Wattbike

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Does anyone on here have one or used one before? If so how did you find it? Does anyone know of any in use in gyms etc to try one out?

I am in the market for a new indoor trainer and the wattbike is something i am considering along with 2/3 others.

peter kern

great tool a bit OTT for home use given the high price.
would go for a computrainer if you think you need those tools.
advantage for wattbike over computrainer is fast adjustability so in a gym etc that makes sense for home use .......

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

peter kern wrote: »

great tool a bit OTT for home use given the high price.
would go for a computrainer if you think you need those tools.
advantage for wattbike over computrainer is fast adjustability so in a gym etc that makes sense for home use .......

Yeah i am looking at a CT as one of my other options. I agree the pricing for a new wattbike is very pricey considering its for home use. However looking at prices a re-conditioned wattbike (probably hard to come by) would come out at roughly the same price as a CT.
The one benefit i would see is having a fixed setup in the home gym (which i am working on) and less switching around with bikes/cranks/pm's etc on my outdoor setup. The fact it is always setup and with accurate power measurement are two big positives.

Have you used one before?

tunney

Tommy Rotten Corner wrote: »

Yeah i am looking at a CT as one of my other options. I agree the pricing for a new wattbike is very pricey considering its for home use. However looking at prices a re-conditioned wattbike (probably hard to come by) would come out at roughly the same price as a CT.
The one benefit i would see is having a fixed setup in the home gym (which i am working on) and less switching around with bikes/cranks/pm's etc on my outdoor setup. The fact it is always setup and with accurate power measurement are two big positives.

Have you used one before?

On CTs. I have one. I use it I like it. BUT anything that works off power from the rear wheel will be subject to changes in wattage readings as a result of changes in friction resulting from variations in tyre temperature.

Its a pain in the hole but as long as you remember it its killer. The ERG software is the dogs. Welcome to suffer like a little biatch on mine whenever.

tunney

tunney wrote: »

On CTs. I have one. I use it I like it. BUT anything that works off power from the rear wheel will be subject to changes in wattage readings as a result of changes in friction resulting from variations in tyre temperature.

Its a pain in the hole but as long as you remember it its killer. The ERG software is the dogs. Welcome to suffer like a little biatch on mine whenever.

And joke about "well yours doesn't get used in" in 3.....2......

pgibbo

A friend of minbe uses one on a regular basis. He swears by it and thinks it's the DOGs!!!!

I can put you in touch with him if you want to pick his brain.

pgibbo

Have you not had a lot of sotware issues with yours Dave? I seem to recall you mentioning that before. Are they trouble free?

Ryath

Tommy Rotten Corner wrote: »

Does anyone on here have one or used one before? If so how did you find it? Does anyone know of any in use in gyms etc to try one out?

I am in the market for a new indoor trainer and the wattbike is something i am considering along with 2/3 others.

Beasty cycling forum mod has one and seems to use it a lot. PM him or start a thread over there?

mloc123

Buy a cheap 150e no frills turbo?

You have a powermeter.. why do you need a turbo with any kind of display, power readings etc..?

I don't buy the planned workouts/laptop integration. Create a workout on your garmin, adjust the turbo resistance to suit as needed... save yourself a couple of grand or more

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

tunney wrote: »

On CTs. I have one. I use it I like it. BUT anything that works off power from the rear wheel will be subject to changes in wattage readings as a result of changes in friction resulting from variations in tyre temperature.

Its a pain in the hole but as long as you remember it its killer. The ERG software is the dogs. Welcome to suffer like a little biatch on mine whenever.

FTP testing next time round, you of course up first:)

tunney wrote: »

And joke about "well yours doesn't get used in" in 3.....2......

Its probably gathering dust since you last used it.

pgibbo wrote: »

A friend of minbe uses one on a regular basis. He swears by it and thinks it's the DOGs!!!!

I can put you in touch with him if you want to pick his brain.

If you can P, with that sort of investment i want to make sure its something i would be happy with.

Ryath wrote: »

Beasty cycling forum mod has one and seems to use it a lot. PM him or start a thread over there?

Cheers will throw up a thread over there.

mloc123 wrote: »

Buy a cheap 150e no frills turbo?

You have a powermeter.. why do you need a turbo with any kind of display, power readings etc..?

