Frankie Sheahan - good or bad analyst?

ButtersSuki

I think this has been discussed before but seriously, is Frankie Sheahan the most biased and ridiculous "analyst" of Irish rugby? It's gotten to the stage now where I just switch the station when he's on radio and channel when he's on tv.

Part of the problem is it's almost impossible to be an agent of players and objective, but his constant upping of Munster players over players from any other province is laughable at the best of times in the face of current form/evidence but verging on ridiculous more often than not and it's rarely if ever, challenged.

He still advocates the old-Munster style now for all provinces and the national team even though the game has moved on immeasurably over the last few years and throws out more cliches and soundbytes than Hook & Popey combined - yet never seems to be off the airwaves.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Scioch

Frankie Sheehan, Tony Ward, Donal Lenihan, George Hook, Brent Pope. None of them worth listening to imo.

CatFromHue

I have to say I think Donal Lenihan is an excellent analyst/pundit. He may be Munster biased but he knows an awful lot about what's going on down there and it drives me nuts when he's interrupted mid sentence. I remember, at the end of last season I think, he was talking about how Munster had been in talks with Ma'a Nonu but he was too pricey and then Daire O'Brein stopped him short and that was the end of that!

I like Ward and Pope too. They may not be the most controversial and are old school but I like that all the same.

Robert McGrath

Scioch wrote: »

Frankie Sheehan, Tony Ward, Donal Lenihan, George Hook, Brent Pope. None of them worth listening to imo.

Whatever about the rugby, I found Popey interesting when talking about his personal life on the chat show circuit recently. Seems like a decent guy.

lologram

When you mention Frankie Sheahan's commentary my mind always jumps to a Munster HEC game where he awarded MOTM to David Wallace (who I believe was a client). The look of disbelief on Wally's face said it all. It was a run of the mill performance and not worthy of the award. He looked like laughing.

Frankie - bad pundit/commentator if for nothing else than partiality.

wicklowwonder

Sheahan must be very cheap he is on all channels. He should be made declare who he represents when analysing. Irish rugby journalism at the moment is a joke. Best pieces can be found online by the likes of Mole and Whiff of Cordite. If Sheanan expressed some of his opinions on boards he would be warned for trolling!

wicklowwonder

lologram wrote: »

When you mention Frankie Sheahan's commentary my mind always jumps to a Munster HEC game where he awarded MOTM to David Wallace (who I believe was a client). The look of disbelief on Wally's face said it all. It was a run of the mill performance and not worthy of the award. He looked like laughing.

Frankie - bad pundit/commentator if for nothing else than partiality.

There was a game in the Rabo I think where Wally was I think just back from international duty went off after 60 mins looking wrecked and played ok but not his usual levels. Frankie still gave him MotM

rockbeast

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I think this has been discussed before but seriously, is Frankie Sheahan the most biased and ridiculous "analyst" of Irish rugby? It's gotten to the stage now where I just switch the station when he's on radio and channel when he's on tv.

Part of the problem is it's almost impossible to be an agent of players and objective, but his constant upping of Munster players over players from any other province is laughable at the best of times in the face of current form/evidence but verging on ridiculous more often than not and it's rarely if ever, challenged.

He still advocates the old-Munster style now for all provinces and the national team even though the game has moved on immeasurably over the last few years and throws out more cliches and soundbytes than Hook & Popey combined - yet never seems to be off the airwaves.

Anyone agree/disagree?

I shouldn't rise to this but I will! No offence intended to you personally ButtersSuki...

Frankie Sheehan is a disgrace of a commentator/analyst. RTE shoud be condemned for giving him a platform to promote his own business. I am of the opinion that FS was an average player at best, who is now manipulating, by force of a certain "type" of personality, an agenda that seeks to feather his own nest.

No Pro that I know would respect his opinion on any rugby matter. He is, by all accounts, good company and a sound chap. If he makes a few quid via his clients, that's fair enough but it vexes me that RTE facilitate him to do so. I would think that there is a broadcasting rule/law that is being broken but if not, fair play to FS for gaining the promotion for his clients.

But no, I don't think he is a good good analyst. A great PR man though.

RB

jacothelad

I've discovered why he appears so unkempt when on T.V. Apparently all his ties are too tight........:D:D

CIARAN_BOYLE

I've found him decent as a pundit when its involving a non Irish team in the HEC

Otherwise no way

tolosenc

If he was restricted to doing reports on the Premiership or the Top 14, he'd be pretty good. The extent to which he talked up TOL lost him all of his credibility.

JessePinkman

rockbeast wrote: »

I shouldn't rise to this but I will! No offence intended to you personally ButtersSuki...

