Maintenance Payments In Separation Scenario

Dougal O

Hi,

My wife and I are separating. I've left the family home, and have been sleeping in friend's and family's places.

Wife and three kids are staying in the family home. I've been put on my area's Council Housing List.

I'm not working, claiming JA for just myself, from which I'm paying 40% to my wife as maintenance, as agreed in mediation (but not yet court-ordered or in any way legally-bound). I have a few months contract work lined up for early in the new year, and the certain prospect of a permanent, full-time position early in the new year.

I can't continue to pay this maintenance to my wife. The remainder is for covering the costs of eating, running my car (NCT & tax now both out of date, and I've got to cover the cost of repairs to my car this week), and caring for my kids on the days I have them, but it's not covering those costs. I simply can't exist on what's left after I contribute to my wife & kids. My bank account is overdrawn, and I owe approx €2000+ to friends who've been generous to me.

Family & friend's strong advice is to stop paying maintenance: my out-goings simply exceed my JA, and that's just not sustainable.

To give some perspective on that thought-position: my wife originally claimed that the marriage collapsed solely because of me - I neglected her and didn't look for work after I lost my job. Those claims/accusations are both true, but not to the extent to announce out of the blue (without ever saying anything to either of our families or any of our friends, or suggesting or agreeing to counseling) that we're separating: I neglected her no more than any other spouse does after 20+ years together - sparks naturally fade in relationships, and when you're neck-deep in a life of mortgage and three children together, life just isn't that sparky anyway, and my redundancy payment covered all bills - never missed one payment - and we still went on summer holidays. Despite (or amidst) this claim, it turned out that within three months of announcing she wanted to separate, my wife was in a relationship with her boss of one year, with a lot of indications that that relationship probably started while we were still married.

I agree with the logic of that advice, but I can't stomach the attacks I know would come from my wife - I'm a crap father, can't even support his kids. However pseudo-amicable things have been thus far, that'd disintegrate instantly once I announce I can't continue to pay.

I've worked my whole life - like many unemployed folk today. Decent house, two cars, sun holidays every year - I've always provided for my family.

But now, I can't. I can only just about provide for myself. Even if I get working again, my circumstance now that I'm on my own means that whatever money I do earn will have to be spread thinner. I've done analyses of hypothetical earning situations I might find myself in (accounting for the likelihood that I'll soon be living alone in my own rented accommodation, covered by rent supplement) - 1. receiving JA, 2, earning the lower of my salary-scale, and 3. earning the higher of my salary-scale. No situation allows me to pay any maintenance payment. No matter what I earn, I won't even net the amount I'll need to just exist, let alone live.

So is it acceptable for me to cease maintenance payments? Would my wife be re-assessed in terms of any benefits she's getting (none of which I'm privvy to), if my maintenance payments to her stop?

I love my three great children, and I hate the thoughts of them suffering, or missing out on stuff because I stop my maintenance payments.

Thanks for your time, and apologies if my post is long-winded.

I'm seeing a solicitor tomorrow, but would appreciate any comments or advice from folk who've been here.

Abi

I hope the visit with the solicitor went well. I would imagine that they would have suggested that you go to court regarding the maintenance, to have everything sorted officially. The court will means test you, which is important as I feel you're over paying given what you're taking in and your expenditure.

If you go to your local district court office the clerk will be able to give you a form to fill out where I advise you sing like a canary as to every last cent you spend, including while the children are with you, and what you owe in terms of debt.

You need to take this step or you'll never survive this way. I think people ought to be careful when in mediation. When separating of course you'd want to do the right thing by your children and shared debt, but you need to survive also.

Is your ex living with this man btw? If this ever happens you're entitled to bring her back to court to have a reassessment of means, as there is then a dual income in the household.

You also need to stop load bearing the blame on this. It's sad, it's unfortunate that things went this way, but it does happens to some couples that the spark fades. I've a feeling she's done a lot of finger pointing which isn't fair, she moved on fast enough.

You don't have to explain yourself to anyone OP, just get this into court so you aren't , what I believe, is having the wool pulled over your eyes.

Dougal O

Thanks Abi.

My wife - to my knowledge - hasn't openly admitted to this relationship, other than to me.

He will never be moving in with my kids. I'll refrain from using dramatic and probably insane-sounding rhetoric, but this guy is very well known locally as bad news - not a man any parent would want their kids exposed do.

Solicitor told me to make a part-payment this week, which I did. I'm meeting him again next week, to draw up a letter outlining my income/expenses, and suggest either a reduced payment, or no payment at all, till I'm working again, or till I have my outstanding debts and bills sorted.

I'm beginning to feel the seeds of empowerment in building up to standing my ground and telling a simple, but very significant, truth - I can't sustain the payments I've been making.

