Maternity leave entitlement

Zizigirl

I knew it was on the table but absolutely devastated to see 30 days in lieu of holidays is to cease for teachers and sna's on 1st May 2013. It might not impact many teachers too much but unfair that he's not allowing any annual leave to accrue, not even statutory.

I think for anybody already pregnant it is grossly unfair as they haven't been left with much choice. I'm due to start maternity in May and with no way financially of being able to take unpaid leave I will be back in the classroom with a baby just over five months old! In shock...

sitstill

Will this affect teachers already out on leave? Im replacing a teacher who was not meant to be back till September - is there a chance she will have to come back early now?

Zizigirl

sitstill wrote: »

Will this affect teachers already out on leave? Im replacing a teacher who was not meant to be back till September - is there a chance she will have to come back early now?

No clear indication of who it will affect yet. If its a blanket start on May 1st it will have to affect them. He may say anybody out on leave by 1st May is getting the 30 days in lieu but I have a feeling the 1st of may is very significant, only time will tell.

implausible

He's got rid of the 30 days in lieu, but does this mean that pregnant teachers won't get any of our holidays in lieu?

I heard something about bringing us in line with other public servants, so I'm guessing that we will still get some of our holidays back, just not as many as 30 days.

Zizigirl

I thought we would accrue some annual leave too. Ruari says 'maternity leave in lieu to be revised, with teachers annual leave entitlements covered by school closures' and later says 'the arrangement, which is not available to other public sector workers or private sector workers is to be ended' 'the new measure will be introduced on May 1st 2013' - devastation of the finest form...

doc_17

I'm not sure I understand the change. Has the time you are allowed to take off been reduced by 30 days? Or is it that if you were on maternity leave and during summer you were allowed to take another 30 days as your maternity happened during summer?

littledubs

basically you get your 26 wks mat leave and then 30 days in lieu of any hols that fell during that particular 26 wk period you are off.
my mat leave ends in June when exams have started. With the added on 30 days it meant I wasnt back til sept 7th I think it was ... now if this comes in for existing applicants, im back in Aug like everyone else.

Does anyone know if it def includes everyone currently or just about to go on mat leave?

Zizigirl

Nobody knows yet! Hope unions fight for accrual of annual leave the same as all workers have!

implausible

If this is true and I have another, my next baba will be timed down to the second - the beginning of December I reckon! No teacher will plan having a baby between Christmas and the summer.

daheff

littledubs wrote: »

basically you get your 26 wks mat leave and then 30 days in lieu of any hols that fell during that particular 26 wk period you are off.

seriously??? 26wks + 30 days holidays (for half a year)

While i think people should get longer for maternity leave (like 1 year & another unpaid year), I think that this particular 'benefit' is another perk of the civil service and either civil service gets back in line with the rest of the workforce or the rest of the workforce get this benefit (not in this climate).

While I feel sorry for you that you now need to go back earlier than intended, its just one of those things that private sector people just dont have.

Also taxing maternity benefit is absolutely scandalous. the minister should be resigning over that.

implausible

daheff wrote: »

seriously??? 26wks + 30 days holidays (for half a year)

While i think people should get longer for maternity leave (like 1 year & another unpaid year), I think that this particular 'benefit' is another perk of the civil service and either civil service gets back in line with the rest of the workforce or the rest of the workforce get this benefit (not in this climate).

While I feel sorry for you that you now need to go back earlier than intended, its just one of those things that private sector people just dont have.

Also taxing maternity benefit is absolutely scandalous. the minister should be resigning over that.

Inform yourself before you give out -
1. You don't automatically get 30 days. If your maternity leave goes over the school holidays, you get your holidays back up to a maximum of 30 days.

2. Statutory maternity leave is 26 weeks - public or private sector. In most places, you can accrue annual leave and take it after your maternity leave. Teachers have no control over their holidays, so the 30 day thing was introduced to compensate for this.

