Refunded Withdrawl?

crackit

Asking on behalf of a mate here.

The bet went on 'in running' during the England v India cricket game. He bet over 2.5 runs in a particular over of the game. England scored 6 runs in that over. Bet wins.

He had €400 in his account so cashed it all out right away leaving himself with €0.

Then his account changed to -€400. In his transaction history the bet was manually adjusted to a loser (I've no idea why). He mailed and complained. His account was reset to €0 so he thought they had honoured the bet.

Now there is a transaction in his account showing 'Refunded Withdrawl' of €400.

Does this mean that the money he withdrew isn't going to go to his bank account? Are they saying the withdrawl is cancelled and refunded to cover the alleged -€400?

He will find out in a week if he waits to see what happens with the bank but he doesn't want to wait that long to challenge it if they are claiming his winning bet wasn't a winner.

Can anyone clarify what a 'Refunded Withdrawl' is?

Scummy business by the way. Manually changing a winning bet to a loser? WTF is that about?

Some clarity would be welcome. Cheers

Collie D

Unless there are some circumstances which aren't obvious from the post (eg he bet on the current over but bet related to next over or something) then I would guess it's an error on the bookie's part. Everyone makes them and hopefully will be rectified quick enough...if not get on to them

crackit

No mistake. He has all the screen grabs of the bet and the confirmation of the payout.

You can see what over he bet on. And in that over 6 runs were scored to win the bet.

If €400 lands in his bank then there is no issue and his winner has been honoured.

If the 'Refunded Withdrawl' was used to negate his alleged -€400 debt then it's a different ball game because it will mean his bet wasn't honoured.

I know mistakes can be made but what we both find shocking is that someone manually adjusted the bet to a loser.

Manual adjustment : Adj to Payout Bet Number: 0000224 - Bet resettled as a loser, event escalation

Bizarre

crackit

I found out what it is. They have stopped the money from going into his bank account and are therefore refusing to pay out on the bet. Disgusting carry on.

Collie D

crackit wrote: »

I found out what it is. They have stopped the money from going into his bank account and are therefore refusing to pay out on the bet. Disgusting carry on.

And what was the reason they gave? They can;t call a winnner a loser...I understand if they offer obviously incorrect odds they can correct it but a winner's a winner. What's their say?

cup of tea

Seeing as it was in play perhaps he the overs bet was made after an over had been made and the bookie made a mistake by offering the market/not moving the line. My account was minused 2K + one time, before this I had never seen a minused account. Bookie seemed to have tried to rectify a mistake but it was alway winging its way to my bank account and my account was reset to zero.

Mezcita

Assuming this is one of the better known books I think the only reason they would not honour the bet would be if there was a mistake on the price offered.

If your mate is 100% convinced that there was no price error get him to complain to SportsBookReview.com. They are usually pretty good at getting bookies to behave themselves.

Howjoe1

maybe the odds was matched on the next over and not the one he thought? Who was the bet with?

crackit

No he bet well in advance of the over in question. He put the bet on 2 balls into the 108th over. At least 2-3 minutes before the over in question he bet on commenced.

What I posted is the only answer he got. Hes mailed them and rang them but got no joy. No answer via mail. And the customer support on the phone couldn't give an answer and took his name, number and e-mail and said they'll be in touch. Nothing back in the last 36 hours.

Like you say if the odds were adjusted, fair enough, but it's still a winner. The bet was made well in advance and was a winner. It was paid out as a winner. Then about 10 minutes later someone manually adjusted it to a loss. Absolute bulls*it in my book and anyone with a bit of sense book I reckon.

They aren't even refunding him and saying it was no bet. They are saying that the bet placed on England to score over 2.5 runs in the 109th over lost.

You can adjust the price. Adjust the amount of runs from 2.5 to 3.5 runs or 4.5 runs. What you can't do is claim that the bet didn't win.

