Learning two languages together.

Scioch

In college and doing java, getting through it just fine and having no major difficulty. I could possibly soldier on ahead of course material but I find doing stuff at the pace of the course better to understand things but at the same time its hard to find the motivation to rehash stuff you are sure you know so I dont do any extracurricular stuff.

A thought popped into my head today, could I possibly start studying a second language along with java ? Would something like C be similar enough to compound the concepts I'm learning in java while providing that extra motivation to go over stuff I've already done ?

Or would differences in the languages confuse me and be detrimental to learning java ?

zom

All modern programing languages are build similar way (compare to 80s and 90s) so there should be not a problem to learn 2 at the same time. But from my experience, I would advice to focus on one you most into (java i presume). Use all energy to dig and extend everything what you are learning at the moment to get as much as possible from this study. And when you finish, it will be much easier to go into another language.

Mmmm_Lemony

In the early stages of delivery especially in college, C# is almost identical to Java so you will be happy to know you ARE learning 2 languages at the same time.

in b4 the languages war

Scioch

Mmmm_Lemony wrote: »

In the early stages of delivery especially in college, C# is almost identical to Java so you will be happy to know you ARE learning 2 languages at the same time.

in b4 the languages war

Well that was easy. :pac:

jimmycrackcorm

Stick to one language. Languages are actually not the problem - its the libraries that take up all the learning.

ChRoMe

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Stick to one language. Languages are actually not the problem - its the libraries that take up all the learning.

True, but just to add to that, dont spend time learning API's off by heart.

GreeBo

Are you learning java or learning OO through java?

You could look at another family of programming (functional for example) but if you are just getting to grips with OO it could just melt your head.

Scioch

GreeBo wrote: »

Are you learning java or learning OO through java?

You could look at another family of programming (functional for example) but if you are just getting to grips with OO it could just melt your head.

Learning java as far as I know. We have gone through data types, loops, strings, arrays, methods. Havent done anything about object orientation but I see it on the syllabus so we will get to that at some stage.

Its just down as programming in relation to the course, next year its down as object orientated programming with database and visual programming. So I'm assuming this year its just about getting to grips with programming with java without delving too deep into anything else.

GreeBo

in that case, personally I would just stick with the language they are teaching you.
Nothing to stop you doing your own things with Java though.

You run the risk of really confusing yourself if you start mixing concepts before you understand them fully imo.

jgh_

Scioch wrote: »

In college and doing java, getting through it just fine and having no major difficulty. I could possibly soldier on ahead of course material but I find doing stuff at the pace of the course better to understand things but at the same time its hard to find the motivation to rehash stuff you are sure you know so I dont do any extracurricular stuff.

A thought popped into my head today, could I possibly start studying a second language along with java ? Would something like C be similar enough to compound the concepts I'm learning in java while providing that extra motivation to go over stuff I've already done ?

Or would differences in the languages confuse me and be detrimental to learning java ?

C is very different from java despite the syntactic similarities. That doesn't mean don't learn it, just be aware that it's a different animal.

If you are comfortable with the concepts of memory management and pointers I would suggest you take some time to learn C, because I think it could be beneficial to the way you think about approaching problems in other languages like java. It's also nice to experience another language because you might find that its philosophy and niches are more interesting to you, or you might discover it's something you want to avoid, which is good too.

If you are comfortable with your abilities in java and are looking for another challenge, I would say absolutely do it. I don't think that you would confuse yourself.


I should follow this up by saying that C is NOT an object-oriented language (unless you are desperately trying to avoid C++) as Java is. Arrays are very different in C, but at there same time C is a much simpler language than Java.

ChRoMe

GreeBo wrote: »

You run the risk of really confusing yourself if you start mixing concepts before you understand them fully imo.

QFT

jgh_

ChRoMe wrote: »

QFT

Yeah I think if he's only just started this stuff (as I've gathered from reading some of the later posts now ) he should hold off for a while

RealistSpy

Started with java then C# basically learning OO now I am playing around with Erlang. I believe it's all about the experience.

GreeBo

^
If you started with Java why are you only learning OO now via Erlang?

Fad

GreeBo wrote: »

^
If you started with Java why are you only learning OO now via Erlang?

I think he/she just forgot to put a comma in...

moycullen14

Scioch wrote: »

In college and doing java, getting through it just fine and having no major difficulty. I could possibly soldier on ahead of course material but I find doing stuff at the pace of the course better to understand things but at the same time its hard to find the motivation to rehash stuff you are sure you know so I dont do any extracurricular stuff.

A thought popped into my head today, could I possibly start studying a second language along with java ? Would something like C be similar enough to compound the concepts I'm learning in java while providing that extra motivation to go over stuff I've already done ?

Or would differences in the languages confuse me and be detrimental to learning java ?

