Legitmate grounds for a postdoc to be fired

robp

I have a question on what kind of circumstances would permit a postdoc to fired?

The case in question is about a postdoc on a stipend outside of Ireland so I don't believe there is much legal protection. Anyway, the postdoc was threatened to be fired for submitting an abstract to a conference on a paper where all all group members are involved and were publishing a paper. The PI after reading the abstract asked for the postdoc not to submit the abstract but instead he just took the PI off as a co-author and submitted it anyway. I was absolutely shocked when I heard about it, as firing seemed so draconian. He wasn't stealing data or anything as all the results would have been published prior to the conference anyway. Is that considered extreme? I'd appreciate any feedback.

avalon68

robp wrote: »

I have a question on what kind of circumstances would permit a postdoc to fired?

The case in question is about a postdoc on a stipend outside of Ireland so I don't believe there is much legal protection. Anyway, the postdoc was threatened to be fired for submitting an abstract to a conference on a paper where all all group members are involved and were publishing a paper. The PI after reading the abstract asked for the postdoc not to submit the abstract but instead he just took the PI off as a co-author and submitted it anyway. I was absolutely shocked when I heard about it, as firing seemed so draconian. He wasn't stealing data or anything as all the results would have been published prior to the conference anyway. Is that considered extreme? I'd appreciate any feedback.

He should check with the hr people. But in all honesty, even if he keeps his job - the damage is done. His good reference from this position is likely gone. If your PI tells you not to submit the abstract, then you dont submit it. Taking his name off it and submitting it that way is a pretty bad move. He might have had a good reason - such as not putting it in an abstract book until it was published in case they got scooped by another group. Maybe he wanted to use some of the data in a grant application or a patent application? Once its in the public domain, a patent is out the window. Its hard to know without knowing the field he works in, but removing your PI from an abstract is really silly. If I was the PI, Id be pretty annoyed too - and my first reaction would probably be that I didnt want to work with this person anymore.

robp

avalon68 wrote: »

He should check with the hr people. But in all honesty, even if he keeps his job - the damage is done. His good reference from this position is likely gone. If your PI tells you not to submit the abstract, then you dont submit it. Taking his name off it and submitting it that way is a pretty bad move. He might have had a good reason - such as not putting it in an abstract book until it was published in case they got scooped by another group. Maybe he wanted to use some of the data in a grant application or a patent application? Once its in the public domain, a patent is out the window. Its hard to know without knowing the field he works in, but removing your PI from an abstract is really silly. If I was the PI, Id be pretty annoyed too - and my first reaction would probably be that I didnt want to work with this person anymore.

Thanks for the feedback. Its in a field without any commercial aspect. The PI has very limited contribution to the research apart from providing the money, while the postdoc is the lead author of the journal article planned. Its not even 'big' research, its only a review. Apparently both of them admitted in a meeting together that its not really about the conference. The postdoc sees himself as independent while the PI feels her authority is questioned. I'm a student in the group so I'm just scratching my head and trying to avoid getting sucked into this!

avalon68

robp wrote: »

The PI has very limited contribution to the research apart from providing the money, while the postdoc is the lead author of the journal article planned. Its not even 'big' research, its only a review.

Getting the money is a HUGE part of the equation, and the post doc is totally in the wrong leaving the PI off the abstract. The fact that the PI wrote the grant probably means he played quite a large role in shaping the research that would be done. Remember its your PI that holds the keys to your graduation, not the postdoc. However independent he/she feels - he is still in the wrong in this case. Stay out of it and let them work it out themselves.

woodchuck

Very bad move by the postdoc. For whatever reason the PI didn't want that abstract submitted. For the postdoc to go ahead and submit it anyway AND remove the PIs name from it is just not on! In terms of whether it's a fire-able offense... well that's one for HR I'm afraid. There could be other circumstances that you don't know about too... other things that have happened in the past maybe and this was the last straw. Also postdocs have a probationary period like most other jobs, so if it happened during this time the PI may not need much cause to justify his reasons.

I think just do your best to keep out of it... and make sure to always do what your PI says!!

robp

Thanks for the posts. I was originally on the abstract too, but I removed my name in response to the PI's feelings. I am very glad I did.