Another General Election early 2013 to cut the current rot

WeNeed Another General Election

I voted labour in the last GE and would rather not have to wait another 2 years to see fine gael and labour banished from government. I do realise that doesn't leave a lot of options but I'm convinced there has to be some way of forming a government that will stand up for it's people and deliver value for their extortionate wage packets.

Who's with me?

Sully

Not me. Things are actually looking up for Ireland under this government, regardless of their tough budgets which advanced warning was given.

Just because you are unhappy doesn't mean you can call for a snap election. That is why we have elections every four years or so - so you can boot out those you dislike.

WeNeed Another General Election

Sully wrote: »

Not me. Things are actually looking up for Ireland under this government, regardless of their tough budgets which advanced warning was given.

Just because you are unhappy doesn't mean you can call for a snap election. That is why we have elections every four years or so - so you can boot out those you dislike.

looking up :eek: from where I'm standing we still haven't hit rock bottom yet

elections every 4 years are great but in exceptional circumstances, like 2 years ago when we all came together to throw fianna fail out, the will of the majority of the people will eventually bring the government down if needs be.

i'm just entertaining the thought that their days may well be numbered. if you look at the whole picture including such sh1te as Enda winning person of the year, or it's not your fault, it was all our own doing, an awful lot of the Irish people are becoming increasing annoyed being pissed on and told it's raining! :mad::mad:

oscarBravo

WeNeed Another General Election wrote: »

...there has to be some way of forming a government that will stand up for it's people...

With a concrete, detail-oriented, razor-sharp manifesto like that, I'm sure an absolute majority is in the offing. Where do I sign up?

Sully

WeNeed Another General Election wrote: »

looking up :eek: from where I'm standing we still haven't hit rock bottom yet

Well your not standing in the right place so. I'd shuffle a bit to the right and you should see a clearer picture of how our economy is slowly starting to pick up. Meeting bailout terms, looking set to exit the bailout agreement next year, getting budgets passed comfortably, good tax intake overall, considerable increase in jobs, low yields on bonds on return to the bond market for the first time including some of our banks returning to the bond market, and so on.

elections every 4 years are great but in exceptional circumstances, like 2 years ago when we all came together to throw fianna fail out, the will of the majority of the people will eventually bring the government down if needs be.

i'm just entertaining the thought that their days may well be numbered. if you look at the whole picture including such sh1te as Enda winning person of the year, or it's not your fault, it was all our own doing, an awful lot of the Irish people are becoming increasing annoyed being pissed on and told it's raining! :mad::mad:

What exceptional circumstances? A cut in the carers respite allowance and child benefit? The budgets have been tough, no doubt, but Ireland still remains a wealthy happy country with a positive outlook and is moving towards recovery at a very healthy pace. There isn't a huge crisis in Ireland. Its just tough economic times that regardless of who we elect, will still be there.

Plus, at least the Fine Gael Manifesto, the Irish people were well warned that the future wasn't going to be a ride in the park with sweets and fizzy drinks for all. Kenny & Co repeated umpteen times the next few budgets were going to be really tough and a number of the policies and cuts were forewarned. Labour just said they wouldn't bring in those cuts so they could stop a FG overall majority. They managed to block the overall majority but implemented these cuts anyway.

The government still holds a very comfortable majority with what, three TDs deflecting who are still voting with the government in most votes? We are in a much better position now than we were what, two years ago? Their days are far from numbered.

The Waltzing Consumer

WeNeed Another General Election wrote: »

l
elections every 4 years are great but in exceptional circumstances, like 2 years ago when we all came together to throw fianna fail out, the will of the majority of the people will eventually bring the government down if needs be.

i'm just entertaining the thought that their days may well be numbered. if you look at the whole picture including such sh1te as Enda winning person of the year, or it's not your fault, it was all our own doing, an awful lot of the Irish people are becoming increasing annoyed being pissed on and told it's raining! :mad::mad:

So of all the things you could have chosen as the reason for the majority of people to seek an election, you chose Enda Kenny winning a person of the year award??? Great argument there

Anyway, I am pretty sick of people trying to speak for the majority without any evidence that they do. This "I am angry" so therefore "everone is angry with me" is not a fact.

