Poll: Whose fault was your crash?

cdaly_

So, given all the goings on about being seen, how often when you crashed was it somebody else's fault and, therefore, how much did 'being seen' matter?

In my cycling career (and I use the word advisedly), I've had a few crashes / collisions. In all but one case, I reckon the fault was mine and the one case involved another cyclist crashing in front of me taking me out with him. The rest were a combination of poor road positioning / taking chances and once a blow out due to not checking a tyre after cycling through broken glass.

I don't think I've been taken out by a motorist not seeing me.


Poll above...

Beasty

The Council (they settled out of court;))

EDIT - actually it was their sub-contractor, but they went bust before the case was settled

billyhead

I have only had 2 bad ones. Drivers fault in my first bad crash. The idiot drove right out in front of me at a junction and I subsequently flew over the bonnet. Had a few other crashes off the bike due to wet roads/ice and taking the turns to sharp. No major damage apart form the latest in which I am nursing a few fractures in my pelvis.

Wishbone Ash

3 accidents (all this year :rolleyes:)

1 - (January) black ice under trees on a bend.
2 - (March) doored by a taxi passenger exiting onto a cycle track.
3 - (October) motorist crossed my path without yielding to me when making a right turn - claimed she didn't see me.

el Bastardo

Just the one (in adult life): Motorist drove straight across my side of the road to turn onto a side road. He claimed he never saw me. Being seen wouldn't have made much difference. It was early enough in the evening, still bright enough to not need lights, summertime, and the idiot was still wearing his cheap sunglasses, so I doubt he could see much at all!

Victor

The most that was my fault was a bust lip. Motorists have put me in hospital 4 times, although kept in overnight only once, along with a dozen or so scrapes.

buffalo

Some of my thankfully minor incidents could be called my fault for not positioning myself more assertively, or indeed more ...elusively? i.e. assuming nobody's going to check their mirrors or yield, until you actually see the car stop.

Jawgap

2 crashes when I was stupid enough to go cycling in really icy weather, a third when I descended too quickly and hit some loose gravel that I saw on the way up and made a mental note to avoid on the way down - except the note must have been blown away in the wind.....

Fourth, a jeep driving tw@t went for a gap that wasn't there because I was in it.

Then there was also the header I did over the handlebars when my scepticism led me to test the warnings about not cycling close and parallel to the LUAS tracks - knobbly MTB tyres do fit in the gap - theory disproven:)

and recently there was the tumble I took when returning from an especially pleasant spin I concluded the morning with an all out sprint finishing with a freewheel onto the driveway and down the side of the house, forgetting I pulled the wheely-bins out.

Everything except the first three resulted in scratches, bumps and bruises - those first three were A&E jobs for broken collarbones.

Hmmzis

The only crash with another vehicle I had was the drivers fault. She said that she did not see me. Since I had a hiviz jacket on and two decent sets of lights at the front and a helmet, I would say none of the so called safety measures work to prevent a collision. The helmet did its job during the collision though.

Frank Black

Probably a combination of Bertie Ahern and the Regulator.

NeedMoreGears

In the past five ears or so, I've had a few each of which are special in their own way.

One due excess speed/braking too hard - all my own work (no.1 for style - lots of back wheel wobbling from side to side)
One due being bullied off the road by a car - 50/50. He an idiot, I should have been more assertive in my road positioning (no.1 for lesson learned)
One due ice - mine all mine (personal best in the head-hitting-hard stakes)
One due front wheel in a rut - mine all mine (most painful but no head contact with ground)
One due car pulling across me - 100% the car (no1 scary)

No significant damage to me or bike but I was glad to have had the helmet as I got a right thump on the head in all but one.

seamus

3 x ice (one serious)
3 x left-turning cars
1 x physical assault

Crippens1

Hmmzis wrote: »

The only crash with another vehicle I had was the drivers fault. She said that she did not see me. Since I had a hiviz jacket on and two decent sets of lights at the front and a helmet, I would say none of the so called safety measures work to prevent a collision. The helmet did its job during the collision though.

I had a similar one earlier this year when hit by a right-turning car; ended up with a broken wrist. Again, the "I didn't see you" excuse was one of the first things the driver said (although he apeared truly shocked and accepted full responsibility). I was on a white bike with 2 front lights flashing, wearing a white helmet, bright red jeersey and ... it was daylight!

There has to be some profound cognitive dissonace going on in the minds of certain drivers as, despite the apparent ridiculousness of the excuse, I believe it is literally the truth; they really didn't see you!

This should be considered in the various road safety programmes to inform the advice that is given to road users.

g0g

I don't see an option for God?