3. The taxation of maternity benefit is probably not going to affect people who are solely reliant on it. Anyone whose employer "tops up" their maternity leave will be affected. To be honest, I'm surprised they haven't thought of it before.

TheDriver

People don't realise that teachers don't get 30 days whenever they want so if mat falls on that 30 days, you should get some back.
Whats terrible is that teachers get good few weeks more than SNAs so you could have a teacher and SNA and one is out a lot longer than other

daheff

implausible wrote: »

Inform yourself before you give out -
1. You don't automatically get 30 days. If your maternity leave goes over the school holidays, you get your holidays back up to a maximum of 30 days.

2. Statutory maternity leave is 26 weeks - public or private sector. In most places, you can accrue annual leave and take it after your maternity leave. Teachers have no control over their holidays, so the 30 day thing was introduced to compensate for this.

I think you are misreading my post. The point I made was in respect to the quote by littledubs. My point still stands that teachers can do a lot better timewise than the private sector and should be brought in line with this.

1- I took what a previous poster had quoted -apologies if this is incorrect (but I dont think it is as you agree this in point 2). Additionally 30 days holidays is way in excess of most private sectors (Stat min is 20 days...some lucky people can 'earn' 5 more with service). 30 extra days because your maternity time is during the school holidays...its a bit OTT. Teachers would not be in work anyways for most of this period (while i accept that there is some degree of preparation /and some (not all teachers) have school work to correct there is no way that a teacher would work for the whole of the summer holidays)

2- statutory maternity leave is indeed 26 weeks & you are counted as being employed during this time so accrue holidays....but the max you can accrue is 10 days of holidays (plus any bank holidays during this time) -not 30

Zizigirl

If I am completely honest, regardless of public opinion, I would like the thirty days in lieu that I believed I had when I chose to get pregnant. It was never hidden that this was what was contractually agreed in education for teachers and Sna's whose maternity leave fell over their holidays. When I chose to have a baby I chose not to wait until what others call the 'best time for a teacher to get pregnant', I chose to just get pregnant but as I said the decision was made based on the fact that I was entitled to this time in lieu. I think the decision to cut this for anybody already pregnant is unfair.

What I'm willing to put up with is a different story, I feel teachers should be allowed to accrue holidays while on maternity and if that is statutory, 10 days and public holidays, then I will take that and not feel I'm being discriminated against.

TheDriver

i would be half way in that opinion, 30 days is enough to be carrying forward but they should not be imposing this until 10 months from now.

Zizigirl

I emailed my local TD for clarification on this today and he is contacting the minister's office re the exact details. I'm hoping for clarification sooner rather than later!

Boober Fraggle

The Asti site has details of it as things stand. I'm hoping they will fight it though.

cb7

Think it will affect people who go on maternity leave after the 1st of May 2013 not people who are currently on maternity leave. Based on info On the TUI website. Very un fair.

dory

TheDriver wrote: »

Whats terrible is that teachers get good few weeks more than SNAs so you could have a teacher and SNA and one is out a lot longer than other

What's also terrible is the amount of teachers who get NO maternity leave pay as they're subs. Two in my school, who've been in the school years, are only taking 1 - 2 months off as they can't afford any more unpaid leave. And one had always been on a contract until this year so had no reason when she fell pregnant to believe it would be unpaid leave.

rainbowtrout

dory wrote: »

What's also terrible is the amount of teachers who get NO maternity leave pay as they're subs. Two in my school, who've been in the school years, are only taking 1 - 2 months off as they can't afford any more unpaid leave. And one had always been on a contract until this year so had no reason when she fell pregnant to believe it would be unpaid leave.

Hold on. That's a completely different scenario. As subs they are covering someone else who is out sick/maternity etc. So two people are being paid for the one job, as teachers get paid while on sick/maternity leave. If the sub leaves to have a baby and the person they were covering is still out sick, are you suggesting three people now get paid for the one position???