So along with what other posters above have said:
1 Meeting bailout terms
2) Looking set to exit the bailout agreement next year
3) getting budgets passed comfortably, good tax intake overall
4) considerable increase in jobs
5) low yields on bonds on return to the bond market for the first time including some of our banks returning to the bond market

Lets look at some of the other figures:
6) Fiscal Compact Referendum: Passed with 60.3% of the Vote
7) Children's Referendum: Passed with 58% of the Vote
8) As of 4th December: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1204/breaking15.html
1, 112,521 out of 1.6 million homes have registered for the household charge, giving a clear mandate for this charge.

As for people being increasingly annoyed?
Yes the respite care grant was the big cut which generated the most controversy in the Budget.
http://www.thescore.ie/leinster-house-protest-respite-care-grant-706589-Dec2012/
Out of 77,000 families which receive this payment, 100 protested. Thats not even 1% of the total, that's 0.12%.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/property-tax-protesters-march-on-dail-3326610.html
200 hundred people marched regarding the property tax. So thats 200 people out of 1.6 million homes. I think you can guess that that's not a majority.

And anti-austerity protests?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1124/anti-austerity-protest-to-take-place-in-dublin.html
10,000 at the protest organised by the council of trade unions. Again, 10,000 people out of how many million in Ireland????

Now, I have no problem in people protesting, I think it is great, but I simply think it is naive to try and steal the "majority" opinion and pretend such small small numbers at all these examples and many more protests is indicative of the entire population, or even the smallest majority. It ain't.

WeNeed Another General Election

ok so lads, provided everything pans out the way ye reckon, it will be grand

phew that was a close one

Sully

WeNeed Another General Election wrote: »

ok so lads, provided everything pans out the way ye reckon, it will be grand

phew that was a close one

If that's your best response to us amateurs, avoid politics.

charlemont

Who else could we vote for ?

I usually vote a mix of FG LB SF but I think SF are trying too hard to woo FF votes and the party seems to have lost it edge and is becoming another anti-everything group. Ireland needs progress not protest.

Labour Hmm What can I say I think they have done OK as they are only a junior party so therefore they cannot deliver on all their promises, I generally like their politicians as opposed to the arrogance of the previous FF government.

I honestly don't think FG have done enough to change the system and cut waste, Its understandable that they don't want to alienate voters that would suffer from example scrapping quango's. But that's not good enough for the rest of us. I think Enda is a good person but I doubt he has as strong a grip on his party as say Bertie had, But out of the rest of them he will have to do, At least he shows respect to his position unlike Cowen who was a slob.

Fianna Fáil and independents, No just simply No..

Cookie_Monster

charlemont wrote: »

Who else could we vote for ?

exactly. the current lot are terrible IMO, but FF and SF are worse again and would undoubtedly get a few more seats if it happened tomorrow.

The only government I'd actually bother voting for any more in Ireland would be a federal EU one, the locals have spent near 100 years proving they can't govern the country in a mature, sensible way.

NIMAN

If there was an election campaign starting in the morning, we would have every party promise us the moon and the stars, then renege on most of the promises once they are in power.

Thats what political parties do. Get used to it.

Plus, its not as if we are blessed with a great choice of who to vote for at present. I think its a little too early for the Shinners to get any sort of power just yet. And you'd hardly vote for FF again, would you? Would you?

Thomas_I

WeNeed Another General Election wrote: »

I voted labour in the last GE and would rather not have to wait another 2 years to see fine gael and labour banished from government. I do realise that doesn't leave a lot of options but I'm convinced there has to be some way of forming a government that will stand up for it's people and deliver value for their extortionate wage packets.

Who's with me?

Your suggestions are no way to have a stable government if one would hire and fire governments by prematurely elections every two years or when it suites them, because they´re fed up by necessary means.