I don't buy the planned workouts/laptop integration. Create a workout on your garmin, adjust the turbo resistance to suit as needed... save yourself a couple of grand or more

I get what you are saying but i am looking for a fixed setup seperate to my road or tt bike which has the PM on. The idea is i will have a dedicated room (lets call it the pain cave:rolleyes:) fixed bike setup with accurate power and a treadmill right beside with some other gym equipment, the bar room in the house is being converted:)
I like the workouts/laptop integration btw, i like that sh1te.

sconhome

Recession has shut the bar!

Are the LeMond fixed bikes any use?

I was looking at the Revolution setup in B2R at the weekend, kind of like what is predicted for the Kickr but then its the software options on the backside of the Kickr that makes it a different machine. It was when checking out the LeMond website that I saw the gym bikes.

Could be worth checking out liquidation auctions for possible source for a trainer.

mloc123

Tommy Rotten Corner wrote: »

I get what you are saying but i am looking for a fixed setup seperate to my road or tt bike which has the PM on. The idea is i will have a dedicated room (lets call it the pain cave:rolleyes:) fixed bike setup with accurate power and a treadmill right beside with some other gym equipment, the bar room in the house is being converted:)
I like the workouts/laptop integration btw, i like that sh1te.

I just think you could get a second P2M and a cheap no frills turbo and leave it setup, you could even buy an accurate Powertap instead ... the power on any turbo will not be in line with our PM.

Fazz

I've a bit of experience with a few of your options so here's my opinion:

I started out on a Minoura V150 turbo trainer - 5 levels of resistance, relatively quiet and perfect for apartment living, durable and easy to leave in corner or fold legs and put away.

Then I wanted to try out power.

So I downloaded TrainerRoad as a free trial and my turbo wasn't quite a perfect match for their setup but it turned out to work damn good and away I went.
That gave me a laptop connected via ANT USB stick to my HR/Cadence/Speed and also set at certain resistance which trainerroad calculated to be xxx watts.
It gave a bit of on screen motivation and I really liked using the watts and did my first CP5 and CP20 FTP tests on it.
Soon got bored of it and wanted a bit more.

So I rented a Computrainer from the UK for 3 months complete with Real course Vids and the software.
It requires a more fixed turbo setup which was ok as it was in the spare room so left it there.
It's pretty damn old skool, may as well be a DOS type setup though I know there is an update released since.
So, using the Computrainer was definitely a different feel on the turbo - always resistance there as you'd expect.
The hand controller is again old and no features other than setting the watts.

I liked it at the start, the on screen data of watts/hr/cadence/distance/time etc etc and a funny man cycling for you or chasing a target etc.
I did however get fed up when it crashed for no reason on me a couple weeks in a row.
It has its imperfections, and for something at that price for me it just didn't add up. It's very old skool, and to be honest a little boring imo.
Couldn't justify the cost of it and I sent it back after the 3 months.

Next up, I was into Base 2 Race and joined their Power Turbo classes on the LeMond Watt trainers.
These are noisy turbo's that you hook in place of your rear wheel, and come with a nice modern data display showing watts, speed, time, and hr if you pair it. They aren't electric so no crashing issues, are fixed in place and cannot be folded away. - about 1.5 times the size or maybe even twice the size of a normal turbo.
The watts are just ran off the chain basically spinning a cassette on the turbo itself, turns out it's pretty damn accurate and reliable.

I really like using these, the modern display is great, the group training sessions even more so and they are very enjoyable hard working sessions.
Hands down my favourite session of the week.

I've since added a powermeter too which stays on the TT bike (I do all turbo's on the TT bike). So my power meter is used as an extra gauge but also for my turbo sessions at home.

My current set up is the trusty Minoura V150 Turbo and my TT bike with crank power meter - if session requires power.


I don't see the point in buying an expensive wattbike at all.
Why would you train on something you are never going to race on?
You are just adding a layer of different fit/adjustment that isn't needed imo.

I understand you've the luxury of a fixed setup at home - so just fit your TT bike on the turbo? It takes all of 10 seconds to unhook my TT bike from turbo when off training on it every week.
And you already have the power meter so should be sorted no?
Do you really need the power meter on the road bike for the weekend long spins? I know I don't.

I didn't like the Computrainer myself personally.
If looking for a turbo with power/screen then I'd read the DC rainmaker review.
I think he rated the Tacx one relatively highly, though power figures were not the most accurate I think.

In my experience, I think training with power definitely adds a better layer of quality as long as it's applied correctly.
It should also add fun and enjoyment though, so may be worth finding out what you enjoy or will work best with.

