Would a new political party for Kerry be viable?

YoungIreland

I ask because it is clear that Kerry has not been given its fair share of economic opportunities in the last 10-15 years. The rate of population growth in the 2011 Census was slower than in any other county. The IDA has not attracted investment into the county for well over a decade. And now it looks as if the Shannon LNG is going to follow the path of the GPCE into oblivion. It is clear that a new party needs to be formed to champion the interests of the county and to campaign for increased control over our own destinies. So does anyone think that such a party would work?

tony007

YoungIreland wrote: »

I ask because it is clear that Kerry has not been given its fair share of economic opportunities in the last 10-15 years. The rate of population growth in the 2011 Census was slower than in any other county. The IDA has not attracted investment into the county for well over a decade. And now it looks as if the Shannon LNG is going to follow the path of the GPCE into oblivion. It is clear that a new party needs to be formed to champion the interests of the county and to campaign for increased control over our own destinies. So does anyone think that such a party would work?

When you vote in people like JHR and MHR what do you expect?
When I hear of the youth of Kerry emigrating I'd like to ask their parents who they voted for.

YoungIreland

tony007 wrote: »

When you vote in people like JHR and MHR what do you expect?
When I hear of the youth of Kerry emigrating I'd like to ask their parents who they voted for.

Whatever you may think about the Healy-Rae's, at least they have done something for the county, compared to the other politicians. Even then, that is woefully inadequate.

shanered

Still a fair enough point.
But I think most the country are wondering why the hell who is in power is in power.
Double edged sword.
Its said you deserve the politicians you vote in, but I seem never to be voting for any of the guys that I end up with.
Democracy sucks when your in the minority.
Especially when the majority vote in these pack of self serving gobsh*tes

YoungIreland

shanered wrote: »

Still a fair enough point.
But I think most the country are wondering why the hell who is in power is in power.
Double edged sword.
Its said you deserve the politicians you vote in, but I seem never to be voting for any of the guys that I end up with.
Democracy sucks when your in the minority.
Especially when the majority vote in these pack of self serving gobsh*tes

Which is exactly where a new political party might shake things up.

mickdw

But if you set up a Kerry party, you will only get a couple of seats in Kerry at best. I don't see the benefit.

YoungIreland

mickdw wrote: »

But if you set up a Kerry party, you will only get a couple of seats in Kerry at best. I don't see the benefit.

Even with a couple of seats, one can get into coalition, especially with proportional representation. If there were an interest in setting up parties in other counties, the Kerry party could make an electoral pact with them.

And it has been done before on a smaller scale. Look at the Letterkenny Residents Party. The SKIA nearly took a Dail seat last time out. If the time and effort was put into such a party, it is very possible that such a party could get several council seats, if not be challenging for a seat in the Dail.

leedslad

YoungIreland wrote: »

I ask because it is clear that Kerry has not been given its fair share of economic opportunities in the last 10-15 years. The rate of population growth in the 2011 Census was slower than in any other county. The IDA has not attracted investment into the county for well over a decade. And now it looks as if the Shannon LNG is going to follow the path of the GPCE into oblivion. It is clear that a new party needs to be formed to champion the interests of the county and to campaign for increased control over our own destinies. So does anyone think that such a party would work?

Have ye forgotten already about the magnificent sports complex that O'Donoghue built for ye down there?

YoungIreland

leedslad wrote: »

Have ye forgotten already about the magnificent sports complex that O'Donoghue built for ye down there?

Killarney is not doing too badly, but look at the rest of the county, especially the north and you will instantly see that things are not great at all.

68Murph68

tony007 wrote: »

When you vote in people like JHR and MHR what do you expect?
When I hear of the youth of Kerry emigrating I'd like to ask their parents who they voted for.

+1

The election of the Healy-Raes sends out a terrible PR message as regards trying to attract outside investment to Kerry.

In terms of a new Kerry party I seriously doubt there is any potential whatsoever.

Currently you have two "independent" FF TDs and one FG TD in Kerry South and one SF, one L and one FG in Kerry North. Given the fact that Kerry is likely to be a 5 seater next time out, I find it very hard to see a new party having any sort of impact. While there is technically 2 independents there,
both Fleming and Healy-Rae would be regarded as pretty much FF in all but name.

As against that Mick Gleeson in South Kerry Independent Alliance SKIA did very well last time out coming ahead of the Labour candidate and coming ahead of John O'Donohgue. It would have been very interesting to see how things would had played out if Tom Sheahan had been eliminated before him.
There was 200 odd votes in the difference between the two and Gleeson would surely have picked up a huge chunk of Sheahan's transfers (especially on geographic grounds) However I seriously doubt Gleeson will be a candidate in 2016 and a huge chunk of his vote would have been a personal vote as opposed to an ideological vote. While he didnt have a party machine behind him he had a very solid background in terms of local level politics having served on both Kerry County Council and Killarney Urban District Council.

