Vandalising of Kingsmill memorial: Would even the Real IRA stand over this?

MakeEmLaugh

Earlier this week, a memorial established to commemorate ten people killed at Kingsmill, South Armagh in 1976 was desecrated. For those not aware, on January 5 1976, the Provisional IRA (acting under the name 'South Armagh Republican Action Force') stopped a minibus of men returning home from work in Kingsmill.

The passengers were asked if there were any Catholics on board. The bus driver stepped forward, unaware of whether the gang were loyalists or republicans. He was then told to run. The eleven men who remained - all Protestant - were machine gunned and then shot in the head. All but one died.

Those killed were not soldiers, not policemen, not members of the UVF or UDA. A more blatant act of murderous sectarianism - of killing people based on their religion - did not take place during the Troubles.

During the week, while those erecting a monument to the murdered men were on break, it was desecrated. The letters 'IRA' was carved into wet cement.

Is there a single person reading this post who would stand over this act of vandalism? I don't even think those who claim to support the killers of David Black or Ronan Kerr could say this was anything other than the behaviour of utter, utter lowlifes.

Many expressed shame that Savita Halappanavar died in an Irish hospital. Would anyone not feel shame that the initials of an organisation proclaiming itself 'Irish' could be used in such a deeply disrespectful way?

admiralofthefleet

there was me thinking this was about bread

MakeEmLaugh

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Many expressed shame that Savita Halappanavar died in an Irish hospital. Would anyone not feel shame that the initials of an organisation proclaiming itself 'Irish' could be used in such a deeply disrespectful way?

I hope nobody suggests you have an agenda here.

GRMA

disgraceful.

But I dont like the tone of your op where you are basically challenging Irish people over this, it had nothing to do with Irish people in general at all, but merely a handful of scumbag vandals.

Jesus Shaves

Meh, memorials for this that and everything these days, I'm completely against memorials myself as I think it just adds to the fact fact that certain groups are still living in the past

GRMA

A more blatant act of murderous sectarianism - of killing people based on their religion - did not take place during the Troubles.

I wish this was true but unfortunately not, all sides did very terrible things. (Miami showband comes to mind as something very similar)

For republicans disgraceful sectarian killings like Kingsmills, I can't condemn it strongly enough, were the exception, or at least didnt make up the bulk of their activity. For loyalists sectarian killings were their MO.

Rented Mule

Ironic username does not have me laughing.

GRMA

I think you'll struggle to find any person, group etc who would condone what happened to the memorial

FouxDaFaFa

It's horrible what they did, desecrating a memorial. But they're not acting on my behalf. Your post reads like we should accept responsibility but just because they purport to represent the Irish people doesn't make it so.

MakeEmLaugh

GRMA wrote: »

disgraceful.

But I dont like the tone of your op where you are basically challenging Irish people over this, it had nothing to do with Irish people in general at all, but merely a handful of scumbag vandals.

I am not challenging Irish people. I am Irish myself. I think I could describe the feelings I have over this as shame. Shame and anger. That may seem dramatic - after all, as you said, this had nothing to do with me, or Irish people in general.

But it hurts me when the Irish people's name is dragged through the mud like this, just as it hurts me to see footage of angry crowds in England in the 1970s, carrying signs that say "Go home Paddy" after an IRA bomb killed innocent people. I feel furious to see that, but not at those carrying the placards, at those who planted the bomb.

GRMA wrote: »

I wish this was true but unfortunately not, all sides did very terrible things. (Miami showband comes to mind as something very similar)

For republicans disgraceful sectarian killings like Kingsmills, I can't condemn it strongly enough, were the exception, or at least didnt make up the bulk of their activity. For loyalists sectarian killings were their MO.

I stand by what I said. Nothing more sectarian was done in the Troubles. Things as sectarian certainly, but not more.

girl in the striped socks

What's the connection between the memorial & savita?

Chuck Stone

Disgusting disrespectful act.

Shame on whoever did it.