My advice:
- try the Computrainer from Tunney
- try a turbo class in B2R to see the LeMond's - or even pop in some Sat/Sun and have a go on one with your TT bike - the lads wouldn't mind I'm sure.
- Look at the Tacx computer turbo that gives all the video's and lark.
- Think about just a simple Turbo and use your TT bike and Power Meter. Docking station and a set power related turbo class from your coach and away you go.

Decide what works best for you then.

peter kern

Tommy Rotten Corner wrote: »

Yeah i am looking at a CT as one of my other options. I agree the pricing for a new wattbike is very pricey considering its for home use. However looking at prices a re-conditioned wattbike (probably hard to come by) would come out at roughly the same price as a CT.
The one benefit i would see is having a fixed setup in the home gym (which i am working on) and less switching around with bikes/cranks/pm's etc on my outdoor setup. The fact it is always setup and with accurate power measurement are two big positives.

Have you used one before?

have used one twice this year and was happy with it and for commercial use i would recommend it .
otherwise no.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

@MLOC - Yeah i had not considered that option of another PM on a permanent turbo setup. Not a fan of power being measured on the rear wheel in case you are trying to offload:)

@Fazz - Thanks for taking the time for the detailed post, i heard the CT is good alright but a bit dated. My own turbo is pretty good and i suppose if i had a second pm it would do a job. Having received some offline info by someone who has experience with wattbike and knows his stuff in this area it has put me off especially at the price they are asking. The LeMond trainers are nice as i was on one in B2R when getting a fit, how do they compare to your power reading on the PM, accurate? If i decided to go with something like that i would probably try to get the Kickr when released in the US especially with the additonal software options on offer. Good point on adding in other variables and not training on what you are racing on.
With regards to "Do you really need the power meter on the road bike for the weekend long spins? I know I don't" Yep i do as i always have some specific work contained within a long bike so power out on the road for me is just as important as on the trainer. I could go with a 2nd pm and have the tt on a full time setup, it would work out much cheaper than the wattbike option.
Edited to add i already have the Tacx Fortius with all the vr and vids etc on my current setup.

@Peter - Yeah i think it would be overkill for personal use, more suitable to lab testing or commercial use. Lets not forget rather expensive considering there is cheaper options available which can do the same job.

mloc123

Tommy Rotten Corner wrote: »

@MLOC - Yeah i had not considered that option of another PM on a permanent turbo setup. Not a fan of power being measured on the rear wheel in case you are trying to offload:)

@Fazz - Thanks for taking the time for the detailed post, i heard the CT is good alright but a bit dated. My own turbo is pretty good and i suppose if i had a second pm it would do a job. Having received some offline info by someone who has experience with wattbike and knows his stuff in this area it has put me off especially at the price they are asking. The LeMond trainers are nice as i was on one in B2R when getting a fit, how do they compare to your power reading on the PM, accurate? If i decided to go with something like that i would probably try to get the Kickr when released in the US especially with the additonal software options on offer. Good point on adding in other variables and not training on what you are racing on.
With regards to "Do you really need the power meter on the road bike for the weekend long spins? I know I don't" Yep i do as i always have some specific work contained within a long bike so power out on the road for me is just as important as on the trainer. I could go with a 2nd pm and have the tt on a full time setup, it would work out much cheaper than the wattbike option.
Edited to add i already have the Tacx Fortius with all the vr and vids etc on my current setup.

@Peter - Yeah i think it would be overkill for personal use, more suitable to lab testing or commercial use. Lets not forget rather expensive considering there is cheaper options available which can do the same job.

No intention of offloading, some day I will bike again. I am a fan if PMs that are accurate tho

peter kern

i am sure 1 day the new power 2 max will work good enough ;-)

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

P2Max haters

tunney

Fazz wrote: »

I've a bit of experience with a few of your options so here's my opinion:

I started out on a Minoura V150 turbo trainer - 5 levels of resistance, relatively quiet and perfect for apartment living, durable and easy to leave in corner or fold legs and put away.

Then I wanted to try out power.

So I downloaded TrainerRoad as a free trial and my turbo wasn't quite a perfect match for their setup but it turned out to work damn good and away I went.
That gave me a laptop connected via ANT USB stick to my HR/Cadence/Speed and also set at certain resistance which trainerroad calculated to be xxx watts.
It gave a bit of on screen motivation and I really liked using the watts and did my first CP5 and CP20 FTP tests on it.
Soon got bored of it and wanted a bit more.

