Items not covered by party and party costs

Aggers

I recently settled a case out of court with party and party costs.
I've gone through my bill and have a few little issues I will take up with my solicitor, but in general I'm happy enough with the bill and everything had been explained to me beforehand.

But before I contact her I was wondering if anyone can confirm if the following items I have to pay for sound reasonable as I have no idea what they are and what was involved and can't find any info on the net about these costs:

I have to pay €95 incl. VAT for "Ex Parte Docket"

I have to pay a barrister i never heard of €250 for "updated particulars" on one date and another €250 for "updated paticulars" a few months later. I also have to pay him €150 for "attendance at list to fix dates" and €150 for "discovery opinion," all these prices excl. VAT at 23%. Are these reasonable costs and what exactly are they? Why aern't they covered by the other side?

Other things I need to pay for are the difference and shortfall between stand by fee's etc which was explained to me and am ok with.

Its cheaper to ask these questions here and Its good to have a bit of knowledge before returing to my solicitor, any help appreciated.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Aggers wrote: »

I recently settled a case out of court with party and party costs.
I've gone through my bill and have a few little issues I will take up with my solicitor, but in general I'm happy enough with the bill and everything had been explained to me beforehand.

But before I contact her I was wondering if anyone can confirm if the following items I have to pay for sound reasonable as I have no idea what they are and what was involved and can't find any info on the net about these costs:

I have to pay €95 incl. VAT for "Ex Parte Docket"

I have to pay a barrister i never heard of €250 for "updated particulars" on one date and another €250 for "updated paticulars" a few months later. I also have to pay him €150 for "attendance at list to fix dates" and €150 for "discovery opinion," all these prices excl. VAT at 23%. Are these reasonable costs and what exactly are they? Why aern't they covered by the other side?

Other things I need to pay for are the difference and shortfall between stand by fee's etc which was explained to me and am ok with.

Its cheaper to ask these questions here and Its good to have a bit of knowledge before returing to my solicitor, any help appreciated.

Not really sure myself but I'll give my opinion

A lot of court cases that are going to go before a certain judge in the future is put on a list and that judge will spend an hour or two going through the list with the baristers involved in the case in order to pick dates that would work for the baristers and the judge

A lot of the time information needed to progress with a court case is held by one side or the other and a process called discovery is used to make people hand over that informations. Sometimes there will be a mini hearing regarding that piece of information if its contested or the baristers review the information asked for by the other side to make sure that they have a legal right to ask for that information for the case.

I don't know why these items aren't covered by the other party and I don't know whats the other items are but I hope that helps

McCrack

Often there is a shortfall in expert report fees and standby/attendance fees and you as plaintiff are responsible for. These shortfalls are usually minimal however.

Barristers fees are party/party costs and would be included in the bill the other side will pay.

The 95 is a stamp duty on a court document and again that is part of the party/party bill.

If a settlement is "all-in" then the plaintiff is responsible for all the costs, he pays them out of the settlement, if its "plus costs" then costs are paid by the other side. Just double check what precisely your settlement is and assuming its "plus costs" then the above applies.

Jo King

McCrack wrote: »

Often there is a shortfall in expert report fees and standby/attendance fees and you as plaintiff are responsible for. These shortfalls are usually minimal however.

Barristers fees are party/party costs and would be included in the bill the other side will pay.

The 95 is a stamp duty on a court document and again that is part of the party/party bill.

If a settlement is "all-in" then the plaintiff is responsible for all the costs, he pays them out of the settlement, if its "plus costs" then costs are paid by the other side. Just double check what precisely your settlement is and assuming its "plus costs" then the above applies.

The taxing master may not allow some barristers fees on a party and party basis. Setting down a case for trial at a list for fixed dates does not require a barrister to be briefed and the other side will not have to pay for it.

McCrack

If legal costs can't be agreed and they dont tax then the lawyers will cut their cloth to measure. That is the norm.

Setting a case down is procedural, it does not requie an application to the court. Its only stamping and filing a document. There may be agency fees if the solicitors office is not in Dublin and he uses somebody to attend in the central office on his behalf but that would be included in miscellaneous items or non scheduled items in his bill of costs.

