Scantime PLC course

Ging Ging

http://www.scantime-training.com/online-plc--scada-programming-courses-8-c.asp
Has anybody had any dealings with this online training company? The price is very affordable. I want to get a grounding in PLCs but I'm not in a position
to take anything on at the moment.
I would realistically be looking at taking a course after May (when most part time training courses in Ireland cease) and this is the most impressive I've found so far.

Ging Ging

Ging Ging wrote: »

http://www.scantime-training.com/online-plc--scada-programming-courses-8-c.asp
Has anybody had any dealings with this online training company? The price is very affordable. I want to get a grounding in PLCs but I'm not in a position
to take anything on at the moment.
I would realistically be looking at taking a course after May (when most part time training courses in Ireland cease) and this is the most impressive I've found so far.

Ideally in time Id take a full course in person but for the moment to get started Im a bit restricted by cost and availability. So an online course might be a good fit.

Can the experienced guys on here give some feedback on the course content up to and including level 2. Im not too worried about certification at the moment.

Thanks

moonlighting

why not just buy a second hand plc on ebay uk for around 100euros and learn it yourself.

Ging Ging

Fair point moonlighting, but I currently only know some basic ladder logic. I'd like some sort of structure to get me going. I agree getting my hands on the real thing is the only way yo really learn but I'm hoping to get advanced entry onto a degree (4th year if possible) with a fair bit of PLC content next September.

I'm by no means assured of being offered a place as my current degree is lacking in PLC content. If I was to get offered a place I would need to catch up pretty fast. I'd be hoping to use a course like this or a similar one over the summer to help get up to speed on the theory end of things before gaining the practical from September onward.

2011

I am sure that you would gain some important knowledge from these courses but I would not expect a potential employer or college to be impressed.

From a quick read of the website the courses do not seem to be accredited and there is no mention of control theory (this would be a large component of degree course that focuses on automation). Customer reviews do not mention any well known companies (or any companies at all). Also what qualification is awarded ? They are very fuzzy on that too.

Having said that Siemens (in particular the S7 and step 7) and Allen Bradley are excellent PLCs used commonly in industry.

Ging Ging

Thanks 2011,
Thats the kind of informed feedback I was looking for. For the price and delivery method I suppose I couldn't really expect loads from this course. Some experience rather than specific accreditation or expertise is the short term goal. From what you've said I know a bit more of what to expect and more importantly what not to expect if I do go ahead with it.
My only other real option is the night course in Dundalk next Spring and I've heard that it is quite outdated (and also unaccredited). So I think I'll give that one a miss.

2011

I hope I have not sounded too negative about these very affordable courses. Perhaps it would be best to discuss it with the college that you intend to enroll with.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

darragh o meara

What brand of PLC do you intend working on? I've done a lot with the Mitsubishi fx units this year as part of my degree but also done a heap of home study on them too. If your doing the Mitsubishi one there is a great book I can recommend getting, wont get you a qualification but will sure as hell help you when you need to get one up and going.

I asked about doing plc training before and getting certified but my lecturer who dealt with plcs of every variety for years in his past employment told me that because there is so many different types, you'd be a long time getting them all and usually companies will train you on their chosen brands. However he did say a good understanding of one type will help a lot when tackling another.

2011

darragh o meara wrote: »

What brand of PLC do you intend working on? I've done a lot with the Mitsubishi fx units this year as part of my degree but also done a heap of home study on them too.

I used these in college too, but I have yet to see them used in industry. I mainly see Siemens and Allen Bradley.

However he did say a good understanding of one type will help a lot when tackling another.

+1
The principle of operation is the same or very similar.

brightspark

A lot of useful free stuff here..


http://www.plcs.net/

Philistine

In my opinion, hands-on training / practice is the best way to learn about PLC’s. Choose one manufacturer and learn it well. As previously mentioned, Siemens and Allen Bradley are the most popular brands used in industry. Why not download the free Siemens Step 7 PLC (limited) software and teach yourself. All the manuals are available for download from the website too, There are basic tutorials in some of the manuals that you can use to learn how to develop code. Also, check out youtube for free training tutorials.

In my experience, very few companies will spend the time or money training you in basic PLC programming. A quick scan of any recruitment website for automation positions will always require the prospective candidate to have experience in at least one brand of PLC programming.

Buying a PLC on eBay might not be the best option either. The cheaper models are usually very basic and can only be programmed in ladder logic. Ladder logic on its own is rarely used in industry as it is very limited in what it can do. Function blocks and statement list are more common. You might be able to buy a more advanced PLC on the web but also consider the cost of the software and licenses which can run into hundreds of euros even second hand.

Obviously there’s no certificate for teaching yourself but demonstrable skills will also impress an employer and maybe even a course lecturer.

Here’s the link to Siemens Step 7 Lite.

http://www.plcdev.com/review_of_siemens_simatic_step_7_lite_programming_software

Best of luck whatever you do.

2011

Philistine wrote: »

In my opinion, hands-on training / practice is the best way to learn about PLC’s. Choose one manufacturer and learn it well. As previously mentioned, Siemens and Allen Bradley are the most popular brands used in industry. Why not download the free Siemens Step 7 PLC (limited) software and teach yourself. All the manuals are available for download from the website too, There are basic tutorials in some of the manuals that you can use to learn how to develop code. Also, check out youtube for free training tutorials.