Also for the second teacher, she was on contract and is no longer on contract, same as a private sector worker losing their job while pregnant (assuming it's not related to the pregnancy). It is crap for her that she will have no money coming in, but if people are having babies they have to consider the financial scenarios which may arise during and after that pregnancy. She had no reason to believe it would be unpaid leave but if the school had to make cutbacks they have no obligation to give her special treatment and provide her with a contract just because she is pregnant either.

This kind of thing is normal for private sector workers.

I'm amazed at the general attitude pervading this thread. I'm not suggesting the 30 days in lieu should have been taken off teachers, we do have a right to holidays and ours can't be taken whenever we want like most other employees in other jobs, but the OP is going on about being back in the classroom with a five month old. Again a normal scenario for most people.

Teachers get full pay (with maternity benefit included) for the entire 26 week duration. Until this year would have had full pay for the 30 days in lieu. The vast majority of teachers I have encountered aim to have babies in the October-January window so their maternity leave + 30 days stretches over the school year and runs into the summer holidays, giving them a 44 week stretch fully paid to be at home with the baby.

When I do encounter a teacher who has a March/April/May baby, one thing I've heard again and again is 'made a mess of my maternity leave, won't make that mistake again' or a similar sentiment.

While I believe the holidays are a statutory entitlement, I'm beginning to see the PS entitlement vibe in this thread and it's unreal.


If you told someone on the street that if you planned your dates right that you could have 10.5 months off on full pay while having a baby and now you're complaining that its been reduced to 9 they'd laugh in your face.


Actually we were discussing this only last week in my staff room after the budget and a teacher asked me 'rainbowtrout, you're good with numbers, what's the best time now to go on maternity leave?' i.e. how do you maximize the time spent off work during the school year without having maternity leave running into the summer holidays. Anyone who thinks this is only one teacher looking at it this way is deluded.

implausible

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm amazed at the general attitude pervading this thread. I'm not suggesting the 30 days in lieu should have been taken off teachers, we do have a right to holidays and ours can't be taken whenever we want like most other employees in other jobs, but the OP is going on about being back in the classroom with a five month old. Again a normal scenario for most people.

It's not really a normal scenario Rainbow. The vast vast majority of pregnant women will try to accrue annual leave to add on to their 26 weeks maternity leave, so they will be off for longer than 26 weeks. This new change means that teachers who cannot afford to take unpaid leave could be back in the classroom, leaving a 24 week old baby at home. Teachers are genuinely being discriminated against here.

bobby14

I have been working out a few things in regard to this and have emailed the following to the dept. I'd be grateful if anybody out there would check out if I am right because If so the dept would have to do something about it,....

Hi there,
In response to the information posted on the website last week regarding maternity leave in lieu I would just like to point out that in the school year September to August a teacher who would go on maternity leave just before Easter 2014 would in fact not get the statutory 20 days annual leave. In fact it would actually work out as 4 days in October, 6 in December, 2 in January, 2 in February. This equates to 14 days annual leave in the year as I have not included the public holidays which for all workers are in addition to annual leave. The teacher would essentially get no easter or summer holdays. I also have not included own school vacation days as teachers in the past did not get time in lieu for those days. In fact even if I had included osv days it still wouldn't bring the teacher to 20 days annual leave as maternity leave is not annual leave. I feel this is very important and would easily be overlooked. Could you please ensure that the dept and your solicitors are aware of this and let me know how the annual leave year is calculated. It cannot run over a 2 year period surely and it must be from a certain point in the year for all teachers. It seems to me that the dept are changing what constitutes a working year to suit themselves. Is it calculated from September to August, January to December, April to March??
It is very important that this is clarified.
Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you

Zizigirl

New Circular 0009/2013
http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Circulars-and-Forms/.

Not sure where it leaves those of us who have already applied for maternity leave and been given dates? It doesn't state any dates apart from issue date (5th Feb). Sure that would mean they would have to take back time in lieu from teachers already out on maternity?

Boober Fraggle

I've just read the circular... From my reading of point 8 they are not going to allow leave in lieu for bank holidays either. These will be absorbed by our other holidays. Is that right?

rainbowtrout

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

I've just read the circular... From my reading of point 8 they are not going to allow leave in lieu for bank holidays either. These will be absorbed by our other holidays. Is that right?

