Leap card users to get free travel rewards - Indo

lil5

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/leap-card-users-to-get-free-travel-rewards-3320172.html


Leap card users to get free travel rewards

COMMUTERS who use the smart travel Leap card will enjoy free public transport after making a certain number of trips every day.

The National Transport Authority (NTA) plans to cap the maximum amount charged to bus, train and Luas users in an effort to reward people who switch to public transport.

The details will not be announced until next year, but a spokeswoman said it would benefit commuters who use public transport to make a number of different trips every day.

It is currently being tested on the Luas, but will be expanded to all operators – DART/Commuter trains, Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann and some private coach operators – next year.

...

Some 182,000 cards have been issued to date after almost one year – 50pc ahead of projections.

...

foggy_lad

lil5 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/leap-card-users-to-get-free-travel-rewards-3320172.html


Leap card users to get free travel rewards

COMMUTERS who use the smart travel Leap card will enjoy free public transport after making a certain number of trips every day.

The National Transport Authority (NTA) plans to cap the maximum amount charged to bus, train and Luas users in an effort to reward people who switch to public transport.

The details will not be announced until next year, but a spokeswoman said it would benefit commuters who use public transport to make a number of different trips every day.

It is currently being tested on the Luas, but will be expanded to all operators – DART/Commuter trains, Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann and some private coach operators – next year.

...

Some 182,000 cards have been issued to date after almost one year – 50pc ahead of projections.

...

What a load of rubbish! Details to be announced next year, so that will probably be next Christmas with the actual process of capping taking another few years to implement!

Also it is not giving anyone free transport because they will have paid the appropriate amount of a one day pass! There is no element of rewarding those who use public transport in this announcement as these rewards are available already for people who buy seasonal, weekly, monthly and daily tickets!

AngryLips

Is the title of this article just another example of The Independent regurgitating press releases without applying any actual 'journalism' to the stories they run?

I can't make out from the spin on this news if it's actual price capping that we can expect or if it's some sort of convoluted loyalty scheme that's meant to obscure the fact that the rewards are puny.

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

What a load of rubbish! Details to be announced next year, so that will probably be next Christmas with the actual process of capping taking another few years to implement!

Also it is not giving anyone free transport because they will have paid the appropriate amount of a one day pass! There is no element of rewarding those who use public transport in this announcement as these rewards are available already for people who buy seasonal, weekly, monthly and daily tickets!

Sorry foggy but where can i currently buy a day pass that works on the Luas, Dublin Bus & Irish Rail?:rolleyes:

LXFlyer

AngryLips wrote: »

Is the title of this article just another example of The Independent regurgitating press releases without applying any actual 'journalism' to the stories they run?

I can't make out from the spin on this news if it's actual price capping that we can expect or if it's some sort of convoluted loyalty scheme that's meant to obscure the fact that the rewards are puny.

It's price capping.

AngryLips

If they're able to come out with price capping by the end of Q1 2013 then they'll have this feature up and running in a shorter timeframe when compared to London's Oyster card from date of launch.

foggy_lad

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Sorry foggy but where can i currently buy a day pass that works on the Luas, Dublin Bus & Irish Rail?:rolleyes:

Have Leap shown or given any indication that they have the competence to provide the promised features? There is currently no real evidence that they can make this work across Dublin bus, Irish Rail, Bus Eireann and private coach operators or that it is actually possible!

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

Have Leap shown or given any indication that they have the competence to provide the promised features? There is currently no real evidence that they can make this work across Dublin bus, Irish Rail, Bus Eireann and private coach operators or that it is actually possible!

Sorry not seeing where you've answered my question there. So I'm presuming you're now admitting that there are no current day passes available that work on Luas, DB and IE?

The card currently works so why do you think a cap can't?

Del2005

AngryLips wrote: »

If they're able to come out with price capping by the end of Q1 2013 then they'll have this feature up and running in a shorter timeframe when compared to London's Oyster card from date of launch.

It's already been done and it's taking them ages to do launch it. It should be off the shelf technology by now and should have been in form launch.

If LEAP and Oyster came out at the same time they could brag about having it first, they don't. They are taking ages to implement something already implemented on other systems.

LXFlyer

This is not the same as oyster as each operator retains revenues here and is responsible for their own costs. This makes the entire process far more complex.

London is totally different with centralised revenue/costs.

