M4 upgrade.

Trebob

Hi guys, this is going to be my first custom aeg. I'm not going to change the outside of it only internally. I'm looking to boost the Fps and range of it. I'd like to keep the same motor and gears as they are quite new and pretty strong. She fires now @ a solid 300-310 I'm just looking for that bit more. Was thinking a 6.02 barrell and a silicone hop , new spring ect. I'm just looking to see if these parts would surfice to making my aeg that little better.

Any suggestions on how this can be achieved without spending 2-300 euro on it for motors and gears. Also if you could help with good brands of pieces I can use and not dirt.

Thanks guys as I said I'm new to this upgrading business and not sure what I need to do it but do it right.

Southern Dandy

Trebob wrote: »

She fires now @ a solid 300-310 I'm just looking for that bit more. Was thinking a 6.02 barrell and a silicone hop , new spring ect. I'm just looking to see if these parts would surfice to making my aeg that little better.

A new barrel can increase your fps by 10-15 fps, a new soft rubber can create a better air seal than your stock rubber and give you a minor increase if any, not always the case but it can happen. This brings you very close to our 1 joule limit it may or may not fire hot depending on what chrono ou use. These mods will improve your range and give you a tighter grouping.

You could downgrade to a lower rated spring and still install the barrel and rubber so as to make sure it does not shoot hot. There are many good brands of rubbers i.e guarder clear, prometheus pink (personal favourite), madbull blue, G&G green, ultimate etc, as for barrels anyone and there dog makes them, gunner armoury, madbull, prometheus, madbull are a good barrel and reasonably prices in my opinion and come in various lengths and inner diameters.

Am going to pass on a bit of advice that I was told, just because someone else's barrel/hop combination works for their AEG does not necessarily mean it will work wonders in your, brand design with various styles of hop up chambers etc is to do with this. Do a bit of trial and error with barrel and rubber combinations as well as the nub and pick the best that suits your rifle.

Trebob wrote: »

Any suggestions on how this can be achieved without spending 2-300 euro on it for motors and gears. Also if you could help with good brands of pieces I can use and not dirt.

Gears and a motor will not increase your fps only your ROF, and there is no point touching the gears and motor if your happy with the rate of fire. A barrel and rubber combo could set you back anywhere between 40-60 euro depending on you brand choice.

Hope this helps.

T4RGET

Trebob wrote: »

Hi guys, this is going to be my first custom aeg. I'm not going to change the outside of it only internally. I'm looking to boost the Fps and range of it. I'd like to keep the same motor and gears as they are quite new and pretty strong. She fires now @ a solid 300-310 I'm just looking for that bit more. Was thinking a 6.02 barrell and a silicone hop , new spring ect. I'm just looking to see if these parts would surfice to making my aeg that little better.

Any suggestions on how this can be achieved without spending 2-300 euro on it for motors and gears. Also if you could help with good brands of pieces I can use and not dirt.

Thanks guys as I said I'm new to this upgrading business and not sure what I need to do it but do it right.

just to add to the above, this was pretty much already said but I wouldn't go anywhere near the gearbox, unless you're looking for a specific set up for the gun (hi speed/torque).
Now the barrel and hop up as mentioned is experimenting but I personally use a 363mm madbull python II with a modded H-hop and G&G green rubber.
you're so close to the limit that you will probably have to drop a lower power spring into it to stop it going over with the TBB and hop up in it.
it sounds to me that it's a relatively new gun so wait untill it starts to wear and then replace everything in the gearbox in one go, for what ever set up you;re going for
Come back if you need more help

Trebob

Southern Dandy wrote: »

A new barrel can increase your fps by 10-15 fps, a new soft rubber can create a better air seal than your stock rubber and give you a minor increase if any, not always the case but it can happen. This brings you very close to our 1 joule limit it may or may not fire hot depending on what chrono ou use. These mods will improve your range and give you a tighter grouping.

You could downgrade to a lower rated spring and still install the barrel and rubber so as to make sure it does not shoot hot. There are many good brands of rubbers i.e guarder clear, prometheus pink (personal favourite), madbull blue, G&G green, ultimate etc, as for barrels anyone and there dog makes them, gunner armoury, madbull, prometheus, madbull are a good barrel and reasonably prices in my opinion and come in various lengths and inner diameters.

