Gay for a Year!

L.Jenkins

http://fox4kc.com/2012/12/03/christian-man-pretends-to-be-gay-for-year-writes-book-causes-outrage/

Just swiped that from my girlfriends FB page. Essentially, Timothy Kurek decided to come out as gay for a year, lived the life and even had a pretend boyfriend. His motivation was to conduct an experiment after his friend, a lesbian confided in him. Before this all kicked off, he was an Evangelical Christian, and disgusted with his friend.

Since then, he has wrote a book and completely changed his view/perspective on the LGBT community, but doesn't change the fact that he lived a lie and betrayed the trust of nearly everyone around him.

stephen_n

But there would be no other way for a straight person to genuinely experience the process of coming out.

L.Jenkins

Understandly so, but he lied to a lot of people and pretended he was gay. I think that was the main point of the article. To detract from the main point though, he gained valuable insight into what it's really like to be a member of the LGBT Community and is/has released a book on his experience.

Back to the point, he can't come back from what he said. His family will assume there is a possiblity that he is gay even though he has retracted it. Many other people believed his ruse and formed a bond/trust with him only to have it broken.

stephen_n

Yeah it's a bit hard on his family as for the relationships he formed, if the sole basis was his presumed sexuality, then that's fairly shallow. Yes he deliberately deceived them but not really with malicious intent. The perspective achieved is unique if somewhat unethical.

Peregrinus

Well, lots of gay people present themselves as straight - for different reasons, obviously, but the deception is basically the same. And this bloke apparently made a point of not deceiving anybody into sexual intimacy with him.

Still, I'm queasy.

Annasopra

I think this was a good thing. He recognised problems in his own views and decided he would challenge them.

Peregrinus

I see that, but he challenged them by deceiving other people. Other people, in short, bore some of the cost of him sorting himself out, and they didn't do so willingly or knowingly and, for the most part, they weren't other people on whose emotional support he had a moral claim.

Basically, deception = not good. I'd cut a good deal of slack for a gay person practicising deception to remain closeted; there's an element of self-defence there from other people's oppressive attitudes. But this guy's repressive attitudes were his own. He can possibly blame others for them - his family, the community in which he was raised - but the people he deceived were an entirely different bunch of people.

I would be interested to hear the perspectives of some of the people who accepted at face value his self-identification as a gay man, and how they felt and what they thought when it turned out to be false.

L.Jenkins

mango salsa wrote: »

I think this was a good thing. He recognised problems in his own views and decided he would challenge them.

On one hand yes, he did recognise his own views as causing him digust. I applaude him for recognising that and wanting to do something about it. Is there not a better way for people to gain a true sense of our experience without deception? Or is full immersion into the LGBT community, the only way to go?

Peregrinus

I think it's part of the human condition that some experiences are unattainable. I'll never know what it's like to be female, for example. Hypothetically, if I were a master of disguise (and everyone around me had extremely poor sight and hearing and was insensitive to common social cues) I could find out what it's like to be treated as female, but that's not the same thing. And even to the extent that an experience is hypothetically attainable, it doesn't follow that I'm entitled to practice gross deceptions on other people in order to attain it.

I think this guy can get some understanding of what it's like to come out as a gay man by talking to gay men who have come out. More than that is possible, but not necessarily ethical.

MrTsSnickers

Full immersion isn't the only way, but this guy found that method useful. The guy recognised the disgust he felt (if you're interested in the use of language re disgust Martha Nussbaum talks about the language of disgust and how language is used as a tool to put down minority groups, it's very interesting). He reconciled the lies he told with the good he could do for himself and his community.

Also, as he's still Christian, he is bringing the humanity of the LGBT community to a group of people that have actively dehumanised the community, so that's also good. Especially in conservative evangelical America, where anyone outside what they deem socially appropriate is cast out and disparaged. Like the guy said "I had been taught to be wary of gays, [...] they were all HIV positive, perverts and liberal pedophiles” he learned that a) this is not true and b) just like him, people that are LGBT are just trying to live, like everyone else.

While there are other ways to become tolerant and less bigoted, this is interesting that he totally immersed and could easily have fallen victim to the wrath of his own community, he still chose to proceed. Anytime that tolerance is increased is good in my view.

Annasopra

I actually didn't read the link in the OP cause I had heard about this before and fox news as a source doesn't entice me to read something

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/13/bible-belt-conservative-year-gay

I get the fact that he deceived people and it was unethical but really I think that some of you guys are being far too harshly judgemental

floggg

Has anybody he "deceived" actually came out and criticised him?

It's one thing if he mislead people who seriously opened up to him in a way that betrayed their confidence and they felt hurt.

But if they aren't all that bothered nobody else should be. It would be akin to criticising the secret millionaire crowd on tv for deceiving people even though they then write them a back cheque to help them out.

