Why are Irish retailers so poor at online selling?

seamus

As the title says.

Irish retailers seem to have been very slow to establish a fully online presence - many will have a limited catalogue of their stuff online which is rarely updated and usually ask you to ring or call in to see the full range.

Irish companies who actually do sell online often manage to have a really haphazard process which often leaves little confidence in whether your order has been placed and the follow-up process is likewise hit-and-miss.

Two recent examples:
- I ordered a book from liberties press. Easy ordering process, I got a confirmation email, great. Two days later the book arived, great. Two days after that I get an email notifying me that the book has been dispatched. Uh, wut?

- I ordered a Xmas present from McGuirk's golf yesterday. Nice, straightforward ordering process, instant confirmation mail - "You will be notified when your item has been shipped". Good. A McGuirks carrier bag arrives today, item in it and a till receipt. It actually looks like the order was rung in on the shop floor, then someone sent out to deliver it. No notification email.

In neither case am I complaining about the delivery time, but it exposes that there's either no proper process in place, or that the process isn't really followed, and the web shopfront is just that - it fires off an email somewhere that then gets printed out and acted upon, rather than having someone properly managing online orders.
So despite the great delivery times, in both cases I'm left feeling less than confident about ordering there again.

It's been pretty much a similar experience ordering from most Irish retailers, with the notable exceptions of online grocery shopping. Order placed, then no communication until it arrives at the door and limited or no ability to check on your order online - stuff that you take from granted when buying from an overseas site.

Is this because Irish shops (and indeed Irish shoppers) are so generally unaccustomed to distance selling that they don't fully immerse themselves in it?

recipio

Very good point.
the most common problems I find are a total lack of professionalism - delays in getting back, poor checkout facilities, and low stock. Too many companies want to stock the budget end of the market but charge premium prices. I've dealt with retailers that can't give a straight answer to anything and have no concept of basic courtesy or communication.
Lastly the Government charge 23% vat and wonder why the consumer market is poor ! duh... I find ( sadly ) that a few UK companies serve my needs and I stick with them.

sandin

The market simply isn't big enough.

Cost of creating, updating and maintenance of a websore and having pick / pack staff and customer service staff is not that different to those of a real store, yet it can take 3 years+ to see a return.

Then customers want specials, free shipping etc and so your margin is eroded.

Shipping outside Ireland is a no because of costs.

One of my businesses is an online business and finally this year we will make a profit - year 4 and will do about 700k turnover. And its an area where online is ideal.


So whilst in theory it wuld be great that everyone could go online, in practice, yiu need to concentrat 100% on your online operation to ensure it works and many retailers just can't do that - both here and elsewhere.

Cabaal

Have to agree, most but thankfully not all Irish company's just simply suck at selling online.

Notable exception in my book is www.shaving.ie, interacts with customers in a very big way online here on boards, excellent customer service and from my own experience quick delivery's. Also ships worldwide and has become a very popular website since it was first started back in 2008/2008.

imho, if the work is put in a Irish company online can work

rubadub

I figure many would not bother as they think they cannot compete with other online shops -and that people going online would know how to shop around.

I have bought from shaving.ie to get quick delivery for a christmas present, and they were as cheap as anywhere else, or cheaper. Very fast delivery. They are a little different as they are solely an online shop AFAIK, while the OP seemed to be talking about established bricks & mortar places going online.

I remember ordering some takeaway online here and got no return email, or text to the number I gave, so I ended up ringing them 15mins later to make sure it registered -defeating the purpose.

the groutch

i had a similar experience with Holland & Barrett, the items were put through the till in a random store and bunged into an envelope.

recipio

Just musing but I think the 'High Street ' is dying.About 1:7 of all purchases are online now so Irish retailers should wake up to that.
The key to success is to keep costs low and stocks high. If I were retailing I'd also try and tackle the postal costs overseas. I ordered a spray gun off #bay from Poland and it was sent for about 5 euro !
The world is becoming a global village folks.

recipio

sandin wrote: »

The market simply isn't big enough.

Cost of creating, updating and maintenance of a websore and having pick / pack staff and customer service staff is not that different to those of a real store, yet it can take 3 years+ to see a return.

Then customers want specials, free shipping etc and so your margin is eroded.

Shipping outside Ireland is a no because of costs.

One of my businesses is an online business and finally this year we will make a profit - year 4 and will do about 700k turnover. And its an area where online is ideal.


So whilst in theory it wuld be great that everyone could go online, in practice, yiu need to concentrat 100% on your online operation to ensure it works and many retailers just can't do that - both here and elsewhere.