Fratton Fred

Shocking act. I'm sure vandalism of a memorial to victims of loyalist atrocities would receive a lot more condemnation from our "patriot" friends but nice to see they are at least condemning it.

for some unknown and completely ****ed up reason, a few twats on this island want to rekindle the troubles and start the whole thing off again. even more depressing is that young easily influenced kids are looking up at these guys as heroes and trying to follow in their footsteps by doing stupid things like this.

Unfortunately, all the time people like Alan Ryan are considered heroes and receive what wasn't far short of a state funeral, this sort of thing will continue. There are also posters on here who like to big up these guys and defend their actions. I mean, if the people who did this were arrested and put in prison, some idiot somewhere would be demanding they were treated as POWs and given special privileges.

FUBAR.

AudreyHepburn

Shame on whoever did this. They are as bad as those who killed those men.

I don't understand how people involved in such organisations as the IRA can call themselves Irish and say they fight for us.

Any true Irish person who truely wants the best for this country would lay down their arms and allow peace to continue.

The people involved in this act and those they support are no more the violent, shameless thugs.

.jacksparrow.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Shocking act. I'm sure vandalism of a memorial to victims of loyalist atrocities would receive a lot more condemnation from our "patriot" friends but nice to see they are at least condemning it.

for some unknown and completely ****ed up reason, a few twats on this island want to rekindle the troubles and start the whole thing off again. even more depressing is that young easily influenced kids are looking up at these guys as heroes and trying to follow in their footsteps by doing stupid things like this.

Unfortunately, all the time people like Alan Ryan are considered heroes and receive what wasn't far short of a state funeral, this sort of thing will continue. There are also posters on here who like to big up these guys and defend their actions. I mean, if the people who did this were arrested and put in prison, some idiot somewhere would be demanding they were treated as POWs and given special privileges.

FUBAR.

Very ironic statement,a day after catholic homes were attacked in the short strand again,all over a flag.

You're right there are morons who won't let the past go.

Frank Black

GRMA wrote: »

For republicans disgraceful sectarian killings like Kingsmills, I can't condemn it strongly enough, were the exception, or at least didnt make up the bulk of their activity.

That's true, they also needed to dedicate time to robbery, racketeering, kneecapping, bombing, smuggling, arson, kidnapping and establishing animal shelters for homeless puppies.

delta_bravo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Unfortunately, all the time people like Alan Ryan are considered heroes and receive what wasn't far short of a state funeral
FUBAR.

He didn't though. His pals played dress up wit their green jumpers and put the flag on his coffin. There was absolutely zero state involvement in the funeral so to state it as that is simply incorrect. You're using a bit too much hyperbole I think.

Fratton Fred

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Very ironic statement,a day after catholic homes were attacked in the short strand again,all over a flag.

You're right there are morons who won't let the past go.

what's ironic about it? they are two sides of the same coin to be honest.

delta_bravo wrote: »

He didn't though. His pals played dress up wit their green jumpers and put the flag on his coffin. There was absolutely zero state involvement in the funeral so to state it as that is simply incorrect. You're using a bit too much hyperbole I think.

well, the state did have a field day rounding up the bhoys later, but I was referring to the scale of it rather than the actual official nature of the thing.

lets face it though, kids look at people like Ryan, who is lauded as a hero and think that they can do whatever they like, be it knifing a German student or vandalising a memorial.

Ush1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

lets face it though, kids look at people like Ryan, who is lauded as a hero and think that they can do whatever they like, be it knifing a German student or vandalising a memorial.

So you believe the guys who stabbed that German student had some political motivations?

LordSutch

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Meh, memorials for this that and everything these days, I'm completely against memorials myself as I think it just adds to the fact fact that certain groups are still living in the past

Just looking at the video from post#1 and the thought that strikes me is why on gods earth would anyone want to vandalise such a monument, specially with the relatives of the murdered ones still alive & still grieving today.
Kingsmill memorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmPQsoSioys&feature=player_embedded

Fratton Fred

Ush1 wrote: »

So you believe the guys who stabbed that German student had some political motivations?

No, they were just thugs. But thugs seem to be glorified for some reason.

gobnaitolunacy

It's not irrepairably damaged, just looks to me like they just scratched letters into the wet concrete, which may have a stone facing going over it anyway.