Ireland is still better off than other European countries within the EU, it´s at least not in such a situation like Greece and you could be happy with that.

Sierra Oscar

I think there is a growing possibility of a General Election during 2013. Either way it would not surprise me if there was a GE before or around the local elections in June 2014. Labour could very easily lose half of their council seats and that would be a disaster for the organisation.

Sully

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I think there is a growing possibility of a General Election during 2013. Either way it would not surprise me if there was a GE before or around the local elections in June 2014. Labour could very easily lose half of their council seats and that would be a disaster for the organisation.

I don't think Labour will ditch government that quickly. They hold a fairly steady majority, and it appears the worst is over in terms of budgets. If they can get a deal on the bank debt, exit the bailout agreement and get back to the bond markets at comfortable rates - it will be a huge help to steady the ship.

I cant see the local elections knocking the government sideways. It might change things, but I can't see either party wanting to quit.

SafeSurfer

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

So of all the things you could have chosen as the reason for the majority of people to seek an election, you chose Enda Kenny winning a person of the year award??? Great argument there

Anyway, I am pretty sick of people trying to speak for the majority without any evidence that they do. This "I am angry" so therefore "everone is angry with me" is not a fact.

So along with what other posters above have said:
1 Meeting bailout terms
2) Looking set to exit the bailout agreement next year
3) getting budgets passed comfortably, good tax intake overall
4) considerable increase in jobs
5) low yields on bonds on return to the bond market for the first time including some of our banks returning to the bond market

Lets look at some of the other figures:
6) Fiscal Compact Referendum: Passed with 60.3% of the Vote
7) Children's Referendum: Passed with 58% of the Vote
8) As of 4th December: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1204/breaking15.html
1, 112,521 out of 1.6 million homes have registered for the household charge, giving a clear mandate for this charge.

As for people being increasingly annoyed?
Yes the respite care grant was the big cut which generated the most controversy in the Budget.
http://www.thescore.ie/leinster-house-protest-respite-care-grant-706589-Dec2012/
Out of 77,000 families which receive this payment, 100 protested. Thats not even 1% of the total, that's 0.12%.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/property-tax-protesters-march-on-dail-3326610.html
200 hundred people marched regarding the property tax. So thats 200 people out of 1.6 million homes. I think you can guess that that's not a majority.

And anti-austerity protests?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1124/anti-austerity-protest-to-take-place-in-dublin.html
10,000 at the protest organised by the council of trade unions. Again, 10,000 people out of how many million in Ireland????

Now, I have no problem in people protesting, I think it is great, but I simply think it is naive to try and steal the "majority" opinion and pretend such small small numbers at all these examples and many more protests is indicative of the entire population, or even the smallest majority. It ain't.

While your points are valid it is only fair to point out that the turnout for the Fiscal compact treaty was 50.6% and for the Children's Referendum 32%, so neither of these were passed by a "majority" of the electorate either.

WeNeed Another General Election

Fine Gael & Labour, a great bunch a lads

Sully

I think you need to locate yourself a blog because your offering nothing constructive for the debate you started. I assumed you expected widespread support, but didn't get it and don't know what to offer next.

WeNeed Another General Election

Sully wrote: »

I think you need to locate yourself a blog because your offering nothing constructive for the debate you started. I assumed you expected widespread support, but didn't get it and don't know what to offer next.

well it does baffle me as to why we still haven't seen the majority start getting behind this as I think it is coming. I'm reading between the lines with a lot of political pushing and shoving going on at the moment and spotting rising signs of the fianna fail exit.

So, I suppose you're right, I don't really know what to offer next because it's not like people don't know how tough life is in Ireland for hundreds and thousands of people right now this minute yet even as we face into what will be another sh1te Christmas for some, those who are ok will just keep the head down because they're ok.

