Pyrite - Property Tax

jelly4

Does anyone know if houses with pyrite / suspected pyrite are exempt from the property tax? How do you do a self assessment as to what the property is worth as, effectively, they are worth nothing?

hmmm

Are there similar houses on the property price register?

jelly4

Yes, there are 2 houses that sold this year (estate has 600 houses). One house was sold before we heard about the pyrite fiasco and the other one after. Theres not much difference in the prices but I can't tell from the register if they are 3/4/5 beds etc.

ninty9er

If someone managed to sell one, clearly it's not worthless.

jelly4

ninty9er wrote: »

If someone managed to sell one, clearly it's not worthless.

yes, but perhaps they didn't disclose they had possible pyrite!!

Godge

If a house in the estate has been sold recently there is not really much chance of arguing that the value is significantly different.

frankosw

Is it common knowledge that there was pyrite in the foundations? has it been fixed and were the properties properly surveyed?

bbam

Isn't there a compensation/repair process in the pipeline to deal with this issue... Why would you also get an exemption from the property tax??

Have you ceased using all local public services since the pyrite has been discovered?? Does it prevent your sewrege working?? Have the street lights been switched off and the library closed?? the fire service disbanded??

Really, why does this defect in your house exempt you from the social burdon of paying your taxes?

Carawaystick

bbam wrote: »

Isn't there a compensation/repair process in the pipeline to deal with this issue... Why would you also get an exemption from the property tax??

Have you ceased using all local public services since the pyrite has been discovered?? Does it prevent your sewrege working?? Have the street lights been switched off and the library closed?? the fire service disbanded??

Really, why does this defect in your house exempt you from the social burdon of paying your taxes?

Well property taxes are based on the value of your house. Who would buy a house with the threat of serious structural issues, when there's a million* houses without such a threat about the place.


* may be an exaggeration

bbam

Carawaystick wrote: »

Well property taxes are based on the value of your house. Who would buy a house with the threat of serious structural issues, when there's a million* houses without such a threat about the place.


* may be an exaggeration

I agree, I wouldn't touch a house with pyrite issues..
Thats different to them being exempted from the property tax..

Its a house, being lived in, utilising public services, property tax should apply!

murphaph

bbam wrote: »

Isn't there a compensation/repair process in the pipeline to deal with this issue... Why would you also get an exemption from the property tax??

Have you ceased using all local public services since the pyrite has been discovered?? Does it prevent your sewrege working?? Have the street lights been switched off and the library closed?? the fire service disbanded??

Really, why does this defect in your house exempt you from the social burdon of paying your taxes?

What you're saying of course makes sense.....BUT this government has implemented a half arsed property tax based on the self assessed value of the property on a given day.

They have not implemented a land value tax nor a "local public services tax". They have implemented a cheapo tax, rather than doing things properly.

A house with serious pyrite issues will have a very low value, possibly nil or negative as the land itself is being occupied by a worthless structure and it costs money to clear sites.

The government should have implemented a land value tax, which they decide, not some self assessed Mickey Mouse set up like we are getting.

bbam

murphaph wrote: »

What you're saying of course makes sense.....BUT this government has implemented a half arsed property tax based on the self assessed value of the property on a given day.

They have not implemented a land value tax nor a "local public services tax". They have implemented a cheapo tax, rather than doing things properly.

A house with serious pyrite issues will have a very low value, possibly nil or negative as the land itself is being occupied by a worthless structure and it costs money to clear sites.

The government should have implemented a land value tax, which they decide, not some self assessed Mickey Mouse set up like we are getting.

Well the fact that the issue is being dealt with already means its a non issue in relation to the tax...

There is no good reason why any house should be exempted from the property tax. This really should be all or none, not having particular groups lobying to dodge their duty.

seamus

Even if your property has no value, you still fall into the €0 - €100k band, meaning that you are liable for €90 property tax.

murphaph

seamus wrote: »

Even if your property has no value, you still fall into the €0 - €100k band, meaning that you are liable for €90 property tax.

Good point there, house will be valued at 50k even if it is un-sell-able.

murphaph

bbam wrote: »

Well the fact that the issue is being dealt with already means its a non issue in relation to the tax...

There is no good reason why any house should be exempted from the property tax. This really should be all or none, not having particular groups lobying to dodge their duty.

I agree that it should be all or none, but the government has chosen a silly way to levy this tax (basing it on market value, self assessed on a given day in 2013). Even in non-pyrite affected houses, I have serious concerns about the level of honesty we'll see (insofar as you can honestly appraise the value of your property in a stagnant market!!). I am sure many neighbours owing identical houses will be paying all sorts of different amounts, which is patently ridiculous.

