Prospective PhD student

marshal777

Hello,

I'm in fourth year now, studying Med Chem and I'm seriously considering a PhD.
I am just wondering is it possible to fund yourself to do a PhD and if I say it to my lectures would they laugh at me

The only reason I say "to fund myself" is because knowing my luck I 'm not gonna get a scholarship
and if I can do a 4yr PhD and pay 80K I think it's an investment I could make.

p.s I was a 1.1 grade average student from 1st-3rd yr, I don't know if I can do it again this year but I will not be getting anything less than 2.1..hopefully

Thank you

avalon68

marshal777 wrote: »

Hello,

I'm in fourth year now, studying Med Chem and I'm seriously considering a PhD.
I am just wondering is it possible to fund yourself to do a PhD and if I say it to my lectures would they laugh at me

The only reason I say "to fund myself" is because knowing my luck I 'm not gonna get a scholarship
and if I can do a 4yr PhD and pay 80K I think it's an investment I could make.

p.s I was a 1.1 grade average student from 1st-3rd yr, I don't know if I can do it again this year but I will not be getting anything less than 2.1..hopefully

Thank you

Not possible - it would cost a lot more than 80k to fund you and your research. Research reagents are expensive. Ive never met someone in the biological sciences that was self funding. Talk to prospective supervisors - they may have funding, or may help you apply for funding. Seriously, its a long haul - and many people take a lot longer than 4 years to get finished - do your best to get funding.

marshal777

avalon68 wrote: »

Not possible - it would cost a lot more than 80k to fund you and your research. Research reagents are expensive. Ive never met someone in the biological sciences that was self funding. Talk to prospective supervisors - they may have funding, or may help you apply for funding. Seriously, its a long haul - and many people take a lot longer than 4 years to get finished - do your best to get funding.

Yeah you see I have talked to one of my lectures already about it and she is willing to apply for an IRCSET with me.
The problem is that it depends on my first semester results and if I don't get a first in the first semester there really is no point in applying for an IRCSET you know, so then I ask myself well what other options do I have...and I'm not really sure. I saw that UCD has PhD positions and they said that if you can't find funding then you have to fund yourself i.e. pay your own tuition fees..but surely if it was so outrageously expensive they wouldn't say that..

Tree

there's a number of scholarship schemes in various sciences where you can apply for funding as a phd student, that's generally what's implied when they say self funding.

A biotech PhD will cost at least 10k per year on reagents, then you need to pay yourself (15k pa), then tuition fees/conference fees/accomodation/travel etc.

Talk to the supervisor you want to work with, see what other funding options she can suggest. Then talk to other PIs in the area you want to work, you may find a supervisor with sufficient funding to take on a student and pay for it themself.

marshal777

Tree wrote: »

there's a number of scholarship schemes in various sciences where you can apply for funding as a phd student, that's generally what's implied when they say self funding.

A biotech PhD will cost at least 10k per year on reagents, then you need to pay yourself (15k pa), then tuition fees/conference fees/accomodation/travel etc.

Talk to the supervisor you want to work with, see what other funding options she can suggest. Then talk to other PIs in the area you want to work, you may find a supervisor with sufficient funding to take on a student and pay for it themself.

Alright, see I wasn't aware of that.. I applied for two PhD positions one in NUIG and another here in Dublin. That was like two weeks ago, still no reply. Hopefully someone will get in touch with me. Believe it or not when I asked weather I should apply for masters as well in case I don't get accepted to do a PhD anywhere, I was told that I shouldn't as the lecture was confident that I will get a good PhD offer...based on what,..if I can't get funding..it's pointless.. to be honest, any PhD topic related to organic or med chem I would gladly accept. I've put in a lot of work in the last three years hopefully I can finish it as well as I started to get he best possible chance of perusing my dream.

avalon68

Two weeks is a very short time - I wouldnt worry about it. Most likely you wont hear back until the new year. Get everything organised to apply o IRCSET - dont leave it until the week before. As already mentioned, there are multiple sources to apply for funding, which any prospective supervisors should be able to guide you through. Depending on the types of experiments you would be doing, 10k per year on reagents could be at the low end of the scale.....things go a lot smoother if you dont have to worry about money during your PhD. Also, a lot of PhD positions are not advertised - contact any potential supervisors you would like to work with and see if they will have any positions available next year. Just send a short email and attach a CONCISE cv outlining your previous lab experience, college courses etc., why you would like to do a phd in their lab - ie show that you know the type of work they actually do, why you want to work in the area. Remember, they get plagued with generic Dear Sir/Madam letters every day so make it personal and show you have done some research into what they actually work on.