Who else can we blame for weather or sharp corners (because of the shape of the land)!?

mitosis

Crippens1 wrote: »

I had a similar one earlier this year when hit by a right-turning car; ended up with a broken wrist. Again, the "I didn't see you" excuse was one of the first things the driver said (although he apeared truly shocked and accepted full responsibility). I was on a white bike with 2 front lights flashing, wearing a white helmet, bright red jeersey and ... it was daylight!

There has to be some profound cognitive dissonace going on in the minds of certain drivers as, despite the apparent ridiculousness of the excuse, I believe it is literally the truth; they really didn't see you!

This should be considered in the various road safety programmes to inform the advice that is given to road users.

Yeah, motorists tend to check there are no cars coming rather than check for all hazards.

With regard to "I didn't see you", would you prefer they said they had? :pac:

check_six

My last spill was caused by an exploding chain. I blame my maintenence regime.

How many spills have I avoided when I've done something dumb? Not many. If I do something stupid, I'll be kissing tarmac soon enough. These include taking corners too fast, or one memorable time hooking the end of a pair of shorts around a gear shifter while track standing in SPDs, cue comical pile of man and bike in heap on ground cursing sky. Thankfully, this is rare.

How many spills have I avoided when someone else has done something rock-headed? Too many to count. Motorists and to a lesser extent pedestrians cause me to take evasive action constantly. I'm guaranteed a 'right hook' manoeuver in front of me at some point every week (to clarify, that is someone looking directly at me, recognising that I'm there, and then choosing to drive across my path anyway). If I'm not smart about my cycling all the time someone will do something daft and catch me out. I am expecting this, but why aren't they?

Hmmzis

mitosis wrote: »

Yeah, motorists tend to check there are no cars coming rather than check for all hazards.

With regard to "I didn't see you", would you prefer they said they had? :pac:

Well, it would make for an entirely different case in the court room.

KenHy

Only ever had one crash in quite a few years cycling around Dublin (commuting and general getting from A-B) and it was yesterday.

100% another cyclists fault - I was in the car lane (going as fast if not faster then them) passing a row of slow moving cyclists in the cycle lane when one of them suddenly swerved 2 foot to their right and cleaned me out of it. He didn't even stay around despite the fact I'd obviously taken a crack to the head (had large and obvious cut on face!). He was very lucky it wasn't a bus or something coming behind because he didn't look at all before swerving into the vehicle lane!

Civilian_Target

Three crashes in 7 years.

First I got clipped by a motorists wing-mirror near Blanchardstown shopping centre that ran me into the curb - just scraped hands and knees
Second was a wet roundabout with oil on it in Warrenstown - I was going too fast, didn't see it and went down hard - bashed my knee and didn't cycle for 4 months
Third was this year, a car stopped at a stop sign started going when I was in front of them - the driver was not looking in front of her when she started moving - again, just scraped hands and knees

Statistically, about half of all commuter bike accidents involve only the cyclist themselves - according to Effective Cycling

Civilian_Target

KenHy wrote: »

Only ever had one crash in quite a few years cycling around Dublin (commuting and general getting from A-B) and it was yesterday.

100% another cyclists fault - I was in the car lane (going as fast if not faster then them) passing a row of slow moving cyclists in the cycle lane when one of them suddenly swerved 2 foot to their right and cleaned me out of it. He didn't even stay around despite the fact I'd obviously taken a crack to the head (had large and obvious cut on face!). He was very lucky it wasn't a bus or something coming behind because he didn't look at all before swerving into the vehicle lane!

I'm sorry to hear it, it's a very common type of accident!

By law in France, you should pass bikes with 1 metre in zones where the speed limit is under 70km/h, and 1.5 metres if the limit is 70km/h or over - whether in your car or on your bike, and that's why

DaveyDave

Most of my crashes have been my fault, but I've had at least 5 close calls in the past year where I've almost been seriously injured as a result of a motorist. If I'd have been hit in those stations it's 50/50 between not being seen i.e motorists swerving into bike lane to undertake turning car or getting cut off/not yielding despite seeing me.

In December 2010 I hit some black ice, came off the bike and rolled a bit. Bit of road rash on my right forearm and a hard knock on the chin.

In April 2011 I was clipped by a car on the Long Mile Road when I was in the bike lane and a woman pulled into the bus lane, I got knocked into the curb and slipped off the pedals landing on the top tube. Stood at the side of the road for 5 minutes bent over the bike hoping I'd still be able to have children one day, neither of them got out of the car even though they were stopped.

January this year I came off the bike at 45kph after clipping a speed bump, cut my knees and right elbow to shreds as well as injuring my back from landing on the bike.

February this year I had a spill at Ticknock where I went over the bars on a jump and landed on the boulders. Hard knock to the head and a separated shoulder. I didn't feel much pain until the adrenaline wore off 90 minutes later just as I was on my way to the VHI clinic which was the most painful experience of my life. I was in a sling for the next 6 weeks. Now I'm left with a nice lump were my collar bone is as my shoulder is 2-3 inches lower than it used to be. Had a nice fellow mountain biker stop to check my shoulder and get my bike and was going to get my brother in law who was ahead on the trail.

