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Rawer sounding cymbals

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  • 05-12-2012 2:05pm
    #1
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭


    I use some very high quality handmade crash cymbals in the main

    but im finding they sound a little too scooped - lots of smooth high end , very polished sounding off the rail

    id like something a little rawer and midrange sounding

    now i know alot of this comes from the room mics with compression , but i think the sources could be rawer

    anyone have some makes / models / types that come to mind off the bat ?

    thinking sabian HH , or Zildjian Avedis ( but these are a bit gongy )

    paiste also a bit to produced sounding in the main .

    ride and hats are ok, its the crashes that are too 'nice' at the moment


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    #2
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,027 ✭✭✭fitz


    The Sabian HHX O-zone stuff will get you trashier, if that's what you're after.
    Quite a specific sound though...

    http://www.sabian.com/en/cymbal/11800xeb-18-inch-hhx-evolution-o-zone-crash


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    #3
    ZV Yoda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭ZV Yoda


    Have you tried Zildjian K series?... the 1990's variety if possible. The K dark crashes have a sound all of their own. I used to have a couple of them with Zildjian A (mediums) in my old set up.

    I'd say the As (Avedis) are closer to what you already have (soft & mellow). The Ks are/were much darker. I loved them. Even the 16" Ks punch above their weight in terms of cutting through the mellower cymbals. For me, As and Ks are chalk and cheese. If I ever go back to an acoustic kit, I'll have A hats/crashes mixed with a K ride/crashes.

    Then again, it's horses for courses with drum & cymbals, so one man's poison is another man's cure.

    Just saw Fitz's post re Ozones... 100% agree... definately trashy, but maybe better suited as an effects cymbals than a main crash. Metal drummers use them a lot because they're harsh fast crashes.


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    #4
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    ah i already have an ozone and its great , but its pretty much the sound of a china smoothed out a bit - this one i have im using and keeping already

    its the actual sweet crashes i want to roughen up a bit - maybe eq could do it .

    i have a 1984 EAK 18 inch crash ride i use as a ride and its great - wish i had some of the crashes


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    #5
    GTE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭GTE


    On the Paiste side the RUDE Thin Crashes are pretty raw but being unlathed they could be the extreme of raw that you want to be in the middle of compared to your current sound. They are heavy by normal cymbals weights though. A RUDE Thin is a 2oo2 Heavy roughly speaking. They sound a like a very raw 2oo2 Medium.

    You could also look at the 2oo2 Wild and Power models. Heading towards the Signature and Traditional series you are getting into fantastic territory.


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    #6
    flyswatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭flyswatter


    I have Sabian AAX Stages. 3 piece set. Could be what you are looking for as they have quite a raw rock sound. The crash cymbal is my favourite part of the set. Check out the whole AAX range. You can listen to sound clips on the sabian website and the zildjian one too I believe. You'll see a lot of rock and metal drummers using these. Someone mentioned the Zildjian A's, they really breathe with life but I agree probably are too mellow. Also investigate Meinl. They've really upped their game and definitely have a few dark, heavy cymbals in their range.


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    #7
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    hmm looks like sabian might be the way to go - i will have a look and listen .


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    #8
    PaulBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    Compress the bejasus out of them ...


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    #9
    SeanHurley
    Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭SeanHurley


    What Paul said. Parrallel compression with the Abbey Road TG 12413 does it for me.


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    #10
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    yeah i am doing that - i might add more

    i have the whole drum group compressed with ' the glue' and about 20% parallel added ( its a feature in the glue )
    i also send the drum mix bar the kick to a master reverb group and eq/ compress that to behave as room mics

    but i would like a bit of source bite as well


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    #11
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    ah screw it im just gonna compress em more

    well you live an learn.


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    #12
    krd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    DaDumTish wrote: »
    ah screw it im just gonna compress em more

    well you live an learn.

    There is another effect - though I don't how this would work with live cymbals - it's something that can be done on Ableton's impulse drum machine - you can randomise the filtering on drum hits (that is set a filter, and then set a radomise percentage, so it's not getting to same filtering each time). I've only discovered how to use it recently. You can use it heavily or lightly, and it gives an interesting characteristic - as you may imagine, if you can imagine.

    Using compression on drums, with something like Impulse, is a really bad idea. On impulse you can tweak the decay on the hits. And though it took me a very long time to learn how to do it, it gives you huge control over the shape of your drum sound. But the second you slap on a compressor, you piss away all that tweaking.


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