108.1
Ashwin to Cook, FOUR, tossed up outside off and when air is offered there is a little but of turn, Cook flashes at it and gets a thick outside edge, very safe, four to third man

108.2
Ashwin to Cook, no run, turn again there from outside off, another flash from Cook who misses by a long way

108.3
Ashwin to Cook, no run, covered up now on off stump

108.4
Ashwin to Cook, 1 run, careful press in front of point

108.5
Ashwin to Trott, no run, turned with the spin to midwicket on the front foot

108.6
Ashwin to Trott, 1 run, too straight and worked through square leg from the crease

End of over 109 (6 runs) England 304/1

crackit

Lads there is no mistake with what he placed whatsoever. It was with Ladbrokes. It won and for some reason known only to themselves they won't pay up. It's still in his transaction history for jaysus sake!

Selection Selection Details Result
1.
Bet In Play - Live
India 316 241/9 v England 523
ENG 1st Innings Runs in Next Over : 109
Bet placed 'in play'
2012-12-09 03:30:00
Over 2.5 @ evens
Settled

They haven't got an answer for him and don't seem in a hurry to provide one.

Collie D

Possibly an extremely stupid question here but I'll fire away anyway.

Why is each ball marked 108.1, 108.2, etc. instead of 109.1, 109.2? Is the first over 0.1, 0.2...? Maybe this is the confusion?

crackit

Yeah spot on Collie D. That's how it's done. 108.1 signifies 108 overs and 1 ball have been played meaning the game is in the 109th over. As you can see marked at the end of the commentary it says end of 109th over. I play cricket myself so trust me it's not the wrong over.

It's like the first minute of a football match doesn't start at 1 minute. It starts at 0:01 seconds.

Collie D

Can't see the issue then, from all of that info bet's a winner in my book. Keep at them

crackit

Yeah he has no intention of letting it go. I'm annoyed on his behalf as well!

It's a winner and was paid out on and that should have stood. We don't know why someone manually went in and made it a loser 10 minutes later. Any ideas lads?

I'm dying to hear what the excuse will be if they ever get back to him via e-mail or phone.

Howjoe1

Evens for over 2.5 runs seems an error . If clearly out of synch with market odds..they would have rules to settle at correct odds. maybe they have to call back the €400 to then adjust at the correct odds.

Are Ladbrokes not communicating any info?

crackit

No communication. He rang and whoever he got said they couldn't help him and they'd have to go up the ladder. Hasn't had a call back. Sent a mail to complain too and just got an automated reply and nothing else.

For the record I'm no gambling expert but I've looked at the in running and I don't think it's clearly out of synch with market odds. The previous ten overs produced these runs 0, 2, 0, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0 so the overs had only hit once in ten. If the runs are flowing they change the overs from 2.5 to 3.5 and then cut the odds back to 5/6.

Anyway that's neither here nor there. It's on his account as a loss after being manually adjusted. If they can manually adjust the win to a loss surely they could just as easily have adjust the odds from evens to 5/6?

Howjoe1

crackit wrote: »

No communication. He rang and whoever he got said they couldn't help him and they'd have to go up the ladder. Hasn't had a call back. Sent a mail to complain too and just got an automated reply and nothing else.

For the record I'm no gambling expert but I've looked at the in running and I don't think it's clearly out of synch with market odds. The previous ten overs produced these runs 0, 2, 0, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0 so the overs had only hit once in ten. If the runs are flowing they change the overs from 2.5 to 3.5 and then cut the odds back to 5/6.

Anyway that's neither here nor there. It's on his account as a loss after being manually adjusted. If they can manually adjust the win to a loss surely they could just as easily have adjust the odds from evens to 5/6?

I've no definite knowledge of the odds and your argument re run flow sounds like it might have been a fair price. I have written many separate threads about bookmaker's bad customer service and read many to. And the name that always comes out on top (a quick google would prove it) is LADBROKES!

So I'm not really too surprised about your mates treatment. There should be communication from Ladcrooks on this, sounds like pure bad manners.

They've taken his stake money as well , if I read it correctly? I can only assume that the "stopped" withdrawal has to show up back on their side before they can take next step...but Ladbrokes have an obligation to answer this.