€600 or so on medical bills is hard in my mam's financial situation but my sister talked her into VHI and I didn't fancy going to Tallaght to be given some pain killers and fobbed off to the waiting room for hours. Had to get a new seat post and handlebars, dented my rear rim and my fork gave out. There's no spring to it whatsoever and it's not worth getting fixed. I just have to hold off until I can get a replacement.

Lusk Doyle

I've had three in my total history of cycling:

1. A young lad stepped off the path in Portmarnock village about 5 or 6 years ago as I was passing him on the road. No chance to avoid him. No damage. His fault.

2. Kennyb3 and the artist formally known as RT66 (as he was known then) sandwiched me in Malahide last year after a late jam on the brakes at the lights. Husrt like hell and bent my handlebars. Possibly my fault to an extent but mostly theirs!

3. Donore Open A4 race earlier this year. Made a break away attempt from the group and went down heavily on my left side. Cracked the helmet, broke a shoe and got some bad road rash - the scars of which I still have. Bike was ok. I blame the Guinness World Record breaking combine harvesters for leaving the road covered in sh1t! Charity is no excuse for ruining my cycle race!

Beasty

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

I've had three in my total history of cycling:

I seem to remember seeing your bike in a ditch on the way up the Nags Head last year - from what I can recall you were not attached to it at the time ...

... I'm sure you're going to say it was someone else's fault mind

Raam

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

3. Donore Open A4 race earlier this year. Made a break away attempt from the group and went down heavily on my left side. Cracked the helmet, broke a shoe and got some bad road rash - the scars of which I still have. Bike was ok. I blame the Guinness World Record breaking combine harvesters for leaving the road covered in sh1t! Charity is no excuse for ruining my cycle race!

Didn't you crash on that same corner a few days earlier in another race?

Beasty

Raam wrote: »

Didn't you crash on that same corner a few days earlier in another race?

Maybe he took a knock to the head - he perhaps now only remembers the ones he can try and blame someone else for

Lusk Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

I seem to remember seeing your bike in a ditch on the way up the Nags Head last year - from what I can recall you were not attached to it at the time ...

... I'm sure you're going to say it was someone else's fault mind

That was not a crash. The thought of leaving my minute man behind and at the same time being caught by the lad a minute behind me was enough to make me stop and get sick.

Raam wrote: »

Didn't you crash on that same corner a few days earlier in another race?

Nope. I went partially into the ditch but didn't crash / fall over / what ever! I remained upright. Therefore not a crash.

Now, speaking of crashes. Care to share with the world the day you decided to take a swim with your bike off the drainage pipe on Portmarnock beach?

Beasty

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

That was not a crash. The thought of leaving my minute man behind and at the same time being caught by the lad a minute behind me was enough to make me stop and get sick.

Fortunately my memory seems a little less selective than yours

Dermot Illogical

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

2. Kennyb3 and the artist formally known as RT66 (as he was known then) sandwiched me in Malahide last year after a late jam on the brakes at the lights. Husrt like hell and bent my handlebars. Possibly my fault to an extent but mostly theirs!

Yes, mostly ours. We mustn't stop at red lights.

Lusk Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

Fortunately my memory seems a little less selective than yours

I wasn't actually involved in that crash pal. It happened in front of me and I stopped and helped the lad in the ditch out.

I have some pie here for you. It tastes like humble and has your name on it!

Edit: I actually never got off the bike then. I still had a leg either side of it.

lennymc

I had a near miss on Wednesday. It was most definately George Samaras' (celtic footballist) fault, he fell over in the penalty box, and a penalty was awarded. I nearly fell off the turbo. Seriously.

doozerie

I've had very few significant (in the sense of being hurt) crashes, but some of the notable ones are:

* In my early teens, cycling to school in the wet. Big puddle ahead. Tried to keep out but Mr Van Man behind me was not leaving room or slowing up so I went straight on through the puddle. Front wheel hit a submerged pothole, bike stopped dead, I put right leg down to avoid toppling over, van's front bumper gave a glancing blow to the side of my calf as it continued past at speed. Could have been very nasty but got away with just a bruise. Van driver at fault I reckon, driving aggressively.

* In my early teens, cycling home from school into a headwind. While standing on the pedals and swinging from the handlebars I discovered I couldn't fight the urge to scratch my face with my hand. The rest of my body continued acting as if both hands were on the bars. Cue a head plant, and slight slide, on the tarmac. When I stood up, something was dangling in front of one eye. I brushed it away and half of my eyebrow fell to the ground. How curious, I recall thinking.