If I had to guess at the likely candidates next time out will be all six current TDs

Michael Healy Rae
Brendan Griffin
Tom Flemming
Arthur Spring
Jimmy Deenihan
Martin Ferris (possibly might hand this off to the daughter)

All of the following seem likely to be running as well

Tom McEllistrim - was supposedly canvassing in Killarney recently :eek:
Marie Moloney - was appointed to the Senate and should be boosted by Gleeson likely not to be running
John O'Donoghue - This is my swimming pool. :eek:

A few more are likely to come out of the woodwork as well.

A key factor will be what happens in terms of an official FF candidate. I find it hard to see official FF selecting John O'Donoghue which would mean that there could be 3 unofficial Fianna Fail candidates in the running plus probably 2 official Fianna candidates.

68Murph68

YoungIreland wrote: »

Whatever you may think about the Healy-Rae's, at least they have done something for the county, compared to the other politicians. Even then, that is woefully inadequate.

They've done far more harm than good.

And what little good they have done (building roads) was primarily as a means of enriching themselves.

YoungIreland

68Murph68 wrote: »

They've done far more harm than good.

And what little good they have done (building roads) was primarily as a means of enriching themselves.

True.

carchaeologist

In my experience people are retarded when it gets to political parties.
'Yerra my faaather voted for him so I will too'
'Yerra he fixshed the potholes.
'Yerra he's a sound man'
Its impossible to be upbeat about any politician in this country!
It's all a complete load of bollox in my opinion.

amadain

You really need a Minister in the county to win investment at the cabinet table.

ejmaztec

YoungIreland wrote: »

I ask because it is clear that Kerry has not been given its fair share of economic opportunities in the last 10-15 years. The rate of population growth in the 2011 Census was slower than in any other county. The IDA has not attracted investment into the county for well over a decade. And now it looks as if the Shannon LNG is going to follow the path of the GPCE into oblivion. It is clear that a new party needs to be formed to champion the interests of the county and to campaign for increased control over our own destinies. So does anyone think that such a party would work?

Not a hope in hell.

YoungIreland

68Murph68 wrote: »

+1

The election of the Healy-Raes sends out a terrible PR message as regards trying to attract outside investment to Kerry.

In terms of a new Kerry party I seriously doubt there is any potential whatsoever.

Currently you have two "independent" FF TDs and one FG TD in Kerry South and one SF, one L and one FG in Kerry North. Given the fact that Kerry is likely to be a 5 seater next time out, I find it very hard to see a new party having any sort of impact. While there is technically 2 independents there,
both Fleming and Healy-Rae would be regarded as pretty much FF in all but name.

As against that Mick Gleeson in South Kerry Independent Alliance SKIA did very well last time out coming ahead of the Labour candidate and coming ahead of John O'Donohgue. It would have been very interesting to see how things would had played out if Tom Sheahan had been eliminated before him.
There was 200 odd votes in the difference between the two and Gleeson would surely have picked up a huge chunk of Sheahan's transfers (especially on geographic grounds) However I seriously doubt Gleeson will be a candidate in 2016 and a huge chunk of his vote would have been a personal vote as opposed to an ideological vote. While he didnt have a party machine behind him he had a very solid background in terms of local level politics having served on both Kerry County Council and Killarney Urban District Council.

If I had to guess at the likely candidates next time out will be all six current TDs

Michael Healy Rae
Brendan Griffin
Tom Flemming
Arthur Spring
Jimmy Deenihan
Martin Ferris (possibly might hand this off to the daughter)

All of the following seem likely to be running as well

Tom McEllistrim - was supposedly canvassing in Killarney recently :eek:
Marie Moloney - was appointed to the Senate and should be boosted by Gleeson likely not to be running
John O'Donoghue - This is my swimming pool. :eek:

A few more are likely to come out of the woodwork as well.

A key factor will be what happens in terms of an official FF candidate. I find it hard to see official FF selecting John O'Donoghue which would mean that there could be 3 unofficial Fianna Fail candidates in the running plus probably 2 official Fianna candidates.

Obviously, I agree that it won't have an overnight impact. However, there will be 3 extra seats on the county council, so if it had a good shot at one of them,it wouldn't be too bad.

YoungIreland

ejmaztec wrote: »

Not a hope in hell.

Mebyon Kernow seem to be doing OK in Cornwall (to use an example of a similar party in the UK)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mebyon_Kernow

ejmaztec

YoungIreland wrote: »

Mebyon Kernow seem to be doing OK in Cornwall (to use an example of a similar party in the UK)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mebyon_Kernow

But they haven't got the GAA in Cornwall.

YoungIreland

ejmaztec wrote: »

But they haven't got the GAA in Cornwall.