Frankie Sheehan is a disgrace of a commentator/analyst. RTE shoud be condemned for giving him a platform to promote his own business. I am of the opinion that FS was an average player at best, who is now manipulating, by force of a certain "type" of personality, an agenda that seeks to feather his own nest.

No Pro that I know would respect his opinion on any rugby matter. He is, by all accounts, good company and a sound chap. If he makes a few quid via his clients, that's fair enough but it vexes me that RTE facilitate him to do so. I would think that there is a broadcasting rule/law that is being broken but if not, fair play to FS for gaining the promotion for his clients.

But no, I don't think he is a good good analyst. A great PR man though.

RB

Way too harsh and bang outta order...
Id say you would be pals with alot of them..

Quint2010

I don't find him that biased anymore. He's toned it down alot.

[Jackass]

Sheehan and Flannery are both laughably bad, but neither compare to Quinlan for one eyed nobness!!

So far in both Heineken Cup Leinster games he's been a co-commentator in, he shouted excitedly "Leinster are out!!!" when Exeter were awarded a last minute penalty and against Scarlets Sexton kicked a 22 drop out straight out at a crucial time of the game and he said something along the lines of "Good stuff" when the scrum was awarded back.

What a twat.

rockbeast

JessePinkman wrote: »

Way too harsh and bang outta order...
Id say you would be pals with alot of them..

out of order? Why do you think this? back it up or I else you are an FS shill...

I am pals with about 6 of them...

JessePinkman

rockbeast wrote: »

out of order? Why do you think this? back it up or I else you are an FS shill...

I am pals with about 6 of them...

Ah yeah i'm pals with loads of them too :rolleyes:

wicklowwonder

JessePinkman wrote: »

Way too harsh and bang outta order...
Id say you would be pals with alot of them..

In fairness the points where backed up by the poster. You don't back up your opinions if Frankie.

Do you agree with him the Archer is good enough to play 3 for Ireland?

Do you agree Peter O'Mahony was in the running for Ireland captain in Autumn tests?

Two ridiculious opinions Sheanan spouted recently.

He could easily get a bonus if both happens so its in his interest to spout this crap at every opportunity.

danthefan

As has been pointed out him trumpeting player he represents without declaring so is a disgrace and I can't believe the TV stations etc. allow it.

When he's commentating on a game for which he's neutral he isn't actually the worst pundit around.

ButtersSuki

Frankie is the guy who immediately after the 2011 Magners League Final said Marcus Horan and John Hayes should start for Ireland again over Healy and Ross as Munster had beaten Leinster that day.

One game. A week after the Heineken Cip Final where most of the Lenister team looked shattered.

He didn't even say they played better, his logic was "Munster won, therefore they are better".

Dietsquirt

Scioch wrote: »

Frankie Sheehan, Tony Ward, Donal Lenihan, George Hook, Brent Pope. None of them worth listening to imo.

I like the combination of Hook and Popey and as already mentioned in the thread, i think Lenihan is a great analyst.

Sheehan however... clueless

Scioch

Dietsquirt wrote: »

I like the combination of Hook and Popey and as already mentioned in the thread, i think Lenihan is a great analyst.

Sheehan however... clueless

I dont think Hook or Pope actually know enough about the game to be called analysts. Pope's one redeeming factor is that he's not as clueless as Hook and doesnt let himself get carried away with nonsense. But with those two its glorified pub chat is all it is. All well and good but I dont want to listen to two old men bickering over stuff semi related to what I'm watching. I want details.

Lenihan knows a bit about the game and he's just way too in love with Munster to be taken seriously, he comes out with some stupid stuff too at time which has me doubting if he actually knows as much as he should on it.

I want details on this stuff like "The reason this happened is because the line was broken here, this way by this guy doing this. That led to that guy there doing this which resulted in this that and the other" Not "This guy is tremenjuous, he's got pace to burn, he's done it all year, he'll do it again, he had no right to do it".

And when questions about selection come up I want "I think he went with this guy for these reasons, because with those other players, this type of game could be played, they could try this and that and use that guys skills to implement it" and not "Look it, he's a bright young lad, he deserves a chance, he should do well, he played there fifteen years ago and he's still alive".

These people get paid to analyse these things, yet we get a few old guys who used to be involved in some capacity telling us vague nonsense that anyone of us could come out with.

For the same reason I like reading stuff by McQuilken as he talks about what actually happened or is likely to happen in terms of how the game is played. While most others blather about non specific stuff and vague predictions based on who did what 10 years ago to fill an article.

Swiwi

Robert McGrath wrote: »

Whatever about the rugby, I found Popey interesting when talking about his personal life on the chat show circuit recently. Seems like a decent guy.