So I rented a Computrainer from the UK for 3 months complete with Real course Vids and the software.
It requires a more fixed turbo setup which was ok as it was in the spare room so left it there.
It's pretty damn old skool, may as well be a DOS type setup though I know there is an update released since.
So, using the Computrainer was definitely a different feel on the turbo - always resistance there as you'd expect.
The hand controller is again old and no features other than setting the watts.

I liked it at the start, the on screen data of watts/hr/cadence/distance/time etc etc and a funny man cycling for you or chasing a target etc.
I did however get fed up when it crashed for no reason on me a couple weeks in a row.
It has its imperfections, and for something at that price for me it just didn't add up. It's very old skool, and to be honest a little boring imo.
Couldn't justify the cost of it and I sent it back after the 3 months.

Next up, I was into Base 2 Race and joined their Power Turbo classes on the LeMond Watt trainers.
These are noisy turbo's that you hook in place of your rear wheel, and come with a nice modern data display showing watts, speed, time, and hr if you pair it. They aren't electric so no crashing issues, are fixed in place and cannot be folded away. - about 1.5 times the size or maybe even twice the size of a normal turbo.
The watts are just ran off the chain basically spinning a cassette on the turbo itself, turns out it's pretty damn accurate and reliable.

I really like using these, the modern display is great, the group training sessions even more so and they are very enjoyable hard working sessions.
Hands down my favourite session of the week.

I've since added a powermeter too which stays on the TT bike (I do all turbo's on the TT bike). So my power meter is used as an extra gauge but also for my turbo sessions at home.

My current set up is the trusty Minoura V150 Turbo and my TT bike with crank power meter - if session requires power.


I don't see the point in buying an expensive wattbike at all.
Why would you train on something you are never going to race on?
You are just adding a layer of different fit/adjustment that isn't needed imo.

I understand you've the luxury of a fixed setup at home - so just fit your TT bike on the turbo? It takes all of 10 seconds to unhook my TT bike from turbo when off training on it every week.
And you already have the power meter so should be sorted no?
Do you really need the power meter on the road bike for the weekend long spins? I know I don't.

I didn't like the Computrainer myself personally.
If looking for a turbo with power/screen then I'd read the DC rainmaker review.
I think he rated the Tacx one relatively highly, though power figures were not the most accurate I think.

In my experience, I think training with power definitely adds a better layer of quality as long as it's applied correctly.
It should also add fun and enjoyment though, so may be worth finding out what you enjoy or will work best with.

My advice:
- try the Computrainer from Tunney
- try a turbo class in B2R to see the LeMond's - or even pop in some Sat/Sun and have a go on one with your TT bike - the lads wouldn't mind I'm sure.
- Look at the Tacx computer turbo that gives all the video's and lark.
- Think about just a simple Turbo and use your TT bike and Power Meter. Docking station and a set power related turbo class from your coach and away you go.

Decide what works best for you then.

Fazz's comments on the Computrainer are all bang on. The software is dated (and that includes the new stuff), the hardware has wires. The head unit is dated. The Polar HR does not work.


HOWEVER. There is no equal out there now. *maybe* the kickr *if* the software is good, however the software requires third parties to write it.
I dropped my bike box on the unit from a height the other day.

On the plus side of the computrainer
a) I dropped my bike box on it the other day, its fine. Yes the units are old school, same technology as early 90s. That being said there are still units running from the 90s

b)ctAnt+ - hooks up ANT+ HR and injects it into the CT datastreams. Also rebroadcasts CT data as ANT+ data streams.

c)Golden Cheetah - integrates with the CT, to be honest this is where I do most of my work (or did)

d)Smart racers - For longer turbos set up some smart pacers in the new software and while the graphics aren't cutting edge you can still race crude AIs around wattage bands. The time flies.

e) Erg files - I believe your coach sets you specific turbos. If someone has a CT you can just email an ERG file and the load of the unit is controlled via that. These are where the real work is done. Integrates lovely with Golden Cheetah


@mloc I know you don't get the idea of expensive turbos but there there is no cheating a CT. you do it or you don't.

Now I've b1tched about my CT enough, but faced with what is on the market I'd buy again (albeit see about second hand as the units are bomb proof).

so @littleman, rock up some evening, for a test and for a different set, and knock your nuts out. Could even set up my Elite HydroForce next to you and test at the same time

tunney

@fazz your comments on the original software are bang on by the way.

