Kauto Star moves to new home.

finbarrk

Seemingly it's causing a lot of discussion. A bit of a disagreement between Paul Nicholls and Clive Smith regarding the horses future.
He is gone to a good home anyway. Laura Collett, event rider. Would love to see him eventing.
http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd?event_id=1024404

kencoo

yea. not sure what the fuss is about tbh. The horse will be doing dressage for the next few years which is hardly taxing. Better than standing in a field for 10 to 15 years doing nothing... Lots of the big stars in racing enjoy this type of life such as Beef or Salmon, Kicking King etc...

klairondavis

kencoo wrote: »

yea. not sure what the fuss is about tbh.

+1

Nicholls throwing the toys out of the pram completely. He always comes across as someone who lacks a bit of humility.

faoile@n

Retraining a horse to dance will be great fun alright :eek:

fits

Is he going to do dressage or eventing?

high level dressage actually is pretty taxing but he wont be going to high levels at his age.

Eventing, well, its probably as dangerous as racing to a horse. Particularly the cross country segment.

Imhof Tank

fits wrote: »

Is he going to do dressage or eventing?

high level dressage actually is pretty taxing but he wont be going to high levels at his age.

Eventing, well, its probably as dangerous as racing to a horse. Particularly the cross country segment.

Pure Dressage it seems.

Whats really interesting I think is Nichols' willingness to fall out so publicly with such a big owner - surely Clive could never have another horse in training with him after this?

Nichols must feel he is totally bombproof at this stage of his career in terms of the Barbours, the Stewarts and his other big owners. Dangerous assumption on his part possibly?

Fritzl Funderland

has clive smith anymore horses being trained by Nicholls?

RichieLawlor

Clive Smith is not a big owner, he was blessed to find Kauto and MM. All he has in training now is free world and a couple of hounds in partnership with betfair racing club

Imhof Tank

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Clive Smith is not a big owner, he was blessed to find Kauto and MM. All he has in training now is free world and a couple of hounds in partnership with betfair racing club

Well, he would have the financial muscle to go to France and buy the next Kauto Star or Mastermind.

Just find it a bit strange that Nichols would burn his bridges so publicly. Thats all.

UrbanSea

Nicholls is never wrong or never says sorry

Imhof Tank

Actually, just read this on the Telegraph website, which sounds bizarre by Nichols if done without Smith's consent:-



Smith had long resented Nicholls keeping Kauto Star at Ditcheat after the horse’s retirement, especially when he learned that the trainer had been charging racing tourists. But sources close to Nicholls said all proceeds had gone to charity, including the Air Ambulance, which was one of the trainer’s preferred charities.

convert

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Pure Dressage it seems.

That's such a pity. He'd be better off going hunting, like Denman, or doing some jumping rather than just dressage. He'd have much more fun.

RichieLawlor

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Actually, just read this on the Telegraph website, which sounds bizarre by Nichols if done without Smith's consent:-



Smith had long resented Nicholls keeping Kauto Star at Ditcheat after the horse’s retirement, especially when he learned that the trainer had been charging racing tourists. But sources close to Nicholls said all proceeds had gone to charity, including the Air Ambulance, which was one of the trainer’s preferred charities.

Why would he need smiths consent? Smith owns 2 horses in the yard?

jimjamcos

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Well, he would have the financial muscle to go to France and buy the next Kauto Star or Mastermind.

Just find it a bit strange that Nichols would burn his bridges so publicly. Thats all.

I read today that Smith was interested in buying Kauto Stone at two different times (first time was in France) but apparently Nicholls paved the way for one of his other owners to eventually get him. Shows that the pair were obviously not on best terms and that Nicholls was happy enough to cut his ties with Smith!

Imhof Tank

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Why would he need smiths consent? Smith owns 2 horses in the yard?

How I read it was that visitors were being charged a specific fee to see KS, not just a flat fee for a yard visit.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

sting60

Firstly I think its like asking Lionel Messi to join Riverdance.Kauto will be 13 in a couple of weeks and It will take three years as a novice in the dressage event before he can reach the top[if he can].As far as i have read Nicholls wanted the horse to remain with Clifford Baker who has looked after the horse from day one and slept with horse while injured.The horse was cantered around the fields of Nicholls four times per week and was having a wonderful time according to Nicholls.

Slattsy

sting60 wrote: »

Firstly I think its like asking Lionel Messi to join Riverdance.Kauto will be 13 in a couple of weeks and It will take three years as a novice in the dressage event before he can reach the top[if he can].As far as i have read Nicholls wanted the horse to remain with Clifford Baker who has looked after the horse from day one and slept with horse while injured.The horse was cantered around the fields of Nicholls four times per week and was having a wonderful time according to Nicholls.

This.

I would not believe a word that comes out of that mans mouth.

Imhof Tank

sting60 wrote: »

Firstly I think its like asking Lionel Messi to join Riverdance.Kauto will be 13 in a couple of weeks and It will take three years as a novice in the dressage event before he can reach the top[if he can].As far as i have read Nicholls wanted the horse to remain with Clifford Baker who has looked after the horse from day one and slept with horse while injured.The horse was cantered around the fields of Nicholls four times per week and was having a wonderful time according to Nicholls.

He wont be reaching the top in dressage. They just want something to keep his mind active.

sting60

Imhof Tank wrote: »

He wont be reaching the top in dressage. They just want something to keep his mind active.