I know, if Comhar Ciarrai ( to use a possible name for the party) tapped into the GAA, and the consequent local pride that springs from that, it could work.

ejmaztec

YoungIreland wrote: »

I know, if Comhar Ciarrai ( to use a possible name for the party) tapped into the GAA, and the consequent local pride that springs from that, it could work.

.. and we'd end up with the same old ineffectual people that we've got now, not mentioning any names of course.

One of the Kerry MEPs got elected purely because of his GAA connections, and he's no more a politician than my dog.

YoungIreland

ejmaztec wrote: »

.. and we'd end up with the same old ineffectual people that we've got now, not mentioning any names of course.

One of the Kerry MEPs got elected purely because of his GAA connections, and he's no more a politician than my dog.

OK, does anybody have better ideas as to how to improve our situation,since there doesn't seem to be much support for a new party?

ejmaztec

YoungIreland wrote: »

OK, does anybody have better ideas as to how to improve our situation,since there doesn't seem to be much support for a new party?

Ask the other political parties if they'd like to put forward some proper dynamic candidates instead of the ones they've lumbered us with now.

coolhull

YoungIreland wrote: »

I know, if Comhar Ciarrai ( to use a possible name for the party) tapped into the GAA, and the consequent local pride that springs from that, it could work.

As long as the party is not made up of hurling fans, they should do OK in Kerry
Chontae Chiarrai is not known for their prowess in hurling.

YoungIreland

coolhull wrote: »

As long as the party is not made up of hurling fans, they should do OK in Kerry
Chontae Chiarrai is not known for their prowess in hurling.

I think it would be necessary, though, to use hurling in the region of North Kerry, um how do I describe it, bounded by the river Cashen/Feale and the N69.

Reekwind

68Murph68 wrote: »

And what little good they have done (building roads) was primarily as a means of enriching themselves.

And that's what you'd expect from politicians who epitomise that sort of clientelism. As soon as you start asking 'what's in it for me' rather than 'can he/she do the best job for the country' then you're on a very slippery slope and have effectively ditched any expectations of good governance

What the OP is essentially asking for is a more efficient JHR. I'd suggest that a more rational response would be to say away with that sort of parish pump politicians altogether. Kerry would benefit more from an efficient central government in which politicians actually did their job rather than trying to build provincial empires and line their pockets

YoungIreland

Reekwind wrote: »

And that's what you'd expect from politicians who epitomise that sort of clientelism. As soon as you start asking 'what's in it for me' rather than 'can he/she do the best job for the country' then you're on a very slippery slope and have effectively ditched any expectations of good governance

What the OP is essentially asking for is a more efficient JHR. I'd suggest that a more rational response would be to say away with that sort of parish pump politicians altogether. Kerry would benefit more from an efficient central government in which politicians actually did their job rather than trying to build provincial empires and line their pockets

Centralisation has only resulted in Dublin benefiting and everyone else left behind. Is this what we want in Ireland?

ejmaztec

YoungIreland wrote: »

Centralisation has only resulted in Dublin benefiting and everyone else left behind. Is this what we want in Ireland?

Our local politicians are supposed to use their influence to benefit the whole country, and if they're useless at their jobs, their constituencies never get the benefit of proper representation. This won't change until the electorate start electing people for their qualifications and political skills and stop electing them because they were once good at kicking a ball around.

Irish and Proud

YoungIreland wrote: »

I ask because it is clear that Kerry has not been given its fair share of economic opportunities in the last 10-15 years. The rate of population growth in the 2011 Census was slower than in any other county. The IDA has not attracted investment into the county for well over a decade. And now it looks as if the Shannon LNG is going to follow the path of the GPCE into oblivion. It is clear that a new party needs to be formed to champion the interests of the county and to campaign for increased control over our own destinies. So does anyone think that such a party would work?

Can I say something?

When you elect a TD, you elect a TD as part of the 166 strong parliament that is supposed to be running the country. What this voting for county interests has got us is a pantomime attended by 166 gombeens in Kildare Street, Dublin. What we have running (err... ruining) this country is a complete embarrassment and I seriously do think we Irish in general are better than that!

We need a government that serves the people and puts the likes of IBEC, the big farmers, big speculators, developers, ideological interests etc. firmly in their place. A state should do three things: 1) Regulate, 2) Protect the Vulnerable, 3) Provide Infrastructure. This won't happen as long as we vote for the local bypass etc instead of what's good for the country as a whole - if in doubt, just look at where we are now! If we're going to continue voting for local interests, we may a well declare 26 tiny independent states - in the case, I'd be Meathian (or something like that) instead of Irish.

Seriously, we all need to get a grip!

ejmaztec

If any politicians in North Kerry have actually done anything for Kerry for example, I'd be interested in knowing what it was because I've seen nor heard nothing that gives any indication that they have.

tony007

YoungIreland wrote: »

Whatever you may think about the Healy-Rae's, at least they have done something for the county, compared to the other politicians. Even then, that is woefully inadequate.