I do know that I'm a decent dad, and that my kids will probably be fine, and once I'm earning again, I'll happily pay every cent I'm due. But you're on the right trail - I will get a lot of abuse and aggression when this breaks next week.

Thanks again.

Humans eh!

Dougal O wrote: »

I'm beginning to feel the seeds of empowerment in building up to standing my ground and telling a simple, but very significant, truth - I can't sustain the payments I've been making.

Don't want to put a downer on it my friend but trust me the court system is completely weighted against you as a man.
having no income and living on the breadline is not seen as an excuse when sitting in a court trying to explain yourself.
I ended up homeless sleeping in my car, with literally the clothes on my back after my partner decided that I might be inconvenient to her affair. She hasn't let me see my children for two years and has kept all my posessions including a valuable art collection that I collected over many years. I lent her brother €28,000 for a deposit on a house which she claims as her right and despite her own income being three times what I get and I sit in my new flat freezing and often going hungry a well paid fat b*****d of a judge was unimpressed with my efforts and refused to let me see my kids.
I was treated for depression (brought about by the breakup which was not my choice) and this was used against me in court.
I felt like I was screaming behind a glass wall and got no sympathy or help (legal Aid was as useful as a cats hole)
It was a huge eye opener to find that someone that I had loved absolutely and never ever abused, cheated on or hurt could simply decide to excise me from our family without remorse or any shred of humanity and was facilitated all the way by this joke of a legal system.

Sorry about that little rant but my advice to you mate is to literally account for every penny you earn/spend and be prepared to enter court and be treated as if you did wrong before you open your mouth. You will be forced to justify your very existence and this may come as a shock to you as it did to me. The opposing solicitor will use semantics and various techniques to undermine you in the eyes of the court even though you are simply there to assert your rights.

It's a really f***ed up system and please don't go in expecting fairness or assume that the truth will be listened to or matter. People wonder why there are so many bitter and angry separated fathers out there. I will consider it fortunate if I survive this Christmas. It takes your soul away and leaves an empty shell in its wake. I really have lost the will to live.

Good luck to you mate. Let us know how you get on. Be prepared it can come as quite a shock when someone that you shared so much love, life and experiences with can stare across a courtroom at you as if you were a stray dog that they wanted to drop off at the pound. Feminism has won this one I'm afraid.

But hey don't despair, that is just my experience (and that of several men I have met) I just thought that you should prepare for the worst but I really hope it works out for you.

Abi

Dougal O wrote: »

Thanks Abi.

My wife - to my knowledge - hasn't openly admitted to this relationship, other than to me.

He will never be moving in with my kids. I'll refrain from using dramatic and probably insane-sounding rhetoric, but this guy is very well known locally as bad news - not a man any parent would want their kids exposed do.

Please do not bring this attitude into court. Unless this person has a criminal record or something strong against him, you might as well drop this angle. It is so bad, and I admit it as a woman, that the children lie in the care of the mother first. Generally speaking, it should be the set way of things, but it's not always the right way.

You're a great father, and you hold that standing all of the way through this. Your circumstances aren't the best, but that does NOT make you a bad father. It makes her greedy to assume you can hold up the same maintenance when you can barely survive.

Solicitor told me to make a part-payment this week, which I did. I'm meeting him again next week, to draw up a letter outlining my income/expenses, and suggest either a reduced payment, or no payment at all, till I'm working again, or till I have my outstanding debts and bills sorted.

I like this, and do this if you can. It shows the intention to look after your children, rather than neglect them. This will always be favourable towards the court, yet ask the court to consider your financial circumstances.

I'm beginning to feel the seeds of empowerment in building up to standing my ground and telling a simple, but very significant, truth - I can't sustain the payments I've been making.

Keep up this line of thinking, the visit with the solicitor has done you the world of good. You have to fight this, not her, just your rights.

I do know that I'm a decent dad, and that my kids will probably be fine, and once I'm earning again, I'll happily pay every cent I'm due. But you're on the right trail - I will get a lot of abuse and aggression when this breaks next week.

Of course you are, all you're asking for is some financial understanding which you are not getting. It will be a bit bumpy, but all you're asking her to be is to be reasonable.

Don't succumb to the aggression, she knows full well you're not working. If she attempts to stop access over this, get into the district court and go after her for official access to your children.

I'm sorry this has happened, but it just seems that things whittled out, but sadly thats life. You're only asked to pay your share, what is left of the maintenance and shared debt within your means.

You are a good Dad, regardless of what crap she comes up with. All you're expected to do as a Dad is pay what you CAN. End of.

JJJJNR

Quick question, why did you move out of your house, when your not obliged to move out ?