+1

In my experience, very few companies will spend the time or money training you in basic PLC programming. A quick scan of any recruitment website for automation positions will always require the prospective candidate to have experience in at least one brand of PLC programming.

Agree totally.

Ladder logic on its own is rarely used in industry as it is very limited in what it can do.

I don't agree.

For example I know some pharmaceutical companies use ladder logic for some of their systems.
The site policy for some pharma plants is that ladder logic is must be used up until the process gets to a certain level of complexity, then SFC is used.

Philistine

2011 wrote: »

I don't agree.

For example I know some pharmaceutical companies use ladder logic for some of their systems.
The site policy for some pharma plants is that ladder logic is must be used up until the process gets to a certain level of complexity, then SFC is used.

Sorry, but going to have to disagree with you on this. I’ve been programming PLC’s in pharmaceuticals for nearly ten years now and I have never used ladder logic on its own. Also, no pharmaceutical company has ever dictated to me what type of code to use (ladder, SL, FB, SFC etc…). As previously stated, a combination of ladder logic and Function Blocks is most common.
Siemens Simatic S7, which we both acknowledge to be one of the leading brands used in industry, is based on Function Blocks. How do you read analog signals from instruments using ladder logic? I’m not saying Ladder Logic is not used, I’m just saying it’s never used on its own due to its limitations.

2011

Philistine wrote: »

I’ve been programming PLC’s in pharmaceuticals for nearly ten years now and I have never used ladder logic on its own.

I don't doubt you, but that is not what I have seen.

In some cases the client has specified requested that I state in the engineering specification that ladder logic is to be employed.

In the last case this was due to the simplicity of a non validated system.
It was for a safety system that simply activated a number slam shut valves and warning lights when various detectors were triggered.

How do you read analog signals from instruments using ladder logic?

I am a bit confused by this question, but I will attempt to answer it.

The analog instrument will send a 4 to 20mA signal to one of the channels on the AI card (normally 8 channels on an Siemens AI card). There will be a 32 bit data register associated with each analog input (as the analog input card is effectively a ADC). It will write a value into the data register corresponding to the magnitude of the analog signal. This value can easily be used in ladder logic as part of a control system.

In college I set up buffers in ladder logic to read analog instrument. The buffers were used to set up things such as sampling rates and as far as I can recall we could also configure it to read mean values. I did all of this using ladder logic.

My hands on experience of programming PLCs is limited to what I did in college. However using a rather basic PLC and ladder logic I was able to read and write analog values and implement PID control.


I fully except your point that ladder logic has limitations. This is why (as already stated) it has only been requested from me for less complex systems. I assume that the reason is that it allows the E & I maintenance to manipulate the code easliy without requiring the expense of an automation engineer.

muff03

2011 wrote: »

I don't doubt you, but that is not what I have seen.

In some cases the client has specified requested that I state in the engineering specification that ladder logic is to be employed.

In the last case this was due to the simplicity of a non validated system.
It was for a safety system that simply activated a number slam shut valves and warning lights when various detectors were triggered.



I am a bit confused by this question, but I will attempt to answer it.

The analog instrument will send a 4 to 20mA signal to one of the channels on the AI card (normally 8 channels on an Siemens AI card). There will be a 32 bit data register associated with each analog input (as the analog input card is effectively a ADC). It will write a value into the data register corresponding to the magnitude of the analog signal. This value can easily be used in ladder logic as part of a control system.

In college I set up buffers in ladder logic to read analog instrument. The buffers were used to set up things such as sampling rates and as far as I can recall we could also configure it to read mean values. I did all of this using ladder logic.

My hands on experience of programming PLCs is limited to what I did in college. However using a rather basic PLC and ladder logic I was able to read and write analog values and implement PID control.


I fully except your point that ladder logic has limitations. This is why (as already stated) it has only been requested from me for less complex systems. I assume that the reason is that it allows the E & I maintenance to manipulate the code easliy without requiring the expense of an automation engineer.

Sorry for quoting the whole thing, but the phone is giving jip. Out of curiosity, would you not have had to use function blocks for linear scaling of the analogue inputs at some stage? Or how did ye do it, did the card do the scaling for you?

Philistine

2011 wrote: »

In college I set up buffers in ladder logic to read analog instrument. The buffers were used to set up things such as sampling rates and as far as I can recall we could also configure it to read mean values. I did all of this using ladder logic.

Ah come on, this is for learning controls in college not real world stuff. Function blocks are used for this. I used Labview in college for learning SCADA but have never encountered it in industry.

I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this point?

darragh o meara

Not too take away from the original post but could any of you Plc veterans give a list of what kinda plc areas that would be worth a bit closer scrutiny for someone who is due to leave college soon and go looking for work in that area.

Philistine

darragh o meara wrote: »

Not too take away from the original post but could any of you Plc veterans give a list of what kinda plc areas that would be worth a bit closer scrutiny for someone who is due to leave college soon and go looking for work in that area.

Best advice I can give is to pick one of the two leading brands of PLC used in industry, Siemens or Allen Bradley, and learn it well. But dont stop there. PLC programming is only part of the controls package. Knowing how to configure HMI's using WinCC Flex or Wonderware etc... and how to network HMI's to PLC's and remote i/o using Ethernet, Profibus or Devicenet will be a huge bonus when applying for a job.

strandsman

Has anybody completed the Scantime PLC courses recently? I am looking to complete a PLC training course to top up my CV but although this has no accreditation is it worth the time to do it? What accredited PLC courses are out there online?