A good insight into retailing.
I'm guessing a lot of goods are imported from the UK anyway so its a bit pointless trying to target a UK market with the same goods.
There must be niche markets (like handmade chocolates ? ) that could however be promoted. ?
On thing I can't understand is how retailers set up a website and then seem to abandon it. Surely it does not cost much for somebody to sit down once a day and actually answer emails ?

sandin

recipio wrote: »

Just musing but I think the 'High Street ' is dying.About 1:7 of all purchases are online now so Irish retailers should wake up to that.
The key to success is to keep costs low and stocks high. If I were retailing I'd also try and tackle the postal costs overseas. I ordered a spray gun off #bay from Poland and it was sent for about 5 euro !
The world is becoming a global village folks.

1:7? No, way off the mark. It will be about 7-8%, higher in some areas like books & music but lower in clothing and furniture.
At the end of the day, its the modern form of catalog shopping that was all the craze in the eighties.

recipio wrote: »

A good insight into retailing.
I'm guessing a lot of goods are imported from the UK anyway so its a bit pointless trying to target a UK market with the same goods.
There must be niche markets (like handmade chocolates ? ) that could however be promoted. ?
On thing I can't understand is how retailers set up a website and then seem to abandon it. Surely it does not cost much for somebody to sit down once a day and actually answer emails ?

Handmade chocs soud great for online, but they are fragile, so unless they are well boxed (expensive), they won't travel well. But Butlers and some of the smaller guys like skelligs chocolates (yum yum) do a good export trade.

You have to find the right person - normal retail staff wouldn't have the knowledge to do that and you'd be amazed at the amount of time wasting emails (I spend an hour a day on mails that I know won;t result in sales)

Shaving.ie and places like that can be good as they have knowledge, their range is specialised and the stuff is cheap to post, and better still, us men need to shave a few times a week - so new product is always needed.

Judgement Day

Many Irish retailers provide a slipshod service on the high street so you can hardly expect them to do better online. Certainly where I live there is a 'take it or leave it' attitude from retailers even though many are on the brink.

Dodge

recipio wrote: »

On thing I can't understand is how retailers set up a website and then seem to abandon it. Surely it does not cost much for somebody to sit down once a day and actually answer emails ?

Its not just answering e-mails. From my (limited) expereince, the most important thing on an online shop is stock maintenence. So if you sell 10 large t-shirts, you better make you you have 10 large ready (or nearly ready). If you're sold out, you need to let your online customers know too.

The main points have already been covered
1) Competition with online retailers from US, UK and everywhere else
2) Relatively small market comapred to investment needed

I'm sure things will improve but it'll be slow and steady at first

recipio

Well, I'm all for a federal Europe, just like the US. One postal service for 500 million people. How about a tunnel to link us to the UK then on to Europe..?
However, Governments with their vested interests will have their own agenda.

Xzen

seamus wrote: »

Irish retailers seem to have been very slow to establish a fully online presence

A lot of retailers here have to deal with massive rental costs on street, and many have been around and gotten stuck in the "what's this whole internet m'larky" side of things.

I think the way forward, for a lot of small retailers a least, who want an online presence is to start with a simple, ready to go platform.

Just-Eat is a prime example of this kind of platform.

For years take-away made their livings with flyers and leaflets popped through the letterbox and orders placed by phone (and often got it wrong if you don't have a Cork/Irish accent in my experience ). Just-Eat came along with a ready made platform and central point of contact online for any orders.

Such a system is what's needed here for other areas in retail. Perhaps it could be something a community/company could be brought about/paid for by the govt to promote jobs and improve Irish businesses?

galwayjohn89

Xzen wrote: »

A lot of retailers here have to deal with massive rental costs on street, and many have been around and gotten stuck in the "what's this whole internet m'larky" side of things.

I think the way forward, for a lot of small retailers a least, who want an online presence is to start with a simple, ready to go platform.

Just-Eat is a prime example of this kind of platform.

For years take-away made their livings with flyers and leaflets popped through the letterbox and orders placed by phone (and often got it wrong if you don't have a Cork/Irish accent in my experience ). Just-Eat came along with a ready made platform and central point of contact online for any orders.

Such a system is what's needed here for other areas in retail. Perhaps it could be something a community/company could be brought about/paid for by the govt to promote jobs and improve Irish businesses?

Sounds like buy4now which I find useless as a customer. Maybe if it was improved it could work better

rubadub

the groutch wrote: »

i had a similar experience with Holland & Barrett, the items were put through the till in a random store and bunged into an envelope.