Anyone know what keeps Popey in Ireland, his job aside?

An Irish missus?

I would have thought he'd head back to NZ at some stage.

Swiwi

Scioch wrote: »

I dont think Hook or Pope actually know enough about the game to be called analysts. Pope's one redeeming factor is that he's not as clueless as Hook and doesnt let himself get carried away with nonsense. But with those two its glorified pub chat is all it is. All well and good but I dont want to listen to two old men bickering over stuff semi related to what I'm watching. I want details.

Lenihan knows a bit about the game and he's just way too in love with Munster to be taken seriously, he comes out with some stupid stuff too at time which has me doubting if he actually knows as much as he should on it.

I want details on this stuff like "The reason this happened is because the line was broken here, this way by this guy doing this. That led to that guy there doing this which resulted in this that and the other" Not "This guy is tremenjuous, he's got pace to burn, he's done it all year, he'll do it again, he had no right to do it".

And when questions about selection come up I want "I think he went with this guy for these reasons, because with those other players, this type of game could be played, they could try this and that and use that guys skills to implement it" and not "Look it, he's a bright young lad, he deserves a chance, he should do well, he played there fifteen years ago and he's still alive".

These people get paid to analyse these things, yet we get a few old guys who used to be involved in some capacity telling us vague nonsense that anyone of us could come out with.

For the same reason I like reading stuff by McQuilken as he talks about what actually happened or is likely to happen in terms of how the game is played. While most others blather about non specific stuff and vague predictions based on who did what 10 years ago to fill an article.

I think Pope played 1st class rugby, and trialled for the ABs.

Your credentials please Scioch?

Scioch

Swiwi wrote: »

I think Pope played 1st class rugby, and trialled for the ABs.

Your credentials please Scioch?

Frankie Sheehan is a former professional rugby player and capped international. There's your argument shot to shít.

And I'm not paid to analyse games, so I dont need anything in the way of credentials. I am however an RTE viewer and licence holder so there's my credentials to analyse what do be on the telly !

Swiwi

Scioch wrote: »

Frankie Sheehan is a former professional rugby player and capped international. There's your argument shot to shít.

And I'm not paid to analyse games, so I dont need anything in the way of credentials. I am however an RTE viewer and licence holder so there's my credentials to analyse what do be on the telly !

Frankie's from Munster, so given the way Ireland works, it's logical he's biased. Would probably lose the keys to Munster if he wasn't.

Did you play rugby Scioch? At what level? What position?

Easy to give out from the anonymity of boards.ie, but it's actually quite difficult to be a pundit in the confines of soundbite television.

WinnyThePoo

Scioch wrote: »

Frankie Sheehan is a former professional rugby player and capped international. There's your argument shot to shít.

And I'm not paid to analyse games, so I dont need anything in the way of credentials. I am however an RTE viewer and licence holder so there's my credentials to analyse what do be on the telly !

Source Wiki

"Brent Pope played for various provincial and New Zealand underage teams before representing Canterbury and Otago at senior first division level, helping Otago to its first ever first division title in 1991. Pope played nearly 100 first class games for Otago in a career that spanned nearly 10 years with the Dunedin based side, during that time he formed loose forward trios with All Blacks Paul Henderson, Mike Brewer, Taine Randall, Josh Kronfield, Arane Pene and Jamie Joseph. Pope was selected in the original 1987 New Zealand Rugby World Cup training squad, but had to withdraw a week before the tournament began due to a serious arm injury in the final All Black trials, he was replaced by young and relatively unknown Auckland No 8 Zinzan Brooke. Pope came back after injury to be named Otago player of the year in 1987/8 and was again shortlisted for the All Blacks tour to Japan only to miss out again when the tour party was trimmed to 24 players. Pope played in a number of final All Black trials, represented the South Island, New Zealand Schools, Universities, Leinster, Barbarians, New Zealand XV and was a former Captain of the Penquins and played county provincial rugby in England and United States. He came to Ireland in 1991 where he played for both St Marys and Clontarf RFC."

lologram

Swiwi wrote: »

Frankie's from Munster, so given the way Ireland works, it's logical he's biased. Would probably lose the keys to Munster if he wasn't.

Did you play rugby Scioch? At what level? What position?

Easy to give out from the anonymity of boards.ie, but it's actually quite difficult to be a pundit in the confines of soundbite television.

I understand what you are trying to say but personally challenging Scioch to explain his credentials is pointless. He's free to form an opinion of Sheahan's commentary and share it. He doesn't have to be a former player to be allowed to speak, none of us do. Nor would he have to be a film director to compare the qualities, or otherwise, of movies.