woodchuck

Some very good advice here, not much more I can add. I just want to reiterate that 'self funding' for a PhD isn't a realistic option. Where were you planning to get the money from? You'd need one hell of a loan! You're looking at MINIMUM 8k per year on reagents (absolutely lowest end of the scale that I was on myself :rolleyes:) and 5-6K fees per year. And what about getting money for yourself to live on too? Stipends are on average 16K a year and many people struggle on that. A PhD takes a minimum of 3 years, but 4 years is very common and it's not unusual for it go into it's 5th year either.

It's great that you're thinking about all this so early on. I'd go ahead and apply to IRCSET and look into anything else that is worth applying for too. Advertised positions that come with funding are common too, so just keep an eye out for those (as someone said the positions you already applied for you probably won't hear back about until the new year). Getting a prospective supervisor on board can be invaluable too. Who are you applying to IRCSET with? If you don't that they might have other ideas up their sleeve, so make sure to continue on that line of things as well. You've a good 6 months or more to sort something out, so just keep at it

djpbarry

marshal777 wrote: »

...any PhD topic related to organic or med chem I would gladly accept.

Really? Any at all? Organic chemistry alone is an extremely broad area.

Sean O Hara

djpbarry wrote: »

Really? Any at all? Organic chemistry alone is an extremely broad area.

Why would that be surprising, the OP is coming out of undergrad. They are at their most flexible now and should be keeping their options open.

OP, keep an eye out on not only departmental websites but also research institutes that may be affiliated or co-located with universities. Also, remember to consider options in Northern Ireland etc. Some universities like the University of Ulster have vice chancellor awards that will give you a stipend and fees (much of the UK based funding has residency requirements). However, these awards close early and you should be getting this sorted over Christmas with a view to meeting potential supervisors first thing after Christmas (when the lecturers go back to work in early January, not the start of term).
Also, remember that IRCSET is very competitive and that a 1:1 although helpful far from guarantees you a place. A winning application will take you weeks to do properly and should be done in conjunction with your potential supervisor. Thus, you should be starting the process asap.

Rgds,
Sean

djpbarry

Sean O Hara wrote: »

Why would that be surprising, the OP is coming out of undergrad. They are at their most flexible now and should be keeping their options open.

I’m not saying it’s surprising, I’m saying it might be slightly misguided. Doing a PhD is a massive commitment and if a particular project is not something that really interests the student from the outset, it doesn’t bode well.

To be honest, if I were taking on a student and they told me they’d be happy to take on absolutely any project in <insert broad discipline here>, I would be very wary of taking them on. I agree that it’s a good idea for a prospective PhD student to keep their options open, but a certain amount of focus is necessary.

marshal777

Firstly thank you all very much for the advice, I really appreciate it!!!

The lecturer which has agreed to apply for an IRCSET with me said we will start on it after the semester exams, which is some time after mid January. She says that we have plenty of time to do that and that I have to put all my focus on maximizing my grade. To be honest, I am hoping that my academic achievements (3 college awards) will help me get it as well as my 6 month Erasmus project abroad, but yeah I am very aware that the most important thing is my grade this year :S and again overall I think I can get a 1.1 at the end of the year but in the first semester I am not as confident..and that's the one that really matters.. though I am working day and night so we'll just have to see..

and to answer djpbarry's question I really enjoy organic chemistry especially medicinal applications, drug synthesis etc.. so I have my preferences definitely but if I had no choice and was offered an organic type project I would take it, unless of course it was something that was ridiculous... I did say 'organic chemistry-medicinal chemistry-applications' I didn't say "chemistry" or "science"...

If I don't do as well this year as previous years and get a 2.1 does that mean I am at a huge disadvantage at getting PhD funding from somewhere other than IRCSET because there is no way I can get an IRCSET with a 2.1 and does academic achievement in previous years hold any water when a potential supervisor reads it in a CV..