They've done little for the county.

fatalll

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Can I say something?

When you elect a TD, you elect a TD as part of the 166 strong parliament that is supposed to be running the country. What this voting for county interests has got us is a pantomime attended by 166 gombeens in Kildare Street, Dublin. What we have running (err... ruining) this country is a complete embarrassment and I seriously do think we Irish in general are better than that!

We need a government that serves the people and puts the likes of IBEC, the big farmers, big speculators, developers, ideological interests etc. firmly in their place. A state should do three things: 1) Regulate, 2) Protect the Vulnerable, 3) Provide Infrastructure. This won't happen as long as we vote for the local bypass etc instead of what's good for the country as a whole - if in doubt, just look at where we are now! If we're going to continue voting for local interests, we may a well declare 26 tiny independent states - in the case, I'd be Meathian (or something like that) instead of Irish.

Seriously, we all need to get a grip!

I agree with you ...but Kerry has not being looked after by anyone.
In fact has lost plenty in every area.

Yes the system needs to change...but country needs to look at where jobs, infrastructure, development are required and look at who is at least getting a fair deal.
Yes things will be centralised in the bigger towns/cities which is ok. but local areas need transport etc

Reekwind

YoungIreland wrote: »

Centralisation has only resulted in Dublin benefiting and everyone else left behind. Is this what we want in Ireland?

And that's the big political myth in Ireland: the idea that the only way to stop those bureaucrats is to elect a local lad who'll go up there and tell those Jackeens what's what. It's nonsense

The reality is that the political system that we have today works entirely in the favour of those local dynasty politicians whose only concern is getting a piece of the pie. Centralisation has come about because politicians, and you couldn't pick a better example than South Kerry's JHR, are too busy enhancing their own pockets/profiles to be doing their job: actually running this country and reigning in the Civil Service

The result is that you have 166 TDs, from every county, supposedly watching out for their constituents' interests and trying to score a sweet deal for the folks back home. At the same time you have a hyper-centralised government bureaucracy that no one's actually supervising. No one's actually at the helm

So when anyone calls for a specific political party for Kerry or the People's Republic of Cork or wherever, you're just rephrasing JHR's old argument, the same story that every TD tells their constituents: vote for me and I'll get you a sweet deal

Opinicus

YoungIreland wrote: »

Centralisation has only resulted in Dublin benefiting and everyone else left behind. Is this what we want in Ireland?

Part of the problem in providing services in this country is that the population is too spread out. Pick any secondary road in the country and if you don't pass a house every 100 yards I'll be shocked. We would benefit from more centralisation in my view. The regional development planning in the past has indeed left a lot to be desired but everyone in this country wants world class service on their doorstep.

Every now and then you see a story in the paper complaining that someone has to travel 3 hours for treatment for some condition. Well if you choose to live in the arse end of nowhere then these are the consequences. No country, no matter how wealthy, can provide these services on everyone's doorstep.

Regarding the possibility of a local party I think that it would be a major step backwards. We should be electing representatives to our NATIONAL parliament to deal with NATIONAL issues, not to try and build a road or a sports centre in their backyard. Which constituency a representative is elected from should be incidental to what they do in the parliament.

I would however like to see the emergence of a new national party before the next election. A party with a clearly defined rational agenda on all social and economic issues who will do exactly what they promise. Starting with cutting TDs' and Senators' pay and pensions down to the average industrial equivalents. Wishful thinking eh?

Irish and Proud

fatalll wrote: »

I agree with you ...but Kerry has not being looked after by anyone.
In fact has lost plenty in every area.

Yes the system needs to change...but country needs to look at where jobs, infrastructure, development are required and look at who is at least getting a fair deal.
Yes things will be centralised in the bigger towns/cities which is ok. but local areas need transport etc

I know where you are coming from, but it's really swings and roundabouts - take the N21 Adare to Abbeyfeale Road Scheme (a proper link to Kerry) for example - it was opposed by locals who didn't want their towns bypassed - this really annoyed me. My view is that Kerry got up off it's backside and made itself a serious tourist destination (even if some of it is a bit stage Irish) and seems to have worked hard to stay there. Now, why should other areas who don't seem to have worked quite as hard have the right to deny motorists traveling to Kerry a decent road (a road that would surely bring more tourists etc.), just because some people along the way seemingly want easy business from a captive audience. If I was running the country and the finances weren't in such a state, I'd make it my business that the N21 Upgrade went ahead - I'd even consider a motorway there.

What I'm really saying is the Kerry gained in some ways, but has also lost out to parish pump politics as the said scheme was AFAIK scrapped, rather than suspended.

Regards!