DB74

crackit wrote: »

Selection Selection Details Result
1.
Bet In Play - Live
India 316 241/9 v England 523
ENG 1st Innings Runs in Next Over : 109
Bet placed 'in play'
2012-12-09 03:30:00
Over 2.5 @ evens
Settled

Can you post the remainder of the bet-transaction history. Maybe a screenshot. This should show when the bet was placed etc.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

Are you sure your mate backed the right over?

Football Gambler

I know this might sound daft, but maybe the person at the bookmaker in question who manually changed the bet to a loser, doesn't get the process of cricket, and is classing the bet as a loser based on the 110th Over??

The person may have mistakenly settled the bet on what happened in Over 109.1, 109.2 etc, instead of Over 108.1, 108.2, etc??

Just a thought I had, because if they were just trying to get out of paying up, I'm sure they would have found something in their T+C's to hide behind and get out of paying up......... (they did that to me a few years back, that's why I never use them to this day).

Unless the person in question understands the workings of cricket, they might be confused and think they are doing the right thing........ and I know I'm giving them a very big benefit of the doubt there before I get hammered.....

crackit

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Are you sure your mate backed the right over?

Ah lads come on. How many times does it need to be clarified that he bet on the correct over and that the over produced a winning result.


Anyway the eventually got back to him. The reason they refunded the withdrawal................. (drum roll)

He never placed the bet :eek: Seriously that's what they said. So he rang up and asked them wtf they were on about. The bet didn't just appear in there by itself.

Then they had a sudden change of heart soon after and decided he did place the bet but that it was a loser.

Again he pointed out that this wasn't true. Then they had another change of heart and claimed the bet was void (Without giving a reason). So he said, where is my stake money back then if it was a void bet?, and again the silence has been deafening.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

crackit wrote: »

Ah lads come on. How many times does it need to be clarified that he bet on the correct over and that the over produced a winning result.


Anyway the eventually got back to him. The reason they refunded the withdrawal................. (drum roll)

He never placed the bet :eek: Seriously that's what they said. So he rang up and asked them wtf they were on about. The bet didn't just appear in there by itself.

Then they had a sudden change of heart soon after and decided he did place the bet but that it was a loser.

Again he pointed out that this wasn't true. Then they had another change of heart and claimed the bet was void (Without giving a reason). So he said, where is my stake money back then if it was a void bet?, and again the silence has been deafening.

Over €200? Sounds a bit weird to me. Have never had something like this happen myself. Sorry to hear about it though and hope you mate gets the money back and his winnings.

Football Gambler

crackit wrote: »

Ah lads come on. How many times does it need to be clarified that he bet on the correct over and that the over produced a winning result.


Anyway the eventually got back to him. The reason they refunded the withdrawal................. (drum roll)

He never placed the bet :eek: Seriously that's what they said. So he rang up and asked them wtf they were on about. The bet didn't just appear in there by itself.

Then they had a sudden change of heart soon after and decided he did place the bet but that it was a loser.

Again he pointed out that this wasn't true. Then they had another change of heart and claimed the bet was void (Without giving a reason). So he said, where is my stake money back then if it was a void bet?, and again the silence has been deafening.

Keep us informed, please, this sounds crazy.... they clearly sound like they are clutching at straws and are scrambling around looking for a way out....


Has your mate got a good gambling record with them?? As it sounds like they don't want his business.... could this be their polite way of telling him to p--- off.

Howjoe1

too crazy to be true. must be a wind up

crackit

In case anyone cares or was waiting to hear. Eventually settled as a voided bet with the stake refunded. My mate wanted the win he was due but it was turning into too much hassle to pursue it.

Football Gambler

crackit wrote: »

In case anyone cares or was waiting to hear. Eventually settled as a voided bet with the stake refunded. My mate wanted the win he was due but it was turning into too much hassle to pursue it.

Did they give a reason for voiding the bet?

Football Gambler

This thread has got me wondering, has anyone ever taken a dispute like this to an adjudication service?

Not sure if the bookmaker in question in this thread are a member of one?

But for example, Bet365 say on their website that they are affiliated to (IBAS) Independent Betting Adjudication Service, and that they will abide by any ruling made by them.

I've never had any experience dealing with any of these services, and wonder what they are like?