unions doing nothing

desmurphy

the teacher unions have allowed

• cuts in pay for new teachers
• cuts in sick leave entitlements
• cuts in maternity leave
• a new junior cert with huge extra workload

we will soon be faced with redundancy......because of teacher union inaction and the fact that we have rolled over... we will have no protection.

whats the point in membership

spurious

When were you last at a Branch meeting?

TheDriver

why open a new thread when your last one says the same thing
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80871946

desmurphy

I go to every branch meeting but the facts are the facts. we have rolled over on everything. and yes i have said this before. Why did we complain about croke park deal which protects our pay and jobs in return for 33 hours extra and yet accept the new junior cert, which is educationally unsound and involves hundreds of extr hours in return for nothing .
i have been a loyal union member for over 25 years but they need to stand up and be counted

kippy

desmurphy wrote: »

I go to every branch meeting but the facts are the facts. we have rolled over on everything. and yes i have said this before. Why did we complain about croke park deal which protects our pay and jobs in return for 33 hours extra and yet accept the new junior cert, which is educationally unsound and involves hundreds of extr hours in return for nothing .
i have been a loyal union member for over 25 years but they need to stand up and be counted

What do you want "THEM" to do?

desmurphy

kippy wrote: »

What do you want "THEM" to do?

maybe what they are paid to do protect our pay and conditions. are you saying they are doing a good job? most teachers would disagree with you

desmurphy

say no to the DES sometime

srsly78

desmurphy wrote: »

maybe what they are paid to do protect our pay and conditions. are you saying they are doing a good job? most teachers would disagree with you

They WERE protecting your pay, that's why they screwed future teachers. At the time those soon-to-be teachers were not union members.

RealJohn

desmurphy wrote: »

I go to every branch meeting but the facts are the facts. we have rolled over on everything. and yes i have said this before. Why did we complain about croke park deal which protects our pay and jobs in return for 33 hours extra and yet accept the new junior cert, which is educationally unsound and involves hundreds of extr hours in return for nothing .
i have been a loyal union member for over 25 years but they need to stand up and be counted

We really should be fighting the new junior cert alright. It is going to give us a mountain of extra work for no extra pay and most importantly, it will create an even more unlevel playing field between state funded schools, especially smaller ones with limited resources and the fee paying schools and the larger or better funded state funded schools.

Aside from saving money on marking, I see no actual benefits from this new junior cert and a long, long list of negatives.

desmurphy

srsly78 wrote: »

They WERE protecting your pay, that's why they screwed future teachers. At the time those soon-to-be teachers were not union members.

did you read the first post.... I condemned the union for letting that happen. Low pay for teachers new or old is wrong. I believe current teachers would take action to protect new teachers

spurious

Was your December Branch meeting not the meeting for Congress motions, at which every single one of the items you brought up are up for discussion?
Did you submit a motion on any of the topics?
Did your branch submit a motion on any of the topics?

To 'do something' 'they' need the backing of Congress - perhaps that's why Congress motions are important things to get in.

evolving_doors

RealJohn wrote: »

We really should be fighting the new junior cert alright. It is going to give us a mountain of extra work for no extra pay and most importantly, it will create an even more unlevel playing field between state funded schools, especially smaller ones with limited resources and the fee paying schools and the larger or better funded state funded schools.

Aside from saving money on marking, I see no actual benefits from this new junior cert and a long, long list of negatives.

So basically yould like to keep the old juniorcert because it's less work... Face it fella, youre getting a golden opportunity to create your own courses or at least have input into them within your own school. the current junior cert has become nothing more than a practice session for the leaving cert...same old ding dong...

dont forget that there was a consultation process where teachers were invited to give their opinion along with parents and other interested parties on the new junior cert(seems the ASTI never heard of this anyway)..also at the very least the union got an increase in the amount of subject courses that would be maintained vis a vis the short courses.

I just had to laugh at the older teachers reactions in the staff meetings getting their knickers in a twist when the curriculum committee start the preliminary outline of the new framework.

Change is coming..get with the program.

Going by your posts you have, at the most,15 years left in teaching...( guessing you'd possibly retire in around 2028} ...Do you honestly think it's fair for kids then to have the same curriculum trundling along that they had fifty years ago.

Miss Lockhart

Armelodie wrote: »

So basically yould like to keep the old juniorcert because it's less work... Face it fella, youre getting a golden opportunity to create your own courses or at least have input into them within your own school. the current junior cert has become nothing more than a practice session for the leaving cert...same old ding dong...

dont forget that there was a consultation process where teachers were invited to give their opinion along with parents and other interested parties on the new junior cert(seems the ASTI never heard of this anyway)..also at the very least the union got an increase in the amount of subject courses that would be maintained vis a vis the short courses.

I just had to laugh at the older teachers reactions in the staff meetings getting their knickers in a twist when the curriculum committee start the preliminary outline of the new framework.

Change is coming..get with the program.

So if you disagree with the implementation of the new JC because you think it is poorly thought out, rushed, a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water and basically a disaster waiting to happen then you are simply a dinosaur against change?

evolving_doors

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

So if you disagree with the implementation of the new JC because you think it is poorly thought out, rushed, a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water and basically a disaster waiting to happen then you are simply a dinosaur against change?

