one a year now ;-)

For what it's worth here is my training log from that time.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055484825?page=1#post_58974011

statss

thanks guys.....it's a tough one! I'll be doing it with two friends, one who is doing the full, the other is doing the half....I see from the website I can change races up to 1st March....Hmmm....will mull it over for a few days before starting back training after Stephens Day....

Will read your log with interest asimonov, I'm thinking of starting one myself...

3D2S

Hiya, I did Connemara last year and thoroughly enjoyed it. I didn't do it for a time, set out at comfortable pace and found I was well able for the more hilly 2nd half. First half is quite stunning, second half is about completion and having the stamina to set up those hills. Great sense of achievement at the end, would highly recommend it.

statss

Okay, I've decided. Going to stick with original plan but upgrade my training plan for Conn half to HH intermediate plan, then follow that with the "up to 55miles 18 week" P & D plan for Dublin. Thanks for all the advice. Let the fun begin.

Found the Advanced marathon book fantastic by the way...really cleared up a multitude of questions and provided me with solid stretching and strength routines...which I have only been doing without much structure up till now.