This government will never do anything to really suit us and to sit around watching them clock up another 2 years of savage pensions is just stupid. Cut the rot now and let the next crowd be under no illusion they better start playing hardball with sorting things out for once and for all. There are an awful lot of problems but as one of the Kennedys once said, they're all man made problems so can be fixed by man.

Is it too much to ask for an end to bull**** politics in 2013??

Sully

I wouldn't take a huge amount of the media exaggeration into what apparently happens behind closed doors. Labour have TDs dropping like flies because they have completely abandoned their pre-election promises and policies. I don't think there is any appetite for a general election in Ireland at the moment tbh.

Already this government have done enough to pull Ireland forward in a positive way (for the economy) so its not like things are going backwards. Its not like they are sitting back and letting Ireland go into a black hole / crisis. They are fixing the problems. You also need to remember regardless of who we elect, its going to be more of the same more or less. We are tied into obligations and the only opposition left (Sinn Fein) is in government in the North of Ireland sticking to agreements and implementing tough austerity, property taxes and so on.

Its tough times for everyone. No easy way out.

Political pensions have already taken a hit.

The Waltzing Consumer

WeNeed Another General Election wrote: »

well it does baffle me as to why we still haven't seen the majority start getting behind this as I think it is coming. I'm reading between the lines with a lot of political pushing and shoving going on at the moment and spotting rising signs of the fianna fail exit.

So, I suppose you're right, I don't really know what to offer next because it's not like people don't know how tough life is in Ireland for hundreds and thousands of people right now this minute yet even as we face into what will be another sh1te Christmas for some, those who are ok will just keep the head down because they're ok.

This government will never do anything to really suit us and to sit around watching them clock up another 2 years of savage pensions is just stupid. Cut the rot now and let the next crowd be under no illusion they better start playing hardball with sorting things out for once and for all. There are an awful lot of problems but as one of the Kennedys once said, they're all man made problems so can be fixed by man.

Is it too much to ask for an end to bull**** politics in 2013??

Is it too much to ask for an end to bull**** in 2013? No it's not too much, let's start with ourselves.

Care to comment about:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056838276

I don't think I would have too much confidence in your criticism of our Government if you think we are in the UK and that the massacre of Dunblane has been covered up by the UK government for at least 100 years.

rufty

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

So of all the things you could have chosen as the reason for the majority of people to seek an election, you chose Enda Kenny winning a person of the year award??? Great argument there

Anyway, I am pretty sick of people trying to speak for the majority without any evidence that they do. This "I am angry" so therefore "everone is angry with me" is not a fact.

So along with what other posters above have said:
1) Meeting bailout terms
2) Looking set to exit the bailout agreement next year
3) getting budgets passed comfortably, good tax intake overall
4) considerable increase in jobs
5) low yields on bonds on return to the bond market for the first time including some of our banks returning to the bond market

Lets look at some of the other figures:
6) Fiscal Compact Referendum: Passed with 60.3% of the Vote
7) Children's Referendum: Passed with 58% of the Vote
8) As of 4th December: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1204/breaking15.html
1, 112,521 out of 1.6 million homes have registered for the household charge, giving a clear mandate for this charge.

As for people being increasingly annoyed?
Yes the respite care grant was the big cut which generated the most controversy in the Budget.
http://www.thescore.ie/leinster-house-protest-respite-care-grant-706589-Dec2012/
Out of 77,000 families which receive this payment, 100 protested. Thats not even 1% of the total, that's 0.12%.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/property-tax-protesters-march-on-dail-3326610.html
200 hundred people marched regarding the property tax. So thats 200 people out of 1.6 million homes. I think you can guess that that's not a majority.

And anti-austerity protests?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1124/anti-austerity-protest-to-take-place-in-dublin.html
10,000 at the protest organised by the council of trade unions. Again, 10,000 people out of how many million in Ireland????

Now, I have no problem in people protesting, I think it is great, but I simply think it is naive to try and steal the "majority" opinion and pretend such small small numbers at all these examples and many more protests is indicative of the entire population, or even the smallest majority. It ain't.

