UK License and Speeding Fine

Smoggy

A month or so back I was caught speeding, the fine came through which I paid and sent details of my UK license. The question is, will I get the points ? I didn't think the reciprocal points agreement between Ireland and the UK was ever formalised ?

firestarter51

no, you wont get the points yet, i was told they are kept on a database in case you get an irish licence, not sure how true this is. i got a fine for a mobile, i paid the fine and sent off a copy of the licence, i got my receipt back, and that was the end of that

stacexD

A garda told my father last week that the story they tell you of the points being transferred to your Irish license when/if you get one is crap. He actually got a fine with 2 points last week with his UK license and the garda told him to wait until the fine is all sorted out before changing to his Irish license to avoid getting the points.

firestarter51

stacexD wrote: »

A garda told my father last week that the story they tell you of the points being transferred to your Irish license when/if you get one is crap. He actually got a fine with 2 points last week with his UK license and the garda told him to wait until the fine is all sorted out before changing to his Irish license to avoid getting the points.

Why would he want to change, a guard I know told me to never give it up

scudzilla

You don't have to change from a UK license to an Irish one until your UK license expires, which is when yer 70


Unless of course the law changes in the future

firestarter51

The law states if you reside in the country for more than six months you need to change, sod that I'm keeping mine, have to renew the picture every ten years as I have the card licence

wonski

firestarter51 wrote: »

The law states if you reside in the country for more than six months you need to change, sod that I'm keeping mine, have to renew the picture every ten years as I have the card licence

No.You don't have to exchange it unless it expired.

scudzilla

firestarter51 wrote: »

The law states if you reside in the country for more than six months you need to change, sod that I'm keeping mine, have to renew the picture every ten years as I have the card licence

^ ^ Wrong, please show a link to that

wonski wrote: »

No.You don't have to exchange it unless it expired.

^ ^ That's correct

awec

This post has been deleted.

Mr.David

I have a UK one here too.

I'm pretty sure though that I cannot keep it until it expires. As far as I remember, you have to change over when the first of the two following conditions is met:

1. It expires
2. It reaches the max length of validity in the country you are living, as in for an Irish licence it needs to be renewed every 10 years so the same applies to an international one being used in Ireland.

Please correct me if I am wrong, I would love to keep my UK one forever but I have it in my head that I have to exchange it in 9 years time!

keithclancy

Mr.David wrote: »

I have a UK one here too.

I'm pretty sure though that I cannot keep it until it expires. As far as I remember, you have to change over when the first of the two following conditions is met:

1. It expires
2. It reaches the max length of validity in the country you are living, as in for an Irish licence it needs to be renewed every 10 years so the same applies to an international one being used in Ireland.

Please correct me if I am wrong, I would love to keep my UK one forever but I have it in my head that I have to exchange it in 9 years time!

Thats correct afaik, its the maximum length of validity of a driving license in the country where you live.

I.E. You move from UK -> Germany/France you never have to exchange as they have lifetime licenses there.

You move from UK -> Ireland maximum length of validity of an Irish license applies, so its 10 years from the date of issue of your UK License.

Never heard of it being enforced in Ireland though.

firestarter51

i cant believe i was wrong, so many guards have stopped me at check points and given me hassle for the uk licence, telling me i have to change it if i'm living here, bla bla bla, i just said i was back and forth every other week, normally followed by a big sigh, and letting me go


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driver_licensing/exchanging_foreign_driving_permit.html

stacexD

firestarter51 wrote: »

Why would he want to change, a guard I know told me to never give it up

He's had it 20 odd years and it's been through the washing machine way too many times. When he got the last fine 2 he didn't have it on him and when he produced it the gards (another station) wouldn't accept it becuase you couldnt make out the last digit of the expiry date and told him he was lying when he said brittish licenses expire when you're retirement age. So now he has a lovely date with a judge because of it :P and has to change his license to Irish so it doesn't happen again

firestarter51

stacexD wrote: »

He's had it 20 odd years and it's been through the washing machine way too many times. When he got the last fine 2 he didn't have it on him and when he produced it the gards (another station) wouldn't accept it becuase you couldnt make out the last digit of the expiry date and told him he was lying when he said brittish licenses expire when you're retirement age. So now he has a lovely date with a judge because of it :P and has to change his license to Irish so it doesn't happen again

Oh dear, horrible going to court over something stupid, happened to me before, they judge went mad at the guard for wasting his time, he shouted out, the next guard bringing a waste of time before him would go to jail, that got a big cheer.

sunnysoutheast

wonski wrote: »

No.You don't have to exchange it unless it expired.