WillieFlynn

Even if the house was so bad that it was falling down and had zero value. The land it is sitting on would have some value.

So depending on where you are, a house which is un-inhabitable may not be in the lowest property tax bracket.

bbam

WillieFlynn wrote: »

Even if the house was so bad that it was falling down and had zero value. The land it is sitting on would have some value.

So depending on where you are, a house which is un-inhabitable may not be in the lowest property tax bracket.

There may be the same criteria as with the NPPR:
No ESB, no bathrooms would deem the house non applicable for the tax.

seamus

bbam wrote: »

There may be the same criteria as with the NPPR:
No ESB, no bathrooms would deem the house non applicable for the tax.

Indeed, from the billl:

“residential property” means any building or structure which is in use as, or is suitable for use as, a dwelling and includes any shed, outhouse, garage or other building or structure and any yard, garden or other land, appurtenant to or usually enjoyed with that building, save that so much of any such yard, garden or other land that exceeds one acre shall not be taken into account for the purposes of this definition;

So a property with no ESB and no bathrooms would probably not be considered suitable for use as a dwelling.

Interesting to note that if your property is purely residential and sitting on five acres, you only have to take into account one of those acres for valuation purposes.

Seems a bit unnecessary to include that. I wonder how many politicians have homes on multiple acres...?

Carawaystick

Exemption granted
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1214/breaking43.html

Xcellor

90 euro will go a long way in repairing a home with pyrite damage...

Scortho

seamus wrote: »

Indeed, from the billl:
So a property with no ESB and no bathrooms would probably not be considered suitable for use as a dwelling.

Interesting to note that if your property is purely residential and sitting on five acres, you only have to take into account one of those acres for valuation purposes.

Seems a bit unnecessary to include that. I wonder how many politicians have homes on multiple acres...?

Farmers?

seamus

Scortho wrote: »

Farmers?

Wouldn't they class the majority of their land as farmland though, maximise whatever grants they get?

WillieFlynn

seamus wrote: »

Interesting to note that if your property is purely residential and sitting on five acres, you only have to take into account one of those acres for valuation purposes.

Seems a bit unnecessary to include that. I wonder how many politicians have homes on multiple acres...?

I would guess that the limit of one acre is to protect farmers, as it may be difficult to say where the line between the residential and farmland is.

Scortho

seamus wrote: »

Wouldn't they class the majority of their land as farmland though, maximise whatever grants they get?

They would most likely! But is their anything in the bill that says farmland is exempt?

If there is well then the exemption for land over 1 acre doesn't make sense!

WillieFlynn

The irish times article says that
"Minister for Finance Michael Noonan today announced that households with homes suffering from pyrite heave will receive a waiver from the new charge."

For full details looks at:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1214/breaking43.html

frankosw

WillieFlynn wrote: »

The irish times article says that
"Minister for Finance Michael Noonan today announced that households with homes suffering from pyrite heave will receive a waiver from the new charge."

For full details looks at:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1214/breaking43.html

Wonder does the waiver also apply to the non fire-compliant deathtraps like priory hall?

sean200

i want a waiver now
y house was flooded last year and now i cant get house insurance

Good loser

frankosw wrote: »

Wonder does the waiver also apply to the non fire-compliant deathtraps like priory hall?

Good question. Has Noonan started a slippery slope? Stupid move. Pyrite reduces the value but doesn't remove it. Plus degrees of severity. Pyrite houses are lived in and give utility - while Priory Hall is empty.

Icepick

WillieFlynn wrote: »

The irish times article says that
"Minister for Finance Michael Noonan today announced that households with homes suffering from pyrite heave will receive a waiver from the new charge."

For full details looks at:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1214/breaking43.html

silly decision
If people live in those houses, they should pay.

WillieFlynn

Icepick wrote: »

silly decision
If people live in those houses, they should pay.

While these problems don't affect me, thankfully.

There are arguments in the case of pyrite, building which breach fire regs and possibly flooding not having to pay property tax.

1. The value is very low or possibly zero, as they may be unsellable.
2. The Irish state is partily if not largely to blame, because of little or no enforcement of building regulations.

Gumbo

WillieFlynn wrote: »

1. The value is very low or possibly zero, as they may be unsellable.
2. The Irish state is partily if not largely to blame, because of little or no enforcement of building regulations.

I thought the Private sector Architect/Engineered employed by the builder/home owner certifies that the build adheres to all planning and building regulations?