Dravokivich

foggy_lad wrote: »

Have Leap shown or given any indication that they have the competence to provide the promised features? There is currently no real evidence that they can make this work across Dublin bus, Irish Rail, Bus Eireann and private coach operators or that it is actually possible!

Can't tell if you're playing devils advocate or if you really expect to be dripped every bit of information that means nothing to a regular user until its released.

AngryLips

Del2005 wrote: »

It's already been done and it's taking them ages to do launch it. It should be off the shelf technology by now and should have been in form launch.

If LEAP and Oyster came out at the same time they could brag about having it first, they don't. They are taking ages to implement something already implemented on other systems.

When Oyster was launched it had already been done in other cities as well, didn't mean they did it any faster. I was just making a comparison, I'm sure there'll be plenty to criticise when it gets to implementation phase.

Be well and win

Del2005 wrote: »

It's already been done and it's taking them ages to do launch it. It should be off the shelf technology by now and should have been in form launch.

If LEAP and Oyster came out at the same time they could brag about having it first, they don't. They are taking ages to implement something already implemented on other systems.

they did buy "off the shelf technology" in that the system is largely identical to what is being used in I think Singapore. However that may be part of the problem in that things like banking regulation and data protection ( which underpin any system like this) are very different over there and it's probable that what are seen as delays are in fact down to customising the technology that's been used for Ireland

Personnaly, any problems I've had with leap have been down to the incompetence of Irish rail, not with the card itself. In additon, and as anyone who lived in London in the nineties and noughties, these things take time to roll out and I'd prefer to see them take their time and do it right

Carawaystick

Be well and win wrote: »

, these things take time to roll out and I'd prefer to see them take their time and do it right

As opposed to the current system of taking their time and making a hames of it.

Be well and win

There are 2 different things here, firstly, the delay in getting things up and running which I absolutely agree was farcical. What I find interesting is that it is only when 2 American IT multinationals get involved in the set up and operation, it is only then that things really get cracking. The contract to build the system was I believe only signed about 3/3.5 years ago and in fairness, the basic core of the operational system has been delivered in a timeframe similer to other countries. What was happening in the 5 years prior to that is a different issue and that's where the scandal is.

AlekSmart

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Sorry foggy but where can i currently buy a day pass that works on the Luas, Dublin Bus & Irish Rail?:rolleyes:

Tread carefully here scheming....whilst I am always ready to be amazed by the resilience of FL's posts,I'm kinda leaning towards his interpretation of the LeapCard scenario here.

FWIW,my understanding is that the "Capping" when it appears will be mode specific..ie: A One-Day Rambler for the Bus,plus whichever one-day product is relevant to the other modes.

The Independent article,unsurprisingly,fails to ask the relevant and long unanswered questions as to what the "Integrated" part of this scheme actually means.

I am also somewhat bamboozled by the abject lack of marketing on LeapCard's behalf......the Fare Rise period was the golden opportunity for a bit of Aldi/Lidl'ing....."Why pay €280 Cash when you can pay €2.45 LEAP".....In your face every time you stepped onto a Bus....Posters,Flyers,Operatives at busy locations......instead we got......silence ....It's an odd way of Launching any product ?

I'm not exactly overwhelemed by that 180,000 users figure either...I would suggest that by this stage (:o) we need 250,000 to be seing any real return on the €40 Million ??

Perhaps I should e-mail Feargal Quinn ?

Dravokivich

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm not exactly overwhelemed by that 180,000 users figure either...I would suggest that by this stage (:o) we need 250,000 to be seing any real return on the €40 Million ??

Another thing missing from the article is that new students, or students renewing their travel cards have to get one. Forcing someone to use it, isn't exactly a sign of take up for the product when they need get one.

Stevek101

Dravokivich wrote: »

Another thing missing from the article is that new students, or students renewing their travel cards have to get one. Forcing someone to use it, isn't exactly a sign of take up for the product when they need get one.

Figures from Oct 30

Total Cards issued

Luas replacements 7,666
Irish Rail replacements 3,106
Payzone sales 97,097
Web sales 26,306
Student travel Leap cards 28,473
Irish Rail TVM sales 6,263

Total Card Issues 168,910

Also some more details on the expected launch of these extra features.