Am going to pass on a bit of advice that I was told, just because someone else's barrel/hop combination works for their AEG does not necessarily mean it will work wonders in your, brand design with various styles of hop up chambers etc is to do with this. Do a bit of trial and error with barrel and rubber combinations as well as the nub and pick the best that suits your rifle.



Gears and a motor will not increase your fps only your ROF, and there is no point touching the gears and motor if your happy with the rate of fire. A barrel and rubber combo could set you back anywhere between 40-60 euro depending on you brand choice.

Hope this helps.

Great bit of advice there so best way is whst I thought barrel and hop up should bring it up to spec relatively cheap. Il look into the brands you mentioned and I only put new rubber in so I won't change that.

Il do those changes and see if I need a spring to bring it back down if its over.

Thanks a mill il let you know how it gos and what I used to do it.

Trebob

T4RGET wrote: »

just to add to the above, this was pretty much already said but I wouldn't go anywhere near the gearbox, unless you're looking for a specific set up for the gun (hi speed/torque).
Now the barrel and hop up as mentioned is experimenting but I personally use a 363mm madbull python II with a modded H-hop and G&G green rubber.
you're so close to the limit that you will probably have to drop a lower power spring into it to stop it going over with the TBB and hop up in it.
it sounds to me that it's a relatively new gun so wait untill it starts to wear and then replace everything in the gearbox in one go, for what ever set up you;re going for
Come back if you need more help

Cheers for your advice I see what you mean about the gearbox and motor. I try to keep myself on semi auto so that's the main reason I wasn't going to touch them, but in the future you never know . The gun is quite old and has had a lot of rounds through it bit I had it looked at and was told the motor and gears were fine and should go for another long while yet. Plus ive kept it well maintained for the 1yr and half or so I've had it Its Never let me down yet:) when the time comes for change il take that plunge then. If I run into any problems il be sure let you guys know! Thanks again for your help.

Inari

Have you skirmished the gun yet? What have you found lacking? Or has anything been lacking?

Are you looking for improved range? Were other people out-ranging you?

Are you looking for a higher ROF (rate of fire)?

Are you unhappy with your trigger response?

There is an upgrading culture in airsoft, where people swap out perfectly good parts for no good reason whatsoever, just so that it's a little more "custom". Over the years I have found that the best course of action is to replace parts and upgrade guns only when necessary i.e. when you have a clear image in your head as to what you are looking for, or where you are unhappy with the gun's current performance.

If you're not unhappy - save your money! If you are unhappy, then start small! You don't need to go near the gearbox for the first ports of call:
1.) BB's. The most important accuracy upgrade is what you're shooting. If you want the most range and superior consistency, then you're going to need to find a good consistent BB. Experiment with what weight works best for you

2.) Barrel. Barrels affect the shot-to-shot consistency more so than anything else. You're looking at overall quality; you want a good high quality smooth-bore finish for the best results. Cheaper barrels tend to have poorer inner-bore finishes resulting in quite shocking accuracy.

3.) Hop up rubber. Hop up rubbers are the primary force at play for range; a low-powered gun with properly installed (and tuned) hop up will outshoot a high powered gun with no hop up. The softer the rubber the more friction imparted to the BB. You're also looking for a hard nub to apply more consistent spin. For superior results to the standard, look into flat hop and R-Hop.

4.) Battery. What voltage battery are you using? If it's an 8.4v, try a 9.6v NiMh or 7.4v LiPo and see if you have nicer trigger response and/or ROF. Sometimes your battery may not be supplying enough power and you won't realise the full potential of your motor.

5.) Motor. Many guns are shipped with ferrite magnet motors - these are antiquated technology and are simply inferior to the neodymium magnet motors. You get faster RPM's, faster acceleration and even better efficiency i.e. your battery will last longer.

Just remember that a huge part of getting a gun perfect is trial and error...you end up buying tonnes of different parts to try out various combinations. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You can spend serious amounts of money...so take your time, and always ask if yourself "Am I currently unhappy with it?" - once the answer is no, then stop immediately and save monies!!

Trebob

Inari wrote: »

Have you skirmished the gun yet? What have you found lacking? Or has anything been lacking?

Are you looking for improved range? Were other people out-ranging you?

Are you looking for a higher ROF (rate of fire)?

Are you unhappy with your trigger response?

