We're now more corrupt under FG/Lab

loggedoff

So, almost 2 years in office and under the new 'transparent' form of government promised, we've slipped 11 places in the corrupt league.
Seem's Enda's pally pally approach with the likes of Denis O'Brien and lack of action on the tribunal results are costing us when it comes to FDI.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1205/breaking2.html


Take a bow FG/Labour, no better, in fact worse than what went before.

squod

Majority government with a party whip system will lead to these kinds of things.

seamus

It's a perception index, not a measure of actual corruption. It's natural that people's perception of corruption will be inverse to their perception of the state of their economy and how much money they have. If they're losing money, somebody must be screwing them out of it.

The previous years also had threads here with people remarking how exceptionally high we were, it always seemed a bit off. I would say that this years' one is our "correct" position as it has been for a number of years, rather than any change in the level of corruption. When things were going well, people would be less likely to say that corruption is high.

Realistically we're still in the "pretty good, room to improve" range rather than "basket case, brown envelopes everywhere".

loggedoff

seamus wrote: »

It's a perception index, not a measure of actual corruption. It's natural that people's perception of corruption will be inverse to their perception of the state of their economy and how much money they have. If they're losing money, somebody must be screwing them out of it.

The previous years also had threads here with people remarking how exceptionally high we were, it always seemed a bit off. I would say that this years' one is our "correct" position as it has been for a number of years, rather than any change in the level of corruption. When things were going well, people would be less likely to say that corruption is high.

Realistically we're still in the "pretty good, room to improve" range rather than "basket case, brown envelopes everywhere".

Only thing is that we seem to be heading in the wrong direction.

Frank Black

Subjective, meaningless survey really.

bijapos

squod wrote: »

Majority government with a party whip system will lead to these kinds of things.

On the contrary most countries at the top have majority governments with a whip system, and Ireland has had this for decades as well, but we still managed to slip down the scale.

black francis wrote: »

Subjective, meaningless survey really.

A survey of experts and businesspeople might be subjective but transparency Internationals reports are hardly meaningless, it's the most respected international guideline to corruption in various countries and slipping 11 places on it is a bad sign.

They said in their report that the inaction of the government in the wake of Moriarty is partially to blame along with failure to implement more transparency as promised. Anyone who wants this swept under the carpet with a throwaway remark like that is merely sticking their heads in the sand.

squod

bijapos wrote: »

On the contrary most countries at the top have majority governments with a whip system, and Ireland has had this for decades as well,

Which I don't agree with. Most decisions are made behind closed doors by few people and debates on the floor are really just for show. There can be no democracy under this system. The shysters running the place get a free hand no matter what.

Biggins

bijapos wrote: »

...They said in their report that the inaction of the government in the wake of Moriarty is partially to blame along with failure to implement more transparency as promised...

Therein lies the important heart of the matter.

...But then again, we have learned (well some of us have) just how much trust we can put in FG and Labour words!

Bugger all!

loggedoff

Biggins wrote: »

Therein lies the important heart of the matter.

...But then again, we have learned (well some of us have) just how much trust we can put in FG and Labour words!

Bugger all!

Any politicians words!
Is it any wonder bertie heads to nigeria to give lessons.
He learned his trade well.

bleg

After about a month in office cold water was poured on all their great reform ideas. It seems they got too comfortable with their perks, mercs and jobs as advisors for their friends. There are 5 or 6 honest tds in the dail

Peanut2011

As long as we have parish politics being played, the corruption will be alive and well. New medical centers and football clubs come to mind.

While the rest of the country is struggling! Furthermore, any TD who does not vote the way their party wants them to vote is kicked out, so hardly a democratic way to lead the country.

Celly Smunt

I reckon we let the chruch have full control again.

franktheplank

I think in years to come people will look back at a number of quango style organizations as being the real centres of corruption in this era.

I think FAS was just the tip of the iceberg and it's where the state is handing out huge amount of money to other private or semi-state organisations that we're really being screwed and there is feck all being done to tackle it.

loggedoff

So, we can take it from yesterday that we will slip more places on the corruption ladder.
They have the balls to hit the low to middle earners and no balls to increase the USC rate for high earners.
They can take money from children but not from bankers.
Money talks in this corrupt little hole, of that there's no doubt.
Shame on FG/Lab for this and even more shame on the Irish people for letting them away with it.

HowAreWe

oh Piss off......

FG/LB or FF all the ****ing same thats whats wrong with this country. They're no different to what preceded them. Everyone will vote FF next time around and it'll be the same story again.

SafeSurfer

seamus wrote: »

It's a perception index, not a measure of actual corruption. It's natural that people's perception of corruption will be inverse to their perception of the state of their economy and how much money they have. If they're losing money, somebody must be screwing them out of it.

The previous years also had threads here with people remarking how exceptionally high we were, it always seemed a bit off. I would say that this years' one is our "correct" position as it has been for a number of years, rather than any change in the level of corruption. When things were going well, people would be less likely to say that corruption is high.

Realistically we're still in the "pretty good, room to improve" range rather than "basket case, brown envelopes everywhere".

I would think that the perception of corruption would have been higher during the boom, with the various tribunals, Galway tent syndrome, re-zoning and planning and the temptation that the extra money in the economy brought.

The failure of the present government to tackle issues such as banker's salaries and pensions give ordinary people the opinion that vested interests and elites are corruptly protected.

Lets not forget that arguably one of the most corrupt actions in the state in recent times was taken by FG minister Michael Lowry. There are currently cases before the courts seeking multi million euro damages for the unsuccessful bidders for the second mobile phone licences.

Peanut2011

HowAreWe wrote: »

oh Piss off......

FG/LB or FF all the ****ing same thats whats wrong with this country. They're no different to what preceded them. Everyone will vote FF next time around and it'll be the same story again.

Wish I could say you are wrong. It would seem people have a very short memory span. As long as the same bunch gets voted in under different banners nothing will change.

loggedoff

HowAreWe wrote: »

oh Piss off......

FG/LB or FF all the ****ing same thats whats wrong with this country. They're no different to what preceded them. Everyone will vote FF next time around and it'll be the same story again.

Piss off?

FG/Lab are the ones in power.
Remember, a new approach to politics!
FF are no different, a new way of running the country is needed.

Piss off indeed!