1. Is good however it's the manner in which they are meeting those (respite care cuts, property tax, etc) that has people angry. (And don't spin the line that the Government were forced into any of these. The Memorandum of Understanding clearly states that they can interchange policies of equal value to the economy)
2. Much the same as the above.
3. Budgets are getting passed because of the massive majority they have in the Dáil and even then they've lost the support of 5 Labour TD's in the process. Seanad wasn't as comfortable as the Government would like either!
4. Plainly untrue, unemployment has risen under this Government. Check the stats.
5. This is mainly due to actions taken by the EC and the ECB along with bailout targets. Not exactly 100% Government work but a positive step none the less.
6. Not a referendum on the Government, was supported by the largest opposition party.
7. Not a referendum on the Government, was supported by all opposition parties.
8. People are registering to pay out of fear of going to jail if they don't, not exactly a ringing endorsement.

As for your other points, respite care givers are need to care 24/7, they can't drop everything and rush off to a protest.
A lot more than 200 people have protested with many protesting locally at council offices all over the country. Again a 30% of the population openly refusing to pay a tax (for which there are serious criminal repercussions) is sizeable, defiant opposition. Imagine if 30% of people refused to pay income tax!!!
In the grand scheme of Ireland, 10,000 is considered a large protest. Take it in context, there were about 2,000 pro-life supporters that marched on the Dáil. Also, consider that it was a Monday and was specificly organized by the Dublin Council of Trade Unions which again narrows the pool of people that could turn out for same.

Flimsy support but for clarity's sake I have to ask if you are a member of FG by any chance?

The Waltzing Consumer

rufty wrote: »

1. Is good however it's the manner in which they are meeting those (respite care cuts, property tax, etc) that has people angry. (And don't spin the line that the Government were forced into any of these. The Memorandum of Understanding clearly states that they can interchange policies of equal value to the economy)
2. Much the same as the above.
3. Budgets are getting passed because of the massive majority they have in the Dáil and even then they've lost the support of 5 Labour TD's in the process. Seanad wasn't as comfortable as the Government would like either!
4. Plainly untrue, unemployment has risen under this Government. Check the stats.
5. This is mainly due to actions taken by the EC and the ECB along with bailout targets. Not exactly 100% Government work but a positive step none the less.
6. Not a referendum on the Government, was supported by the largest opposition party.
7. Not a referendum on the Government, was supported by all opposition parties.
8. People are registering to pay out of fear of going to jail if they don't, not exactly a ringing endorsement.

As for your other points, respite care givers are need to care 24/7, they can't drop everything and rush off to a protest.
A lot more than 200 people have protested with many protesting locally at council offices all over the country. Again a 30% of the population openly refusing to pay a tax (for which there are serious criminal repercussions) is sizeable, defiant opposition. Imagine if 30% of people refused to pay income tax!!!
In the grand scheme of Ireland, 10,000 is considered a large protest. Take it in context, there were about 2,000 pro-life supporters that marched on the Dáil. Also, consider that it was a Monday and was specificly organized by the Dublin Council of Trade Unions which again narrows the pool of people that could turn out for same.

Flimsy support but for clarity's sake I have to ask if you are a member of FG by any chance?

1+2) Fair enough but reduction in spending is always going to hit some part of our population, no one likes cuts so anger is expected.
3) I agree, they have a massive majority, thats their mandate.
4) Plainly untrue? Eh, did you see any poster claim unemployment went down under this Government when comparing to previous Governments? Nope, you didn't. The point is jobs are being created so that is a good thing, no?
5) True, a positive step.

As for 6,7 and 8. Sorry Rufty, you cannot argue that two referendum are not judgements on the present Government and then argue the other points based on nothing but your opinion i.e. people paying household charge out of fear...carers don't have time to protest...30% are refusing to pay charge...are somehow judgements on Government. The only thing we can take from each of those points is we both will have our opinions.

As for being a member of FG, nope I am not, never have been. I would have voted for TDs in Government and in Opposition in the last General Election.