Spent a few hours in A&E being repeatedly bombarded with the question "Did you lose consciousness?". How should I know, the lack of consciousness would have made me largely unaware I tried in vain to say. No helmet, yet I survived, surely that patch of road should have been declared a site of religious significance by now! Entirely my own fault, but given the clear religious dimension I'm going to say that the devil made me do it so it was the devil's fault.

* Early teens, having an impromptu bike race with a friend. He raced down one side-street, I chose another. Cars parked on both sides of a narrow street, van driving towards me. There was space for me to squeeze between the oncoming van and the parked cars I reckoned, there was a race at stake after all. And indeed there was space, until a parked car on the left pulled out. His front bumper clipped my pedal, and in successfully managing to control the bike to avoid piling into the van I pretty much committed myself to hitting the deck at speed. I slid quite a distance on my right shoulder, my bulky parka coat bearing up well to the tarmac. I came through mostly unscathed, my right quill pedal didn't though, the cage was ripped apart. They were new pedals too, spent the rest of their short life badly put back together with strips of wire and solder. Crash was my fault, but ably assisted by the driver of the "parked" car.

* Many years ago, during an, er, "extended" lunch break from work I went with a couple of friends to a nearby gravel-covered BMX track, we were on MTB's. There were two bumps/ramps in quick succession. One friend ramped off the first and just about cleared the second, landing well. During my run-up I had an odd feeling that something was missing. Once in the air I realized what it was - momentum. Landed on top of the second bump on a hardtail bike with solid forks, not a happy mix. Slid along the gravel mostly on one elbow. The cut looked worse than it was, bits of hanging skin have that effect. Convinced myself that I wasn't at all conspicuous as I crept back very late into work with a big makeshift blood-stained bandage around my arm. Entirely my own fault but momentum could have pulled its weight a bit more. Curse you momentum! Not a fan of BMX tracks since.

* Many years ago, on my MTB, I reckoned that the short steep slope dropping from one road down to another road was rideable. It wasn't. Over the bars and landed on my head, just got a cut on my face which later attracted the attention of some good looking local girls. In response to their concerned questions I said "Ah no sure, I'm fine", so they walked off. Having already knocked "competent mountain-biker" off my career prospects it seemed I'd just knocked "successful Casanova" off too. Damn. Entirely my own fault, on both counts.

* Commuting to work on bike, was cut up by a motorist who veered into the bus lane in front of me. He got aggressive when I gestured at him. Drama ensued. From a stopped position he apparently "stalled" his car, causing it to lurch forward the couple of metres to where I stood. Twice. The first time knocked my bike over, the second time snapped the rear "unbreakable" mudguard and hit my shin. Another centimetre or so of forward movement and it would have snapped my leg. Gardai saw his side of it, which was a harsh lesson in the importance of witnesses when things get formal. I could have avoided the escalating altercation by just sucking up the aggression of the driver at the start and walking/cycling away, but responsibility for the acts of vindictive and dangerous driving rest entirely with him. It was a stupid situation made worse by pure aggression.

* This year, club league race. Coming in the last couple of km's with a large group, trailing behind a breakaway group all the placings were already gone. On a narrow road, some of our group were completely over to the other side of the road for reasons best known to themselves. A car coming the other way slowed to a stop, the riders out there pushed to get back into the group, the entire group pushed towards the ditch. I was on in the inside, and face with a choice of riding into the ditch or the rider who had pulled across in front of me, I chose the ditch. I provided a bony landing for a rider behind me but I got off within nothing more than scratches. So on that thankfully rare occasion where I got taken out of it, the culprit/cause was cyclists (those that put everyone else at risk by choosing to ride on the wrong side of the road). *Sigh*

buffalo

doozerie wrote: »

From a stopped position he apparently "stalled" his car, causing it to lurch forward the couple of metres to where I stood.

I did that in a car before. During my driving test. While the tester was standing in front of it. He was luckier than you though, no bike to hit.

Clearly so, the bike was at fault in your case!

doozerie

I did that in a car before. During my driving test. While the tester was standing in front of it. He was luckier than you though, no bike to hit.

I'll bet you didn't start to get out of the car and verbally and physically threaten the tester before getting back in, gunning the engine, and making the car lurch at him though. You may need to work on your assertive aggressiveness, or your aggressive assertiveness (maybe both, just to be on the safe side).

Mind you, you could have just stampeded him though, you didn't need the car. Buffalos are intimidating, even in a herd of 1.

Lusk Doyle

doozerie wrote: »

I'll bet you didn't start to get out of the car and verbally and physically threaten the tester before getting back in, gunning the engine, and making the car lurch at him though. You may need to work on your assertive aggressiveness, or your aggressive assertiveness (maybe both, just to be on the safe side).

Mind you, you could have just stampeded him though, you didn't need the car. Buffalos are intimidating, even in a herd of 1.

Someone was[n't] paying attention in school that day!