Golden Cheetah is the dogs!

(That being said it can be use to track and display ANT+ data as well real time graphs of what was done verses what was meant to be done)

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Decided to go with a 2nd pm on a fixed tt setup on the current turbo, does the job. Will work out much cheaper than wattbike and more practical.
Before Peter jumps in (two pms his head will explode) i back up my gadgetery addiction with actually doing the training:)

bryangiggsy

Tommy Rotten Corner wrote: »

Decided to go with a 2nd pm on a fixed tt setup on the current turbo, does the job. Will work out much cheaper than wattbike and more practical.
Before Peter jumps in (two pms his head will explode) i back up my gadgetery addiction with actually doing the training:)

2 Power2Maxes or a foray into SRM?

peter kern

Tommy Rotten Corner wrote: »

Decided to go with a 2nd pm on a fixed tt setup on the current turbo, does the job. Will work out much cheaper than wattbike and more practical.
Before Peter jumps in (two pms his head will explode) i back up my gadgetery addiction with actually doing the training:)

I would advise you to read the post of Fazz a few more times a lot of gold in that post.

bryangiggsy

peter kern wrote: »

I would advise you to read the post of Fazz a few more times a lot of gold in that post.

One thing i absorbed from Fazz's reply was his comment on the powermeter for the Sunday long group rides..is it really necessary if you do your 2/3 focused powermeter based turbo sessions on the bike during the week. When is a good time to just ride?

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

bryangiggsy wrote: »

2 Power2Maxes or a foray into SRM?

Likely a 2nd hand srm for turbo setup indoors and P2M on the road.

peter kern wrote: »

I would advise you to read the post of Fazz a few more times a lot of gold in that post.

I have read it, a few times. Its a very good detailed post and i am glad he took the time/effort to post it. Judging from your response it would suggest or you feel i have missed a point? What are you pointing towards, be clear Guter Mann:)
His opinion/advice was,

Fazz wrote: »

My advice:
- try the Computrainer from Tunney - I PLAN ON DOING THIS
- try a turbo class in B2R to see the LeMond's - or even pop in some Sat/Sun and have a go on one with your TT bike - the lads wouldn't mind I'm sure. - I HAVE TRIED THE LE MOND TRAINER, NOT AN OPTION FOR ME TO TRY OUT THEIR CLASSES THOUGH DUE TO LACK OF AVAILABLE TIME
- Look at the Tacx computer turbo that gives all the video's and lark. - I HAVE ONE, TACX FORTIUS, GOOD MACHINE BUT SOFTWARE UNSTABLE AT TIMES
- Think about just a simple Turbo and use your TT bike and Power Meter. Docking station and a set power related turbo class from your coach and away you go. - BANG, THATS IT, I WILL HAVE THE TT ON A FIXED SETUP WITH POWER. WITH 4 KIDS AND A BUSY HOUSE HAVING THE LUXURY OF A FIXED SETUP OPENS UP MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO JUMP STRAIGHT ON WITHOUT MESSING ABOUT WITH WHEELS, PULLING TURBO OUT ETC ETC.

Decide what works best for you then.

bryangiggsy wrote: »

One thing i absorbed from Fazz's reply was his comment on the powermeter for the Sunday long group rides..is it really necessary if you do your 2/3 focused powermeter based turbo sessions on the bike during the week. When is a good time to just ride?

On recovery weeks, unstrusctured phase, off season or easy rides is the time to just go out and ride for fun. Mind you not all long bikes will have specific work but as you get closer to your goal races they will.
For me focused sessions are what will make a difference to my cycling, not for everyone but it will work for me. Not to mention it makes a 4hr cycle fly in when there is structure to it, especially if doing it on the turbo.
Everyone is different mind you.

tunney

Tommy Rotten Corner wrote: »

I have read it, a few times. Its a very good detailed post and i am glad he took the time/effort to post it. Judging from your response it would suggest or you feel i have missed a point? What are you pointing towards, be clear Guter Mann:)
His opinion/advice was,

Glad someone posted this as I saw absolutely no connection between your post that Peter quoted and Fazz's excellent post.

daithiK1

maybe I am missing something, my thoughts for what it is worth is try/test the powertap option too ruled out earlier with a turbo might be the ideal solution, cheap, accurate and can be switched between bikes in about one minute... Maybe even you could compare with the p2m and let us all know the results....

Also would suggest putting the head unit in your pocket for the odd sunday spin....