There is an upgrading culture in airsoft, where people swap out perfectly good parts for no good reason whatsoever, just so that it's a little more "custom". Over the years I have found that the best course of action is to replace parts and upgrade guns only when necessary i.e. when you have a clear image in your head as to what you are looking for, or where you are unhappy with the gun's current performance.

If you're not unhappy - save your money! If you are unhappy, then start small! You don't need to go near the gearbox for the first ports of call:
1.) BB's. The most important accuracy upgrade is what you're shooting. If you want the most range and superior consistency, then you're going to need to find a good consistent BB. Experiment with what weight works best for you

2.) Barrel. Barrels affect the shot-to-shot consistency more so than anything else. You're looking at overall quality; you want a good high quality smooth-bore finish for the best results. Cheaper barrels tend to have poorer inner-bore finishes resulting in quite shocking accuracy.

3.) Hop up rubber. Hop up rubbers are the primary force at play for range; a low-powered gun with properly installed (and tuned) hop up will outshoot a high powered gun with no hop up. The softer the rubber the more friction imparted to the BB. You're also looking for a hard nub to apply more consistent spin. For superior results to the standard, look into flat hop and R-Hop.

4.) Battery. What voltage battery are you using? If it's an 8.4v, try a 9.6v NiMh or 7.4v LiPo and see if you have nicer trigger response and/or ROF. Sometimes your battery may not be supplying enough power and you won't realise the full potential of your motor.

5.) Motor. Many guns are shipped with ferrite magnet motors - these are antiquated technology and are simply inferior to the neodymium magnet motors. You get faster RPM's, faster acceleration and even better efficiency i.e. your battery will last longer.

Just remember that a huge part of getting a gun perfect is trial and error...you end up buying tonnes of different parts to try out various combinations. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You can spend serious amounts of money...so take your time, and always ask if yourself "Am I currently unhappy with it?" - once the answer is no, then stop immediately and save monies!!

I've skirmished the gun every weekend for over a year! What's lacking you ask? Well it's range and accuracy lately hence why I'm looking to upgrade a bit.

1) I always use king arms .20 have also used .25 .28 I find .20 the best for me.

2)barrel I'd like to stretch into a suppressor for the better range. Want a high quality TBB.

3) it's a metal hop in it at the minute that has started to act up and I just can't fix it it's all over the place sending bb's in all different directions. Example I straighten the nub fine one day the next gone hay wire again. I'm sick of field stripping to fix it mid game. Or on lunch so my conclusion need a new hop.

4) 9.6 NiMh! Was 8.4 I changed for that little but extra but I rarely use full auto. But I do get a better trigger response from it. Might try a lipo in it. But I'm happy with its rate at the minute.

5) don't feel the need to change the motor as its never missed a beat or had problems. As above not looking for a huge rate of fire! I'm not too sure of what type of motor it is but not worries either. When the time comes for it needing to be changed il change it.

So basically I'm looking for range and accuracy and a little bit more Fps. Other than that I'm happy with the rest.

This is a gun I intend to keep and use and keep using. Other guns I've owned just haven't lived up to it so why change I say. Just fix what wrong.

Thanks for your advice and have taken it all on board.

T4RGET

I'd personally try get your hands on a G&G hop up unit, the ABS ones. I find they sit around the barrel far better. then try get a G&G green hop up. I think airosfteire have both of them.

Then the barrel I'd use is a madbull python II. Hobbyairsoft has loads of different sizes in stock. 363 is standard M4A1 length. I wouldn't bother with a suppressor to increase the barrel length, you may have to go into the gearbox depending on the length you decide to use.

When i first combined the madbull TBB and G&G green is brought by M4 up by 70fps so be careful

Orkfield

http://www.airsofteire.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1313&category_id=169&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26

http://www.airsofteire.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1314&category_id=169&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26

I found that these two work really well together and I personally always put them in any new gun I get but just be careful with the fps

Trebob

Cheers lads! Here's where I'm at I've added a mad bull ultimate hop-up also added a mad bull TBB 6.03.. I will have to downgrade the spring (im guessing) though which is a quick easy fix. Just got to find the right spring. So at least for now the accuracy has been sorted. I don't have a chrono so sat will be the judge. If its over need more work as I was close before. The spate gun shall be coming just in case

Cheers again to all you guys!