At the end of the day.. I'll try every option and if I don't get it, my next plan is to do a research masters, and see if I can advance from their..but either way, I am not gonna stop trying until the system completely shuts me off so to speak

djpbarry

marshal777 wrote: »

...if I had no choice and was offered an organic type project I would take it...

Let me ask you this: why do you want to do a PhD?

marshal777 wrote: »

...I did say 'organic chemistry-medicinal chemistry-applications' I didn't say "chemistry" or "science"...

Yes you did. But organic chemistry and/or medicinal chemistry are still extremely broad areas.

Look, the reason I'm asking you this is because you don't want to set off on a project that you're not going to enjoy. I've seen numerous students before you decide to launch into a PhD because they like a particular area of science and, 12 months into the project, they're utterly miserable.

Are you really going to just agree to do whatever your prospective supervisor proposes (within reason) as long as it is in some way related to organic/medicinal chemistry? I mean, if I stick "organic chemistry" into jobs.ac.uk and restrict the results to PhD positions, I get a list of 20 studentships:

http://www.jobs.ac.uk/cgi-bin/search.cgi?keywords=organic+chemistry&salary_from=&salary_to=&jobtype=02&show=25&x=0&y=0

Are all of those of interest to you?

Or, to put it another way, is there any current research projects out there that interest you? You mentioned above that you've already applied for advertised positions? What attracted you to those projects? Are there other positions out there that you're interested in?

Furthermore, bearing in mind that the IRCSET application process is extremely competitive, why do you want to work with the particular lecturer you've mentioned above? Do you think you could work with them for four years (or more)? Do you think that this person is going to do the application justice? Does the person in question have experience/success in applying for funding? Also worth bearing in mind that drafting a funding proposal can be very time-consuming.

I don't expect you to answer all of that, they're just questions to ask yourself and things to consider. And I'm not trying to put you off the idea of working in research either. If you really want to do it, then great - go for it. Just make sure you're going into it with your eyes wide open.

marshal777

I really appreciate your feedback on the matter I really do but the thing is the lecturer I am applying with has been my lecturer for the last 3 and a half years, she knows me well and I really like her, I think she is a great person and very intelligent and when applying for the IRCSET we are going to discuss the topic but I know her interests and I share her interests, so I already have a very strong hint as to what kind of research she would like to do with me, and I am excited about it very much so.

Both of the positions I applied to are related strongly to med chem i.e. cancer research and drug admin. Which are precisely my the areas of interest. As for the application for IRCSET look I don't know weather I have a good chance at getting it with this lecturer or if I have any chance for that matter, this is just one option I will pursue of many, because I will continue keeping an eye out for PhD positions that interest me and will continue sending in my applications. I know what interests me and I think I can recognize it.

For me a PhD is only a stepping stone because I can't do a postdoc without a PhD. I want to be an academic, I want to write a book and contribute to science, to leave my mark after I'm gone. I want to travel and meet intelligent people with great ideas, I want to come up with a cure for cancer, I want to open a research center in Ireland, I want to collaborate with researchers in other countries. I know this all might sound very stupid to someone reading it, but I want to achieve, to be an expert. For this reason I need this PhD., and weather I get it next year or the year after next or the year after that, I will get it. This is my first shot at it, I want to as prepared as possible, that's why I'm here talking to you.

Tree

Also, where you get teh chance, talk to the postgrads in the lab you want to join, they can offer better insight into a supervisor than you'll pick up over four years receiving lecturers from them.

(And dont ask the postgrads in front of the supervisor, you won't get a genuine answer, if the super is terrible they'll lie and if the super is great, they'll tone it down to be realistic)

avalon68

Tree wrote: »

Also, where you get teh chance, talk to the postgrads in the lab you want to join, they can offer better insight into a supervisor than you'll pick up over four years receiving lecturers from them.

(And dont ask the postgrads in front of the supervisor, you won't get a genuine answer, if the super is terrible they'll lie and if the super is great, they'll tone it down to be realistic)

+1 million on this - go and ask people in the lab what it is like to work in there. Ask how often they meet, what kind of feedback they get, corrections on work, opportunities to network with other groups, conferences etc.