It's not that a UK licence isn't valid as such, but it is an offence, punishable by a £1000 fine, to have a driving licence with an incorrect/old address in the UK and it is not possible to update the address unless you are a UK resident. If you change the address on a UK paper licence you get a photocard one back which has to be renewed every 10 years (it's technically the photo which is renewed, not the licence) and this is not possible unless you are a UK resident.

Unless you still have an address at the original address to which your UK licence was issued you are driving on a technically illegal licence as above. Whether this would have any bearing in an accident etc. I don't know. If stopped I'd suggest the combination of IE plates and a UK licence would be the main issue the Garda would be concerned with but I have to say I had a UK licence on three or four stops and it was never taken further.

I've also heard of this "shadow" licence to which points are added but I don't know who has ever got one with points on.

edit: sorry for UK read GB. They do their own thing in NI but I think the principle is the same.

Marcusm

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

It's not that a UK licence isn't valid as such, but it is an offence, punishable by a £1000 fine, to have a driving licence with an incorrect/old address in the UK and it is not possible to update the address unless you are a UK resident. If you change the address on a UK paper licence you get a photocard one back which has to be renewed every 10 years (it's technically the photo which is renewed, not the licence) and this is not possible unless you are a UK resident.

Unless you still have an address at the original address to which your UK licence was issued you are driving on a technically illegal licence as above. Whether this would have any bearing in an accident etc. I don't know. If stopped I'd suggest the combination of IE plates and a UK licence would be the main issue the Garda would be concerned with but I have to say I had a UK licence on three or four stops and it was never taken further.

I've also heard of this "shadow" licence to which points are added but I don't know who has ever got one with points on.

edit: sorry for UK read GB. They do their own thing in NI but I think the principle is the same.

There are some subtleties in the UK law which I think you may have misconstrued/misdescribed. A person who changes address and does not surrender the relevant photocard is guilty of an offence but this does not invalidate or render the licence void. IT is only the photocard which is questionable. Further, to the extent that the holder has moved outside the UK and thus will not be provided with an updated licence, I do not believe that any UK court will record a conviction or impose a fine as the official procedure is effectively flawed, i.e. the person is licensed but the DVLA will fail to issue an updated photocard with the revised non UK address despite the fact that the person remains licensed to drive.

sunnysoutheast

Marcusm wrote: »

There are some subtleties in the UK law which I think you may have misconstrued/misdescribed. A person who changes address and does not surrender the relevant photocard is guilty of an offence but this does not invalidate or render the licence void. IT is only the photocard which is questionable. Further, to the extent that the holder has moved outside the UK and thus will not be provided with an updated licence, I do not believe that any UK court will record a conviction or impose a fine as the official procedure is effectively flawed, i.e. the person is licensed but the DVLA will fail to issue an updated photocard with the revised non UK address despite the fact that the person remains licensed to drive.

I appreciate that the licence in itself isn't necessarily void, but the above is a summary of the advice I was given when I contacted the DVLA on this topic a few years ago. I was specifically told that a GB paper licence is only valid until the holder reaches 70 or changes their details, i.e. address. I was unable to find definitive independent information either way. My wife was able to exchange her GB licence for an Irish one with no hassle.

I also contacted the relevant Irish licence office and they said that, as there was no way to change the address on a GB licence to a non-GB address, the best advice they could offer was to write my Irish address in the "change of address" section of my paper licence but not send it off to DVLA.....that got me through a few stops.

There isn't any official requirement to inform the DVLA that you have left GB but the fact remains that the address details are now out of date unless you are still "living" at the original address. If stopped by the Police in the UK there is a risk that they will impose a fine for having an out-of-date address, I don't know if the fact that the DVLA only changes addresses for GB residents would be a valid defence to that charge or how any fine would be collected.

As is often the case with this sort of issue, the level of enforcement is probably minimal.

Marcusm

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I appreciate that the licence in itself isn't necessarily void, but the above is a summary of the advice I was given when I contacted the DVLA on this topic a few years ago. I was specifically told that a GB paper licence is only valid until the holder reaches 70 or changes their details, i.e. address. I was unable to find definitive independent information either way. My wife was able to exchange her GB licence for an Irish one with no hassle.