Shakti

Tourist? anyway I think it's a bit pointless giving him grief for coming out as straight, reminds me of J.H. Griffin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Howard_Griffin

Ambersky

When I was a child I was told a story of the King of Denmark riding through the streets on his horse during Nazi occupation wearing the Star Of David on his arm. He did this I heard in response to the law that all Jews be marked out by forcing them to wear that symbol on their clothing at all times. I was told the Danish people were so moved by their King that many of them too wore the Star regardless of their religion. In a way in this story the Danish people lied and took on a false identity so that the Nazi's could not differentiate between Jews and Non Jews.
Today researching this I found out that story is not true or at least it is only partly true. The Danish King did not wear the Star but thousands of Jews were rescued by the resistance of ordinary people. Anway what matters to me now is the effect the story has already had on me creating a lasting and formative impression of the ways people can behave when oppressed.
http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/denmark.asp
I like stories where individuals are surprised by the support given to them by others refusing to stand away and show up their difference. I like stories of moral courage
When someone is marked out as different and therefore due some kind of punishment, social exclusion, name calling or bullying, the reaction of others is usually to move away in case they are in for the same treatment by association.
Even when being somewhat verbally supportive some people are very careful to let others know that they don’t want to be mistaken for being “different” themselves.

There are other stories besides the Danish one of heroism and moral courage where individuals and groups refuse to separate themselves from the one accused or oppressed in some way.
You see it in films where there is a line up of soldiers and the Capturing Official asks “which one of you is ( name)” and one by one each soldier stands forward and says “I am”. They all therefore also tell a lie and attempt to deceive the Army Official.

The book mentioned in the link given by the OP is called “The cross in the closet” and I guess you could argue that the guy was just following the example of Jesus.
Jesus in the bible story hangs around with people who are considered undesirable company for any clean living man.

While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
~ Mark 2:15-17

Im not saying LGBT people are sinners and Im not focusing on the whole sinner thing for now because the person I want to look at here is Jesus who was confronted with the idea that he was tainted by the company he kept and was asked what he was doing hanging around with people like that.
Instead of getting all defensive and distancing himself from his friends, in the story Jesus basically says back off they are with me.
Peter the disciple knew what it was like to be accused of “being one of them” and he also knew what it was like to take fright in such a situation and deny any knowledge or association with a friend in trouble.

Ok the guy in question in the OP went a bit further than hanging around with undesirable gay people and said he himself was gay.
He didn’t have to go through the inner struggle that it can be for some people to come out, which after all is usually the most difficult part, but he certainly got to experience homophobia first hand. He says this experience was transformative for him.
It was an education for his friends and family too by the sounds of it and to my mind, difficult and all as it was for them, all he really did was hold a mirror up to their own homophobia, intolerance, bigotry and hatred.
Most of them claimed to be Evangelical Christians and I think the guy has a good argument in saying he was simply following the example of Jesus.
The experience may even make his friends and relatives better Christians.

Oracle

Some of the comments are hilarious ...

10 bucks says he actually properly comes out of the closet in years to come.

He's can't be gay, as he obviously doesn't work out - like the two guys either side of him!

.... So any publishers out there want to give me an advance for my idea to gain ten stone, get a pudding bowl hairdo and spend a year living as Ann Widdecombe?

Dark Artist

I don't know why anyone hasn't commented one what an unbelievable mentaller this guy must be for doing something like that.

stephen_n

Dark Artist wrote: »

I don't know why anyone hasn't commented one what an unbelievable mentaller this guy must be for doing something like that.

Why? The opportunity to experience something genuinely different is rare, it's about as close as anyone can come to seeing the world through someone else's eyes! Clearly it had its limitations on that front but still was very different and I'm sure he will benefit from the experience.

Dark Artist

Because he obviously just did this for the attention. If he was open enough to change his views that he would actually pretend to be gay for a year, then he'd be sensible enough to realise that to do that was completely unnecessary. All he needed have done was make the effort to talk to some gay people, make some gay friends and hear them out. What he ended up doing was completely over the top in my opinion and it hurt the people around him too.

stephen_n

Dark Artist wrote: »

Because he obviously just did this for the attention. If he was open enough to change his views that he would actually pretend to be gay for a year, then he'd be sensible enough to realise that to do that was completely unnecessary. All he needed have done was make the effort to talk to some gay people, make some gay friends and hear them out. What he ended up doing was completely over the top in my opinion and it hurt the people around him too.

That's like saying reading a book on climbing Mount Everest is the same as climbing it yourself!

Dark Artist

stephen_n wrote: »

That's like saying reading a book on climbing Mount Everest is the same as climbing it yourself!

No it isn't, that's not a fair analogy at all. We're talking about basic tolerance of other people here. It's like a white racist saying to themselves, 'You know what, in order to accept black people for who they are, I need to actually experience being black just to make sure they're real people with real feelings."

Then they paint themselves black for a year, do things that they consider stereotypically black, and then write a book about it afterwards. They do this rather than just taking it upon themselves to be tolerant and accept black people for who they are in the first place. It's completely absurd.

periodictable

mango salsa wrote: »

I get the fact that he deceived people and it was unethical but really I think that some of you guys are being far too harshly judgemental

What's that saying about breaking eggs to make an omelette?

Annasopra

periodictable wrote: »

What's that saying about breaking eggs to make an omelette?

No idea what point you are trying to make?

stephen_n

mango salsa wrote: »

No idea what point you are trying to make?

I think he is agreeing with you, saying you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

periodictable

stephen_n wrote: »

I think he is agreeing with you, saying you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

Exactly............brave experiment by the guy who did it, at least he had the imagination to think outside the box, and apparently for the better.
Anyone who feels betrayed should look at the positive outcome of his actions. Save your anger for those who want you firmly back in the closet with a big bolt on the door.