There's probably no need. Java is the best language for almost every task and provides the most jobs/opportunities.

GreeBo

moycullen14 wrote: »

There's probably no need. Java is the best language for almost every task and provides the most jobs/opportunities.

Eek!

ChRoMe

GreeBo wrote: »

Eek!

In fairness, it is a pretty flexible language.

GreeBo

ChRoMe wrote: »

In fairness, it is a pretty flexible language.

indeed, it can kinda be used for anything, if you can code it Java can do it, but should you code it in Java always? i would say no.

ChRoMe

GreeBo wrote: »

indeed, it can kinda be used for anything, if you can code it Java can do it, but should you code it in Java always? i would say no.

Of course, I'd imagine this is a case of "when you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

moycullen14

ChRoMe wrote: »

Of course, I'd imagine this is a case of "when you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

OK, i'll admit it is a bit of a troll, but it does have a grain of truth.

If you know java inside and out - especially libraries & frameworks - it will get you a long way - probably further than any other single language.

An ORM like hibernate allows (encourages/forces) you to view RDBMS from a java view point, removing the necessit for that particular language/skill.

ant/maven remove a lot of tedious scripting.

spring/struts allow a decent stab at front end/mvc.

All java based.

Same can't be said for other languages. None has the infrastructure that java has.

SilverScreen

As an undergrad it's best to stick to one language and focus on learning it inside-out. Java is a great language to learn as an undergrad as you can pick up the concepts of OO programming quite easily with it and there's a lot you can do with Java as well. When you eventually get Java embedded into your brain it's not too difficult to get into other OO languages such as Objective-C and C#.

ChRoMe

moycullen14 wrote: »

OK, i'll admit it is a bit of a troll, but it does have a grain of truth.

If you know java inside and out - especially libraries & frameworks - it will get you a long way - probably further than any other single language.

An ORM like hibernate allows (encourages/forces) you to view RDBMS from a java view point, removing the necessit for that particular language/skill.

ant/maven remove a lot of tedious scripting.

spring/struts allow a decent stab at front end/mvc.

All java based.

Same can't be said for other languages. None has the infrastructure that java has.

C#

Colonel Panic

"Java is all I know, so there's nothing else as good as it."

moycullen14

Colonel Panic wrote: »

"Java is all I know, so there's nothing else as good as it."

Ah, you can't say that. Maybe you should try and learn a few more languages and systems and develop some worthwhile applications then you will be in a better position to comment.

ChRoMe

moycullen14 wrote: »

Ah, you can't say that. Maybe you should try and learn a few more languages and systems and develop some worthwhile applications then you will be in a better position to comment.

That "whoosh" sound, was the point flying over your head

moycullen14

ChRoMe wrote: »

That "whoosh" sound, was the point flying over your head

Oh, he was being sarcastic, now I get it. Thanks!:)

IRLConor

moycullen14 wrote: »

An ORM like hibernate allows (encourages/forces) you to view RDBMS from a java view point, removing the necessit for that particular language/skill.

That's not a good thing.

1. The relational model isn't hard to understand - most competent coders can grasp the basics of it in an afternoon.
2. The query language isn't hard to learn - most competent coders can pick it up in an hour or two with a decent manual.
   
   and most importantly:
   
   
3. If you're using an RDBMS as an object store you're doing it wrong.

moycullen14 wrote: »

ant/maven remove a lot of tedious scripting.

Scripting a build process that doesn't even exist in many other popular languages. Granted, it's much more sane than make and autotools, but being better than those is no big achievement.

moycullen14 wrote: »

spring/struts allow a decent stab at front end/mvc.

*snort* Even Zend Framework is more fun to use than those!

moycullen14 wrote: »

Same can't be said for other languages. None has the infrastructure that java has.

Ah heyor. Of the languages I know, at least Perl, Python and Ruby have infrastructure comparable to Java. There are plenty of other contenders for that title but I'll leave that to people who know them better.

I like Java but it's not a Swiss Army knife, never mind a Swiss Army chainsaw. It can be used for damn near everything but in many scenarios there are much better choices.

GreeBo

IRLConor wrote: »

That's not a good thing.

1. The relational model isn't hard to understand - most competent coders can grasp the basics of it in an afternoon.
2. The query language isn't hard to learn - most competent coders can pick it up in an hour or two with a decent manual.
   
   and most importantly:
   
   
3. If you're using an RDBMS as an object store you're doing it wrong.

While I understand your point completely, it really depends on what you are doing.
Stupid CRUD (possibly internal) app with no performance requirments, let the ORM handle you domain objects, who really cares what the DB looks like.

Reporting/BI solution that has a strict SLA? well then you need to know exactly how your RDMS is organised (so you can denormalise it to get the performance you need )