Q4
•Fare capping on Luas
•Auto-top facility customer pilot
•Bus Éireann launch
•Additional private bus operators

Q1/Q2
•Fare capping on Iarnród Éireann & Dublin Bus
•Taxsaver annual & monthly cards
•Range of time-based products
•Integration with Free Travel Scheme

All taken from their latest presentation on the project.

AngryLips

Dravokivich wrote: »

Another thing missing from the article is that new students, or students renewing their travel cards have to get one. Forcing someone to use it, isn't exactly a sign of take up for the product when they need get one.

hmm, it kinda makes sense though

AlekSmart

Stevek101 wrote: »

Figures from Oct 30

Also some more details on the expected launch of these extra features.

All taken from their latest presentation on the project.

Q1/Q2
•Fare capping on Iarnród Éireann & Dublin Bus
•Taxsaver annual & monthly cards
•Range of time-based products
•Integration with Free Travel Scheme

HMMMMMM...I repeat HMMMMMMMMM,what all this then.....Is the DSP aware of this,or even involved in it ???

Well,you live and learn.

Mind you it confirms that the Daily Cap,will be on a individual mode basis...hardly a One-Day Travelcard is it ?

Oh well....:cool:

foggy_lad

Dravokivich wrote: »

Can't tell if you're playing devils advocate or if you really expect to be dripped every bit of information that means nothing to a regular user until its released.

Even a timeframe would be a start but saying "coming soon" for well over a year is describing something that is not due any time!

bk

AlekSmart wrote: »

HMMMMMM...I repeat HMMMMMMMMM,what all this then.....Is the DSP aware of this,or even involved in it ???

While the card may come from the DSP, I expect that the travel element of it will use 100% of the "Leap" infrastructure.

Sure it won't have the Leap e-purse, but I expect it will:

- Use the same contact less RFID standard
- The same validators as Leap
- The same backend systems and infrastructure
- The same validators for ticket inspectors

So while the DSP might brand it as their own card and issue it themselves, I fully expect it to be using all the Leap technology.

To do otherwise would be madness.

Losty Dublin

bk wrote: »

While the card may come from the DSP, I expect that the travel element of it will use 100% of the "Leap" infrastructure.

Sure it won't have the Leap e-purse, but I expect it will:

- Use the same contact less RFID standard
- The same validators as Leap
- The same backend systems and infrastructure
- The same validators for ticket inspectors

So while the DSP might brand it as their own card and issue it themselves, I fully expect it to be using all the Leap technology.

To do otherwise would be madness.

The new Public Services Card is supposed to be used as a travel card. Now, if this means it has LEAP functionality it will be a step forward as it will be built in with photo ID, passenger informmation and if required, user restrictions and allowances if need be.

However, if it's merely replacing the chest tapping paper rag pass of old then it's an expensive exercise of futility. It's just a newer version of what we have now, it's liable to take years to phase in, it will cause front line arguments with staff and it will not improve anything to any great deal.

I suspect that the latter will be closer to the reality than the former.

bk

Well I believe the idea was always the former.

The only argument was if people would be simply issued with Leap cards or was the functionality going to be integrated into a DSP card, issued by the DSP and which did other things and held additional information (e.g. biometrics to receive unemployment payments, etc.).

Dravokivich

I thought it was going to be a Leap enabled DSP card myself. Was thinking that whenever they eventually get tickets loaded onto leap, they'd be able to configure a "free travel" type of ticket, to load onto a leap enabled DSP card. Since they are going the smart card route themselves.

bk

Dravokivich wrote: »

I thought it was going to be a Leap enabled DSP card myself. Was thinking that whenever they eventually get tickets loaded onto leap, they'd be able to configure a "free travel" type of ticket, to load onto a leap enabled DSP card. Since they are going the smart card route themselves.

I think this was what the argument was about.

Could you just load a "free travel" on a leap card with ID.

Or do they add Leap functionality to a DSP card.