Clive Smith has hired Yogi Breisner[GB manager and top coach,eventing] and the horse has gone to Laura Collett[Europian bronze medalist,eventing].It seems Smith is looking for a little more than keeping his mind active.

Imhof Tank

sting60 wrote: »

Clive Smith has hired Yogi Breisner[GB manager and top coach,eventing] and the horse has gone to Laura Collett[Europian bronze medalist,eventing].It seems Smith is looking for a little more than keeping his mind active.

I'm sure he would like him to compete at some sort of respectable novice level, but he has as much chance of reaching the top as a dressage horse would have of winning the Derby.

Breiser and Collet are just assessing him AFAIK- in conjunction with the retraining ex racehorses charity. This whole stunt is part of efforts being made to market retired racehorses to leisure horse riders. Denman is hunting week in week out in England. Brave Inca, Moscow Flyer, Hardy Eustace, Harchibald etc are all doing the showing circuit in Ireland now. If Kauto Star could be retrained as a novice dressage horse, that would be great publicity for them - would encourage amateurs to take on ex racehorses for hunting, showing, eventing, hacking, whatever - better than a one way trip on the meat truck.

ft9

sting60 wrote: »

Firstly I think its like asking Lionel Messi to join Riverdance.Kauto will be 13 in a couple of weeks and It will take three years as a novice in the dressage event before he can reach the top[if he can].As far as i have read Nicholls wanted the horse to remain with Clifford Baker who has looked after the horse from day one and slept with horse while injured.The horse was cantered around the fields of Nicholls four times per week and was having a wonderful time according to Nicholls.

Brilliant

Motivator

Slattsy wrote: »

This.

I would not believe a word that comes out of that mans mouth.

Can I ask you why that is?

Slattsy

Motivator wrote: »

Can I ask you why the that is?

He's not a very honest man. He comes across as a pretentious sort of guy too.
As a trainer he's brilliant but the amount of bs he spurts is ridiculous. He seems to have an excuse for everything and anything regarding his horses poor runs. He's never straight with the public.

Recent example was after Al Ferof won the Paddy Power. After the race he said Al Ferof was never right last year and he wasn't happy with him at all at home. But he seemed a different animal this year.. Yet he never told the public any of this stuff.

So was he never right last year or did Nicholls simply train him wrong or run him in the wrong races?
Complete bull****ter.

RichieLawlor

Clive Smith owns the horse, Nicholls is acting the complete prick

meriwether

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Clive Smith owns the horse, Nicholls is acting the complete prick

Nicholls would want to grow up a bit.

Its Smiths horse.

SRFC

Slattsy wrote: »

He's not a very honest man. He comes across as a pretentious sort of guy too.
As a trainer he's brilliant but the amount of bs he spurts is ridiculous. He seems to have an excuse for everything and anything regarding his horses poor runs. He's never straight with the public.

Recent example was after Al Ferof won the Paddy Power. After the race he said Al Ferof was never right last year and he wasn't happy with him at all at home. But he seemed a different animal this year.. Yet he never told the public any of this stuff.

So was he never right last year or did Nicholls simply train him wrong or run him in the wrong races?
Complete bull****ter.

Have to agree with this all you ever hear when one gets beaten is ''Needs a wind op'' :rolleyes::

Panrich

I wouldn't be a fan of Nicholls and the idea of charging to see an owners horse is repellent. It smacks of convenience that all the money is going to charity when the story is in the public domain.
However, Smith is no better in my view and his behaviour in this doen't seem to have the welfare of the horse in mind.
If Kauto was going to a relation or friend to do a few little local shows and just keep his mind active then nobody except Nicholls would complain.
Sending the horse to a hungry competitive younster, looking to make her name is not what a horse needs given the amount of mileage on the clock that Kauto has. The horse is being thrown into a competitive environment. Also anyone who thinks dressage is just dancing for horses doesn't understand the mechanics and the need to build different muscles to racing. It's like taking up weightlifting after your football career.

Harry Angstrom

I can see why Nicholls would be pissed off about the way things went. Sending Kauto Star into the dressage world is an ego trip for Clive Smith. I never liked that guy - far too "nice" to be true. I'm convinced it was Nicholls who persuaded Smith to bring Kauto back last year and I also reckon that Nicholls would have been keen to send Kauto back to Kempton this year for one last run in the King George before retiring him. I'd love to have seen Kauto lining up for the King George in a couple of weeks.

ft9

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I can see why Nicholls would be pissed off about the way things went. Sending Kauto Star into the dressage world is an ego trip for Clive Smith. I never liked that guy - far too "nice" to be true. I'm convinced it was Nicholls who persuaded Smith to bring Kauto back last year and I also reckon that Nicholls would have been keen to send Kauto back to Kempton this year for one last run in the King George before retiring him. I'd love to have seen Kauto lining up for the King George in a couple of weeks.

You are dead right. You may not believe this, but I can assure you that Smith, within 2 hours of the GC last year decided Kauto was being retired.

He said Paul wanted to put him out to grass and decide next winter what to do, but Kauto was finished racing in CS's eyes.

Morgans

I cant see too much ego being involved with sending a horse to dressage. There is FAR FAR FAR more ego involved in sending him for a King George. Especially, if the stable are only going there with fingers crossed.

There is nothing to stop Nicholls owning horses and doing what he wants with them.

I'm sure if he did, he wouldnt take too kindly to telling anyone what he can and cant do with his horse.