Still, it is a scummy, insensitive thing to do, probably kids having a 'laugh'.

seamus

Is there any reason to believe that this just wasn't a case of your common or garden scumbags vandalising something public?

Ush1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, they were just thugs. But thugs seem to be glorified for some reason.

Yes, they were just thugs, I strongly doubt they gave a hoot who Ryan was or what his funeral was like.

AudreyHepburn

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Shame on whoever did this. They are as bad as those who killed those men.

The people who did this were thugs but vandalising some concrete is not quite on the same scale of badness as machine-gunning 10 innocent people.

awec

Shameful and disgusting but I put it down to intellectually challenged teenage hoods more than anything.

Rasheed

seamus wrote: »

Is there any reason to believe that this just wasn't a case of your common or garden scumbags vandalising something public?

Yes I thought that too. It's like something a common little bollox would do.

I would have thought if the IRA wanted to vandalise the monument, they would have gone further than writing in wet concrete.

gobnaitolunacy

Rasheed wrote: »

Yes I thought that too. It's like something a common little bollox would do.

I would have thought if the IRA wanted to vandalise the monument, they would have gone further than writing in wet concrete.

All media hyperbole, if the workmen on the monument had smoothed out the concrete with a trowel before anyone copped it, it would be a non-story.
I'll bet the little scummers are getting a kick about their scratching getting all this attention.

Cienciano

Just reading about the massacre.

"Ten of them died at the scene but one, Alan Black, survived despite having eighteen gunshot wounds"

Fiddy cent is only in the ha'penny place

MakeEmLaugh

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

What's the connection between the memorial & savita?

Many people expressed feelings of shame on the death of Savita Halappanavar. On social networking sites I saw many, many people write that they were "ashamed to be Irish". I believe their feelings of shame stemmed from the death of a wife and mother-to-be in an Irish state hospital. Their grief was empathic to the family and loved ones of Savita Halappanavar.

They also wanted to show to those watching that they did not condone such an event in an Irish hospital, and they wanted to ensure it would not be tolerated. Ultimately, however, their culpability for Savita’s death was nonexistent. Those responsible were the medical consultant(s) and politicians who continually failed to legislate for such a toxic issue.

The ordinary Irish people could have said “what happened to Savita was terrible, but it’s got nothing to do with me”. However, they didn’t. They took to the streets to show their utter disapproval.

I don’t believe people should take to the streets over the desecration of the Kingsmill memorial, but if all we do is shrug our shoulders and say “it has nothing to do with me”, we are not showing empathy to the family and loved ones of the victims.

Perhaps shame is not the appropriate word to use here, but would Irish people not feel angry, that someone would scratch the initials ‘IRA’ onto a monument erected to innocent victims of that very organisation? Are we not angry that, even in 2012, the word ‘Irish’ is still used to slander the name of the people of Ireland?

Let me put it this way; suppose the monument erected to commemorate the seven people killed by a loyalist car bomb in Monaghan on 17 Mary 1974 was desecrated with the initials ‘UVF’. Suppose an Ulster Unionist MLA - someone whose own organisation bears the word ’Ulster’ and who is utterly opposed to Northern Ireland ever uniting with the Republic - came out and condemned the vandalism in the strongest terms.

Would the people of Monaghan, or the Irish people in general, say “It had nothing to do with you, so I don’t know why you are mentioning it”? Or would they say “Thank you for showing that not all unionists are so disrespectful to the dead”?

GRMA

Graves and memorials for nationalists who were murdered have often been smashed up and defaced in the way you describe. Shameful but I dont expect normal people to feel guilt or whatever for the acts of scumbags

Galwayguy35

It was a scummy thing to do but I really don't know what you expect people to say about it.

We didn't do it so you are right, it is nothing to do with us.

MakeEmLaugh

GRMA wrote: »

Graves and memorials for nationalists who were murdered have often been smashed up and defaced in the way you describe. Shameful but I dont expect normal people to feel guilt or whatever for the acts of scumbags

Not guilt, but would you feel anger?

Incidentally, do you feel angry when the graves and memorials for nationalists that you mentioned are defaced? If so, surely you would feel the same about this incident?