Swiwi

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Source Wiki

"Brent Pope played for various provincial and New Zealand underage teams before representing Canterbury and Otago at senior first division level, helping Otago to its first ever first division title in 1991. Pope played nearly 100 first class games for Otago in a career that spanned nearly 10 years with the Dunedin based side, during that time he formed loose forward trios with All Blacks Paul Henderson, Mike Brewer, Taine Randall, Josh Kronfield, Arane Pene and Jamie Joseph. Pope was selected in the original 1987 New Zealand Rugby World Cup training squad, but had to withdraw a week before the tournament began due to a serious arm injury in the final All Black trials, he was replaced by young and relatively unknown Auckland No 8 Zinzan Brooke. Pope came back after injury to be named Otago player of the year in 1987/8 and was again shortlisted for the All Blacks tour to Japan only to miss out again when the tour party was trimmed to 24 players. Pope played in a number of final All Black trials, represented the South Island, New Zealand Schools, Universities, Leinster, Barbarians, New Zealand XV and was a former Captain of the Penquins and played county provincial rugby in England and United States. He came to Ireland in 1991 where he played for both St Marys and Clontarf RFC."

Clearly doesn't know enough about the game :rolleyes:

Scioch

Swiwi wrote: »

Frankie's from Munster, so given the way Ireland works, it's logical he's biased. Would probably lose the keys to Munster if he wasn't.

Did you play rugby Scioch? At what level? What position?

Easy to give out from the anonymity of boards.ie, but it's actually quite difficult to be a pundit in the confines of soundbite television.

Its difficult to be a pundit is it ? Whats your history as a pundit ? What TV channel did you work for ? What big games did analyse on tv ?

Doesnt seem so difficult for the likes of O'Shea, Shaggy, Quinlan or Jackman to make pertinent points, they are also former provincial players but are not clearly biased when working as analysts. If Pope knows his stuff then he clearly cant articulate it, in which case he's not suited to punditry. Just because you play or have played rugby doesnt mean you are qualified to be a TV analyst, not is it guaranteed you know more than someone who hasnt.

Swiwi

lologram wrote: »

I understand what you are trying to say but personally challenging Scioch to explain his credentials is pointless. He's free to form an opinion of Sheahan's commentary and share it. He doesn't have to be a former player to be allowed to speak, none of us do. Nor would he have to be a film director to compare the qualities, or otherwise, of movies.

Free to glibly criticise all & sundry, without same having a chance to defend themselves.

Look, Scioch might have been an Ireland legend for all I know, but whatever you say about Brent Pope & Frankie Sheehan, from a playing perspective they are more than qualified.

Anyway, will stop there, as this will go nowhere useful.

lologram

Swiwi wrote: »

Free to glibly criticise all & sundry, without same having a chance to defend themselves.

Look, Scioch might have been an Ireland legend for all I know, but whatever you say about Brent Pope & Frankie Sheehan, from a playing perspective they are more than qualified.

Anyway, will stop there, as this will go nowhere useful.

I agree that it is unlikely to reach some sort of proper conclusion. It will have to be left at 'to each his own opinion' I guess. I am not being glib here in turn but the pundits criticise the players and the people criticise the pundits. Sure a lot of it may be hot air but if tv/radio pundits can exercise their right to free speech and to criticise then we can too.

Scioch

Swiwi wrote: »

Free to glibly criticise all & sundry, without same having a chance to defend themselves.

Look, Scioch might have been an Ireland legend for all I know, but whatever you say about Brent Pope & Frankie Sheehan, from a playing perspective they are more than qualified.

Anyway, will stop there, as this will go nowhere useful.

You seem to be confusing playing rugby with talking about rugby. A Deaf mute can play rugby but wouldnt make a good TV pundit. Likewise Brent Pope can play and coach and still sit beside George Hook for years offering little worth listening to.

Its not my fault he's rubbish at his job and I'm perfectly entitled to criticise him for it. I'd reckon too the only reason you give a crap is because Pope is a Kiwi, didnt see you rushing to defend Frankie. So perhaps your own bias is clouding your ability to rationally discuss this just as Frankie 's bias renders him a useless pundit despite his past achievements in rugby.

dastardly00

Connor O'Shea ftw!

penzo

Scioch wrote: »

Frankie Sheehan, Tony Ward, Donal Lenihan, George Hook, Brent Pope. None of them worth listening to imo.[/QUOTE

I've always loved doanal, especially as a commentator he just really seems to get into the rugby and be completely unbiased, like in this clip of heaslip knocking o gara

Podge_irl

Scioch wrote: »

I dont think Hook or Pope actually know enough about the game to be called analysts.

Pope knows plenty - he just allows himself to be caught up in the Hook & Pope show.