I also contacted the relevant Irish licence office and they said that, as there was no way to change the address on a GB licence to a non-GB address, the best advice they could offer was to write my Irish address in the "change of address" section of my paper licence but not send it off to DVLA.....that got me through a few stops.

There isn't any official requirement to inform the DVLA that you have left GB but the fact remains that the address details are now out of date unless you are still "living" at the original address. If stopped by the Police in the UK there is a risk that they will impose a fine for having an out-of-date address, I don't know if the fact that the DVLA only changes addresses for GB residents would be a valid defence to that charge or how any fine would be collected.

As is often the case with this sort of issue, the level of enforcement is probably minimal.

I think we're mostly on the same page. The reason I believe that noaction can be taken at a court level is due to the effective nullity of the law as regards those who move overseas. In theory you should send your licence to DVLA with the new (foreign) address but you will not receive a new photocard and while you are entitled to drive abroad you have no proff of that entitlement and you have no capacity to lawfully exchnage your licence for one issued by another member state. Effectively, the only acceptable adminsitrative procedure is to send a letter or declaration to DVL notifying them of your change of address overseas and retain a copy of that letter. IN such circumtances, I find it hard to believe that any prosecution could successfully be mounted in the UK should suh a licensed driver subsequently drive in the UK while in possession of the old photocard.

The issue about changing when 70 is fairly worn ground in the UK as there is such a large cohort of older holders of paper licences which live overseas (mostly in Spain) and who relaise at the age of 70 that they need to apply for a Spanish licence which may or may not be straightfoward.

An uncle has recently had to do this - he returned to Ireland in the late 70s but continued to drive on his GB licence until this year (when he turned 70) As I understand it, the process was quite simple.

The real issue is for holders of photocards when they expire - if you apply for a renewal with a "false" or accommodation address, you are committing an offence and not one which I think would be looked on kindly.

sunnysoutheast

Marcusm wrote: »

I think we're mostly on the same page. The reason I believe that noaction can be taken at a court level is due to the effective nullity of the law as regards those who move overseas. In theory you should send your licence to DVLA with the new (foreign) address but you will not receive a new photocard and while you are entitled to drive abroad you have no proff of that entitlement and you have no capacity to lawfully exchnage your licence for one issued by another member state. Effectively, the only acceptable adminsitrative procedure is to send a letter or declaration to DVL notifying them of your change of address overseas and retain a copy of that letter. IN such circumtances, I find it hard to believe that any prosecution could successfully be mounted in the UK should suh a licensed driver subsequently drive in the UK while in possession of the old photocard.

The issue about changing when 70 is fairly worn ground in the UK as there is such a large cohort of older holders of paper licences which live overseas (mostly in Spain) and who relaise at the age of 70 that they need to apply for a Spanish licence which may or may not be straightfoward.

An uncle has recently had to do this - he returned to Ireland in the late 70s but continued to drive on his GB licence until this year (when he turned 70) As I understand it, the process was quite simple.

The real issue is for holders of photocards when they expire - if you apply for a renewal with a "false" or accommodation address, you are committing an offence and not one which I think would be looked on kindly.

Yes it's fair to say I went round the houses trying to establish this for certain with the DVLA when I moved over to Ireland (officially) in 2008! The official guidance was that you can drive in Ireland on a GB licence until it "expires", whereupon it must be exchanged for a native one. Conversely in GB you have to exchange three years after becoming resident.

I wasn't actually that bothered about the traffic stop element of it, it did become a royal PITA when renting cars though as my driving licence and credit card address didn't match. I would also be concerned about the insurance aspect as any policy would presumably have a clause about a "valid" licence, and according to DVLA strictly speaking your GB licence is invalid (although not expired) if the address details on it are not current.

Anyway for me personally it's a moot point as I exchanged my (massively out of date) UK address for a current photocard one when I moved back to the Uk this year.

Cheers for the info.

Our man in Havana

The real issue is for holders of photocards when they expire - if you apply for a renewal with a "false" or accommodation address, you are committing an offence and not one which I think would be looked on kindly.

Who is going to do the prosecuting? Considering it is a bit tough if that person is not there. How will they detect the offence?

Also the DVLA are happy if the address supplied is an address at which the person may be contacted at. It does not state you have to live there.