T4RGET

Trebob wrote: »

Cheers lads! Here's where I'm at I've added a mad bull ultimate hop-up also added a mad bull TBB 6.03.. I will have to downgrade the spring (im guessing) though which is a quick easy fix. Just got to find the right spring. So at least for now the accuracy has been sorted. I don't have a chrono so sat will be the judge. If its over need more work as I was close before. The spate gun shall be coming just in case

Cheers again to all you guys!

you'll probably need an M85 perhaps an M90 if you're confident in the consistency (if it's already under obviously:)), that's what I use and one of my guns as the exact same set up as you used there

Trebob

T4RGET wrote: »

you'll probably need an M85 perhaps an M90 if you're confident in the consistency (if it's already under obviously:)), that's what I use and one of my guns as the exact same set up as you used there

Thanks T4RGET,

Il check on Saturday see what I'm at over or under!! See where I go from there as regards springs and stuff.

Faolchu

T4RGET wrote: »

I'd personally try get your hands on a G&G hop up unit, the ABS ones. I find they sit around the barrel far better. then try get a G&G green hop up. I think airosfteire have both of them.

Then the barrel I'd use is a madbull python II. Hobbyairsoft has loads of different sizes in stock. 363 is standard M4A1 length. I wouldn't bother with a suppressor to increase the barrel length, you may have to go into the gearbox depending on the length you decide to use.

When i first combined the madbull TBB and G&G green is brought by M4 up by 70fps so be careful

T4rget when you say the g&g one do you mean the stock one like what comes in a raider?

T4RGET

Faolchu wrote: »

T4rget when you say the g&g one do you mean the stock one like what comes in a raider?

yup, like i said personally, I find them one of the best. but yes the ones found in the Raiders

Trebob

Hi guys just a quick update on the progress of this. I played two weeks ago with the new parts I put I and well surfice to say it was over the limit by about 20fps (back up gun needed)

Was now thinking an m85 in it should bring the Fps down by a good bit thing is I'm not sure by how much!! Could it be brought down/up by a little bit after I add the spring by a small part I've never heard of?? I'd like to get it to around 320-325 Fps and keep it there not dramatically drop back down to where it was as it would defeat the purpose of doing it all in the first place. So do you if the spring would do the job alone. I.E. how much effect does a spring generally have in the Fps?

T4RGET

was afraid of that, hence why i recommended the M85 . if it's firing ~350 now then the M85 should do it, 320 is a nice number to be at, 325 is awkwardly close, chrono, weather and everything else can make it shoot over on a day.
you can either cut one or two coils of the M90, but I'd rather use the M85 if i were you.

Faolchu

T4RGET wrote: »

yup, like i said personally, I find them one of the best. but yes the ones found in the Raiders

Cheers mate have an ultimate hopup chamber with ultimate blue and a mad bull tbb and I wa only getting 260 on Sunday. I'll swap back in the g&g hopup chamber and green rubber and see how it works out

Southern Dandy

Faolchu wrote: »

Cheers mate have an ultimate hopup chamber with ultimate blue and a mad bull tbb and I wa only getting 260 on Sunday. I'll swap back in the g&g hopup chamber and green rubber and see how it works out

Sounds like your losing air somewhere, ultimate chambers are very good imo and thats very low fps if your running that kind of set up not unless it always quite simply just shoots that low .

Check your hop up rubber for a tear or open your gearbox and do a compression test on your cylinder.

Faolchu

Southern Dandy wrote: »

Sounds like your losing air somewhere, ultimate chambers are very good imo and thats very low fps if your running that kind of set up not unless it always quite simply just shoots that low .

Check your hop up rubber for a tear or open your gearbox and do a compression test on your cylinder.

Cheers if I remember right it was always in that region though it may have been in the 290s but that could have been my pistol, I don't get out often enough to remember. I had a hard time gettingvthe blue rubber into te chamber so you could be right. I'll take her apart and reassembly but with the green in and have it tested next time I'm out and sure if its not a busy day ill try different combos to get the best results. If it says that low ill check everything else out

T4RGET

Faolchu wrote: »

Cheers if I remember right it was always in that region though it may have been in the 290s but that could have been my pistol, I don't get out often enough to remember. I had a hard time gettingvthe blue rubber into te chamber so you could be right. I'll take her apart and reassembly but with the green in and have it tested next time I'm out and sure if its not a busy day ill try different combos to get the best results. If it says that low ill check everything else out

even if it was that low, you may still have bad air compression, either way as it stands the spring change should do it, if you're not up for changing out parts yet