As regards armageddon, its always predicted when there's any inkling towards change in this country...

for once the dept. is giving teachers some charge of the change, but oh no, we need someone to spell it out for us with sample papers and training courses.the net result is that once we have these we can ' game the system' in true irish fashion to get the results on paper...notice the utterpanic every year that the right poet will come up in the leaving cert english exam..for god sake is this what we want in the junior cert too?

desmurphy

spurious wrote: »

Was your December Branch meeting not the meeting for Congress motions, at which every single one of the items you brought up are up for discussion?
Did you submit a motion on any of the topics?
Did your branch submit a motion on any of the topics?

To 'do something' 'they' need the backing of Congress - perhaps that's why Congress motions are important things to get in.

I did

desmurphy

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

So if you disagree with the implementation of the new JC because you think it is poorly thought out, rushed, a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water and basically a disaster waiting to happen then you are simply a dinosaur against change?

I work in a disadvantaged school where thrre is little parental support. The pupils go absent when deadlines arrive. Correcting your own pupils work is not objective

desmurphy

spurious wrote: »

Was your December Branch meeting not the meeting for Congress motions, at which every single one of the items you brought up are up for discussion?
Did you submit a motion on any of the topics?
Did your branch submit a motion on any of the topics?

To 'do something' 'they' need the backing of Congress - perhaps that's why Congress motions are important things to get in.

I did

desmurphy

Armelodie wrote: »

As regards armageddon, its always predicted when there's any inkling towards change in this country...

for once the dept. is giving teachers some charge of the change, but oh no, we need someone to spell it out for us with sample papers and training courses.the net result is that once we have these we can ' game the system' in true irish fashion to get the results on paper...notice the utterpanic every year that the right poet will come up in the leaving cert english exam..for god sake is this what we want in the junior cert too?

Your assumptions are wrong. New junior cert will not be objective

Rodin

Mod warning: do not post inflammatory material

Miss Lockhart

Armelodie wrote: »

Defo, going by op's posts they have, at the most,15 years left in teaching...( guessing you'd possibly retire in around 2028} ...Do you honestly think it's fair for kids then to have the same curriculum trundling along that they had fifty years ago?

As regards armageddon, its always predicted when there's any inkling towards change in this country...

for once the dept. is giving teachers some charge of the change, but oh no, we need someone to spell it out for us with sample papers and training courses.the net result is that once we have these we can ' game the system' in true irish fashion to get the results on paper...notice the utterpanic every year that the right poet will come up in the leaving cert english exam..for god sake is this what we want in the junior cert too?

You are being incredibly disingenuous and disrespectful. Many teachers have legitimate concerns about the new JC. I don't think there's much to be gained from continuing a discussion with somebody who jumps to conclusions based on inaccurate and unfounded preconceived ideas.

desmurphy

Rodin wrote: »

Do you hand back money for not correcting the work of pupils who haven't handed it in?

You know lots dont you

---

dont worry i look after my pupils but the new junior cert wont. Apologies for having an opinion and caring

Rodin

Mod warning: do not post in this thread again please.

eyescreamcone

Mod warning: do not post in this thread again.

whiteandlight

Following some clean up of posts can I remind everyone that attacking the poster and posting deliberately inflammatory posts is not allowed.

Please do not reply on thread.

I will leave the thread open for now but I will close it immediately if any further discussion of the nature above is repeated

RealJohn

Armelodie wrote: »

So basically yould like to keep the old juniorcert because it's less work... Face it fella, youre getting a golden opportunity to create your own courses or at least have input into them within your own school. the current junior cert has become nothing more than a practice session for the leaving cert...same old ding dong...

dont forget that there was a consultation process where teachers were invited to give their opinion along with parents and other interested parties on the new junior cert(seems the ASTI never heard of this anyway)..also at the very least the union got an increase in the amount of subject courses that would be maintained vis a vis the short courses.

I just had to laugh at the older teachers reactions in the staff meetings getting their knickers in a twist when the curriculum committee start the preliminary outline of the new framework.

Change is coming..get with the program.

Going by your posts you have, at the most,15 years left in teaching...( guessing you'd possibly retire in around 2028} ...Do you honestly think it's fair for kids then to have the same curriculum trundling along that they had fifty years ago.

First of all, I didn't say I wanted to keep the old junior cert, I said we should be fighting the new one.
I also said quite clearly that we should be fighting it because there is only one advantage to it (saving money) whereas there is a long list of disadvantages.

You seem to think it strange that I have a problem with doing lots of extra work for no extra pay. Would you like to explain what's so strange about this?

You say that this is my opportunity to create my own courses. I already have that in transition year (which is a more appropriate time to present them). Like I said, these short courses will simply widen the gap between schools with lots of resources and schools in disadvantaged areas with fewer resources. Is that a good thing in your opinion?

You say that there was a consultation process? Much like the supposed consultation process for project maths, I didn't hear anything about it until all of the decisions had been made and we were informed it was happening.

The courses and curricula should be designed centrally. That way there's some consistency across the country and the qualifications have some value, if only because they can be compared to the rest of the country directly. Now, not only will this be more difficult because of the differences in the content of the courses but the common elements will be more inconsistent too because of teachers marking their own students' work. Do you think that there will be marking conferences and careful monitoring when they have to do it for every teacher teaching any junior cert subjects in the the entire country?

Obviously the courses will need to change over the next five, ten, twenty years but this new junior cert is not the way to do it. It's just another money saving exercise and ultimately, it's the students and possibly the future economy that will suffer from the short sightedness of the politicians who only see the short term financial saving.

spurious

The new JC is not the topic of this thread, which is now being closed.

Real John, if you would like, I will split your post off and we can discuss the new JC in a new thread - let me know by PM, thanks.

Thread closed.