Aggers

McCrack wrote: »

Often there is a shortfall in expert report fees and standby/attendance fees and you as plaintiff are responsible for. These shortfalls are usually minimal however.

Barristers fees are party/party costs and would be included in the bill the other side will pay.

The 95 is a stamp duty on a court document and again that is part of the party/party bill.

If a settlement is "all-in" then the plaintiff is responsible for all the costs, he pays them out of the settlement, if its "plus costs" then costs are paid by the other side. Just double check what precisely your settlement is and assuming its "plus costs" then the above applies.

My settlement was with party and party costs. There are a few shortfalls which I know I have to pay, but its the itelms listed I was not aware of.

So from your above post the party/party bill is the bill I have to pay? Why are these things not be included on the other sides bill like everything else? Why do i have to pay the 95euro etc?

Tom Young

Because the updates, dockets, etc. were required to state your case properly.

Milk & Honey

McCrack wrote: »

If legal costs can't be agreed and they dont tax then the lawyers will cut their cloth to measure. That is the norm.

Setting a case down is procedural, it does not requie an application to the court. Its only stamping and filing a document. There may be agency fees if the solicitors office is not in Dublin and he uses somebody to attend in the central office on his behalf but that would be included in miscellaneous items or non scheduled items in his bill of costs.

Setting a case down is procedural but some cases require a personal attendance in court on a list to fix dates and an attendance to "call on" the case the week before. The other side won't pay for a barrister to attend.

tombren

Aggers wrote: »

I recently settled a case out of court with party and party costs.
I've gone through my bill and have a few little issues I will take up with my solicitor, but in general I'm happy enough with the bill and everything had been explained to me beforehand.

But before I contact her I was wondering if anyone can confirm if the following items I have to pay for sound reasonable as I have no idea what they are and what was involved and can't find any info on the net about these costs:

I have to pay €95 incl. VAT for "Ex Parte Docket"

I have to pay a barrister i never heard of €250 for "updated particulars" on one date and another €250 for "updated paticulars" a few months later. I also have to pay him €150 for "attendance at list to fix dates" and €150 for "discovery opinion," all these prices excl. VAT at 23%. Are these reasonable costs and what exactly are they? Why aern't they covered by the other side?

Other things I need to pay for are the difference and shortfall between stand by fee's etc which was explained to me and am ok with.

Its cheaper to ask these questions here and Its good to have a bit of knowledge before returing to my solicitor, any help appreciated.

i'd query the €95 incl VAT for the Ex-parte Docket. Doesn't look like stamp duty as Stamp Duty does not attract VAT and the current High Court Stamp duty on an Ex-parte Application is €138.00. It as never been €95.00. In the Circuit Court i think it's €68.00 (but not 100% sure)

In relation to your Updated Particulars, these are likely to be Updated Particulars of Injury or Updated Particulars of Negligence. These should be recoverable on a party and party basis (if they were necessary for the attainment of Justice) however not at €250.00. Unless they are extremely extensive they would probably tax at between €100-€150.00.

The Barristers fee for attendance to fix dates is not recoverable on a party and party basis as it is considered to form part of his brief.

The opinion on discovery would be considered a solicitor and client cost and is not recoverable from the other side.

Victor

Did your solicitor or other advisor waste your barrister's time?

Aggers

tombren wrote: »

i'd query the €95 incl VAT for the Ex-parte Docket. Doesn't look like stamp duty as Stamp Duty does not attract VAT and the current High Court Stamp duty on an Ex-parte Application is €138.00. It as never been €95.00. In the Circuit Court i think it's €68.00 (but not 100% sure)

In relation to your Updated Particulars, these are likely to be Updated Particulars of Injury or Updated Particulars of Negligence. These should be recoverable on a party and party basis (if they were necessary for the attainment of Justice) however not at €250.00. Unless they are extremely extensive they would probably tax at between €100-€150.00.

The Barristers fee for attendance to fix dates is not recoverable on a party and party basis as it is considered to form part of his brief.

The opinion on discovery would be considered a solicitor and client cost and is not recoverable from the other side.

Thanks, that clears up a lot. I'll question these issues and see what he says.