That wasn't what I read. Bank holidays are an entitlement for all workers. You are still entitled to these and will get the days in lieu.

Zizigirl

I read it as any public holidays days in lieu will be absorbed by other school closures if not taken before maternity leave.

However, there really isn't much hope of a circular making sense given that the staff in Dept don't even know what's in the circular. I phoned yesterday to get some clarification and was told the circular clearly stated that no time in lieu could be accrued after 1st May. Hello? Where? All I see is the words 'procedures are to be implemented by each employer with immediate effect' and 'This circular supersedes all previous circulars, memoranda, rules and regulations in relation to Maternity Protection Entitlements.'

lennyloulou

am very confused. as a 30plus girl who has moved to a new county,dont know many, no family support to help with the odd child minding/advice of my Mam/no sisters and a large mortgage, therfore 100% dependent on creche costs- i intend to plan plan plan plan my 1st child. Yes I say this without ANY reservations!
Can I please ask when would be the ideal time of the year to be going out on maetrnity leave please, based on the new changes?

Boober Fraggle

lennyloulou wrote: »

am very confused. as a 30plus girl who has moved to a new county,dont know many, no family support to help with the odd child minding/advice of my Mam/no sisters and a large mortgage, therfore 100% dependent on creche costs- i intend to plan plan plan plan my 1st child. Yes I say this without ANY reservations!
Can I please ask when would be the ideal time of the year to be going out on maetrnity leave please, based on the new changes?

Are you primary or secondary? Would you be taking any unpaid leave?

No unpaid leave and in secondary, best time to have a baby would be December. Then you'd be due back in September. I would be aiming for September or so, and hope to get lucky in the first four months trying, while saving for unpaid just in case you get lucky sooner!

cb7

I went on maternity leave on the 10th of Nov. Adding 26weeks onto it, this brings it up to the 10th of May. Taking 2 weeks unpaid brings you up to end of May, then return just before Summer hols. November best time I think.

Boober Fraggle

cb7 wrote: »

I went on maternity leave on the 10th of Nov. Adding 26weeks onto it, this brings it up to the 10th of May. Taking 2 weeks unpaid brings you up to end of May, then return just before Summer hols. November best time I think.

That's under the old system of getting 30 days in lieu.

cb7

From 10th of November till 10th of May is 26 weeks exactly. Not including any 30 days in lieu.

Boober Fraggle

cb7 wrote: »

From 10th of November till 10th of May is 26 weeks exactly. Not including any 30 days in lieu.

Sorry, I was thinking of primary!

guinness1

Hi Just wondering if there has been any update on this. My wife is due to commence maternity around mid July. Any indication as to whether usual bank holidays will accrue whilst on leave?
On a related issue is anyone aware whether someone on a pro-rata contract this year is entitled to return on the same number of hours assuming the course runs again next year.

solerina

I heard that its unlikely that there will be any change in the current rules (no 30 days) until at least this time next year...apparently the unions have to take a case on behalf of someone who has lost out so obviously this means someone whose maternity leave is over....
On the other point, I doubt it but I dont know

annamarie2013

What about the people who are already out??

solerina

annamarie2013 wrote: »

What about the people who are already out??

old rules apply, this only starts for people who go on mat leave from may 1st.

MollFlanders

I think what the directive states is that days in lieu cannot be claimed after May 1st. If you went on maternity leave on April 29th for example you still cannot claim the days in lieu, I am open to correction on this though?
It is unfair on people who were already pregnant when they announced this, it should have been postponed for a year to give people time to plan.

TheDriver

true but it was announced a long time back as a possibility and also the counter argument is that they didn't wait when they announced increases over the years. I have found older staff saying that 26 weeks + holidays on full pay was one of the those things that was overly generous and only a matter of time until it was gone, i never realised that it is only a short number of years when it was a lot less.....