Dravokivich

Well, don't think they'd allow it to be loaded onto any of the leap cards out now, they all look differently visually to quickly identify whether or not the user is meant to be using it. They also seem to have different ranges for card numbers. So could quite easily be limited in such a way if DSP cards had their own range held.

foggy_lad

The new free travel pass also has to be used in many situations where there is no leap functioning available like with all bus Eireann services and all the many private operators who currently accept the pass. These new passes will still have to hold all the passengers details(name, address, date of birth, pps number, signature, security feature, etc) in a visible format so as to identify the passenger and also to show them as being in receipt of free travel on buses and ferries and other forms of transport which will not have any leap capability.

the groutch

Q1/Q2
•Fare capping on Iarnród Éireann & Dublin Bus
•Taxsaver annual & monthly cards
•Range of time-based products
•Integration with Free Travel Scheme

I assume then they have no plans to scrap the taxsaver scheme, as with the massive increases in the price of the T90, and to a lesser extent the Ramblers, I'll be getting an annual taxsaver this time next year (too late for 2013)

And hopefully integration with the Free Travel Scheme will lead to the end of free travel, and a small nominal payment per journey via Leap.

foggy_lad

the groutch wrote: »

I assume then they have no plans to scrap the taxsaver scheme, as with the massive increases in the price of the T90, and to a lesser extent the Ramblers, I'll be getting an annual taxsaver this time next year (too late for 2013)

And hopefully integration with the Free Travel Scheme will lead to the end of free travel, and a small nominal payment per journey via Leap.

Leap is only an option for the DSP in Dublin and is unlikely to be rolled out countrywide considering the massive issues faced in rolling it out in Dublin as a simple e-purse, I would think it will be used on Dublin bus only to record a passenger getting on the bus and by Irish rail in the same way they currently issue tickets, just to count the number of journeys. At the moment there is pretty much nothing the leap card can do except pay for individual single tickets so what makes you think that will change after more than a year of empty promises of functionality "coming soon"?

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

Leap is only an option for the DSP in Dublin and is unlikely to be rolled out countrywide considering the massive issues faced in rolling it out in Dublin as a simple e-purse

That is a big and I believe incorrect presumption.

Leap is coming to Bus Eireann in the wider Dublin region, including surrounding counties.

It isn't such a great leap (sigh!!) to imagine it be rolled out to the rest of the BE city fleets in Galway, Cork, etc. and Irish Rail commuter services.

It should be pretty straight forward and assume it will happen in time.

Stevek101

The Leap Card Capping functionality for Luas was turned on before the start of Luas services at 5.30am on Monday 17th December 2012.

You don’t need to do anything; just your use your Leap Card as normal. The Caps will be applied automatically.

Don’t forget to Touch On and Touch Off with your Leap Card for all journeys as normal so you are charged the right amount and so that you have a valid ticket to travel on Luas.

Daily Cap = first to last tram on any given day.

Weekly Cap (Mon-Sun) = first tram on Monday to last tram on Sunday.

http://www.luas.ie/introducing-leapcard-capping.html

AngryLips

Shame it's not done over a seven day rolling period but that would probably be too 'smart'

LeftBlank

AngryLips wrote: »

Shame it's not done over a seven day rolling period but that would probably be too 'smart'

Oyster does not have multi-day capping, so I guess in this respect Leap is actually ahead of it.

AngryLips

Am I right in understanding that capping is restricted between modes for the moment, so the Bus+Rail tickets or the Luas Combi tickets will not come under Leap for now? I wonder if capping will be applied in respect of journeys that benefit from Travel90 type journey patterns...

LXFlyer

The capping is initially on LUAS only. Maximum that can be deducted is the price of a one day or weekly ticket as appropriate.

Other operators and then multi-mode are in later phases.

etchyed

Stevek101 wrote: »

http://www.luas.ie/introducing-leapcard-capping.html

Been a bloody long time coming but at least it's finally here. This makes me a little more optimistic about the Leap project. I'd imagine we're still some way away from multi-modal capping, however, and I wouldn't blame the NTA for that.

EDIT: Also worth noting that the 7-day cap is equivalent to the "flexi ticket" fare from 7 January 2013 - valid on all zones in both lines. I wouldn't imagine this is a ticket very commonly used, given that Luas users tend to either use one line or the other. I understand there are probably concerns about revenue if a full range of 7-day zone-specific caps were introduced. And like I said above, any progress is to be welcomed. But surely the ability to load 7-day tickets onto a Leap card is well overdue at this stage. I don't understand how this could be more technically complex than fare capping.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

The capping is initially on LUAS only. Maximum that can be deducted is the price of a one day or weekly ticket as appropriate.

Other operators and then multi-mode are in later phases.

I think the Luas capping may well be the first outing for Leapcard,s capability to differentiate Student from Adult fares,presumably the Student Leapcard is encoded differently.

The current Dual Purpose Student ID/LeapCard is somewhat convoluted when the Card could process the entire thing within itself.