I think a lot of established bricks & mortar retailers just view having a website like having an ad in the golden pages, they do not particularly want to engage in e-commerce and treat getting email orders like ones over the phone. They like to be on the bandwagon of having a website, some might set one up just to secure the website address before somebody else nicks it. For this reason you will see many seemingly abandoned websites, where you get no response from emails and info is out of date.

recipio

rubadub wrote: »

I think a lot of established bricks & mortar retailers just view having a website like having an ad in the golden pages, they do not particularly want to engage in e-commerce and treat getting email orders like ones over the phone. They like to be on the bandwagon of having a website, some might set one up just to secure the website address before somebody else nicks it. For this reason you will see many seemingly abandoned websites, where you get no response from emails and info is out of date.

I agree totally.
If you get good service from an outlet you will stick with them. Why are so many retailers unwilling to engage in a friendly manner.? The worst are the one line emails I get from US sites. I was having trouble getting mail order company to accept my address - the answer : 'please fix your address ' !

iDave

Many are put off by the lenghty process setting up merchant bank accounts

zagmund

Interesting discussion. Many Irish retailers do seem to have the "ah sure" approach to online & phone orders.

I've been trying to buy a particular stove here for a while. There was one particular expensive (~€5k) one we were looking at and were close to buying. I rang the stockist up north - no problem, we have them on display, we're open on Saturdays, etc . . . all the information I could need. I rang the Irish distributor and may have accidentally stepped into a scene from "The Savage Eye" . . . "Wha? You want a wha?" . . . "You do sell stoves, right?" . . . "Ah yeah, stoves" . . . <snip> . . . "I'll get the guy who does the stoves to ring you when he's back from lunch". Two months later, no call back. That's a €5k order that *called you up* - if you want to throw away orders, this is the way to do it.

We since decided to look at other stoves and have quote from two local companies. I emailed two other suppliers in the region asking for a price for a specific model . . . two minutes work on their part . . . no response back from them, no nothing. That's a sale they definitely won't be getting. It's one thing if they replied and were too expensive - at least they would have tried, but to not even bother replying is madness.

I understand that there is a lot of time wasting online, but c'mon, there's a lot of time wasting in the real world too. How many couples who potter around furniture stores on weekends and talk and talk and talk and talk to the salespeople actually convert into a sale for that shop ? I would say a tiny fraction, yet the retailer knows that this is the way business is done. It's the ones that convert that are important, but you *can't convert* into a sale if you don't engage as a retailer. Simple as.

z

recipio

Spot on Zagmund.
The sad truth is that a lot of Irish people are in business who are in the wrong career.I know the Yanks teach 'phone etiquette' in high school - maybe something we shoud do in transition year.?

Judgement Day

About four years ago I was considering buying a new laptop from a large nationwide retailer and I asked a manager for some information which - of course somebody in his elevated position wouldn't know - he said he would get somebody to come to me. After 10/15 minutes fruitless waiting I left - I could still be standing there and it wasn't even as if the shop was busy. More recently I have twice tried to purchase books online from Kenny's (Galway) - items listed online were no longer available but money was still taken from my account and they had to be chased to return it. I try to shop local but the service offered is frequently dire. One local health food shop that can only supply products carried by their wholesaler i.e. they will not order from any other source - laziness, nothing more.

sink

It's all about scale.

We have a small population and so selling domestically you can't justify spending as much setting up an operation as if you were in a larger country as the return on investment just isn't there.

Shipping to continental Europe is very expensive and our VAT rate is usually a lot higher, so Irish businesses trying to compete in that market are at a distinct disadvantage.

There are new EU regulations on distance selling coming in which require distance sellers to charge VAT at the rate of the country they're shipping to. Good news for Irish retailers, bad news for Irish consumers. You will see that Irish business are very competitive compared with our European neighbours when they all have to pay Irish VAT rates when selling to us.

recipio

Are there any Irish couriers doing regular runs to Continental Europe. ? I tried to import some mercury barometers from Belgium but when they heard the word 'mercury' the ran a mile.It would seem the success of small scale retailing is directly a function of the postal costs of that country. As for the VAT rate, if any company tries to charge me 23% I'll go elsewhere.

snubbleste

recipio wrote: »

..As for the VAT rate, if any company tries to charge me 23% I'll go elsewhere.

How can they not charge you 23%?

recipio

snubbleste wrote: »

How can they not charge you 23%?

Its not in place yet. Can you see every EU retailer modifing their computer programmes to suit every individual country.? I'm a bit skeptical to say the least.