Air travel rights w.r.t. cancellations on US->US leg of IE->US flight

spiderbaby2000

Hi all,

I have a few questions about consumer air travel rights which I hope you can answer.

I booked return flights via the Aer Lingus website from the US to Ireland in early May with a short stopover both ways in Chicago. Ten days ago, five months after the flight was booked, the second leg of my return flight (Chicago to my final US destination) was not only cancelled but rearranged impossibly so that I was meant to leave Chicago eight hours before arrival from Ireland. Incidentally, the email to inform me of the cancellation was titled 'Select Seats'. Great, so I had to spend 30 minutes sorting this out between calling United and then Aer Lingus at which point I was informed that my new return flight would now land just over 2 hours later than originally scheduled, getting me in for 10pm.

Do I have any right to demand flights which would get me in at my original time? I am unsure whether Regulation 261/2004 applies here as the cancelled flight was from my US stopover to my final US destination. There is a second airport nearby to my US destination which is a train and taxi ride (or <$100 taxi fare) from my apartment. Do I have any right to ask them for a flight to that airport and to cover my fare if a suitable flight exists? If it is not possible to get a better flight, do I have the right to ask for meals and refreshments in proportion to the waiting time?

In any case, this was a shambles. Aer Lingus messed up rerouting my flights ten days ago which caused me some headache and now I'll miss the NYE festivities which was the whole point for flying in early on that date. They have not responded to my customer support email (I was firm but polite) after one week.

Any help is appreciated,
SB

slimjimmc

http://www.eccireland.ie/topic.php?topic=1#subtopic_44

You should be ok for re-routing or a refund of that portion of the journey but I don't think they have to provide meals/refreshments since the cancellation occurred in advance of you arriving at the airport. There's no obligation to get you to your destination on time, just "at the earliest opportunity".

Regulation [EC] No. 261/2004 stipulates that in the event of a flight cancellation you should be given a choice between rerouting to your final destination or a refund for the part, or parts, of the journey cancelled or not completed due to the cancellation.

If you choose rerouting instead of a refund, the air carrier should offer you an alternative flight to your final destination at the earliest opportunity, or at a later date of your choice subject to the availability of seats. If the air carrier offers you a flight to an alternative airport in the region, the air carrier must bear the cost of transferring you from that alternative airport to the one in your reservation or to another close-by destination agreed with you.

spiderbaby2000

slimjimmc wrote: »

http://www.eccireland.ie/topic.php?topic=1#subtopic_44

You should be ok for re-routing or a refund of that portion of the journey but I don't think they have to provide meals/refreshments since the cancellation occurred in advance of you arriving at the airport. There's no obligation to get you to your destination on time, just "at the earliest opportunity".

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, a refund is useless at this late stage as it would not cover another connection. Pity about the refreshments - it'll be a long day. It appears that the earliest opportunity is getting me in late - there is a connecting flight from Chicago but the stopover time is 1hr 17m which I am told is invalid as ORD international-to-domestic stopovers require a full 90 minutes. Knowing my luck, the first flight will land 13 minutes early.

AL used to have better service in general as well as direct flights for my destination before they were sold out. I miss our national airline.

Carawaystick

You are complaining about a 2 hour delay on a flight to America?
I've been delayed longer on internal flights ffs.

spiderbaby2000

Carawaystick wrote: »

You are complaining about a 2 hour delay on a flight to America?
I've been delayed longer on internal flights ffs.

I am complaining about a short-notice cancellation on a flight I booked months ago which created a two hour delay on New Years Eve. I had made plans for that night which are now ruined. I did not think it was necessary to state that in the original post because, you know, common sense.

ffs

Cookie_Monster

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=905

aviaton and aircraft may be a better suited forum to get an amswer, plenty of airline people post there

LXFlyer

spiderbaby2000 wrote: »

I am complaining about a short-notice cancellation on a flight I booked months ago which created a two hour delay on New Years Eve. I had made plans for that night which are now ruined. I did not think it was necessary to state that in the original post because, you know, common sense.

ffs

Airlines regularly change schedules and rebook customers. Whether you booked something months ago or not is irrelevant.

Quin_Dub

spiderbaby2000 wrote: »

there is a connecting flight from Chicago but the stopover time is 1hr 17m which I am told is invalid as ORD international-to-domestic stopovers require a full 90 minutes

You should be fine - With Customs/Immigration pre-clearance in place now that time frame is no issue whatever..

I use a connecting flight in Newark that's a 35 minute stop-over and I have time to stop and buy a burger and fries in Wendys on the way

Even with the train journey in ORD it's loads of time now...

spiderbaby2000

lxflyer wrote: »

Airlines regularly change schedules and rebook customers. Whether you booked something months ago or not is irrelevant.

Relevance is highly subjective. Also, Aer Lingus made two blunders with the change in flights which is not encouraging for such a regular occurrence. And none of this is helpful.

spiderbaby2000

Thanks, Cookie_Monster. I've gotten some good replies here but that was probably the right forum to post this.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

You should be fine - With Customs/Immigration pre-clearance in place now that time frame is no issue whatever..

I use a connecting flight in Newark that's a 35 minute stop-over and I have time to stop and buy a burger and fries in Wendys on the way

Even with the train journey in ORD it's loads of time now...

See, that's what I would have thought. The US->Ireland trip via ORD can be painful with the long security line and the awful gates but I usually coast through the airport in the Ireland->US direction - you've gone through security in Ireland, your bags are checked through for you, and you get to use that Rhapsody In Blue rainbow walkatron. It never takes me long to go from the international terminal to any of the domestics. Still, if Aer Lingus has strict policies then I wasn't going to complain to the poor rep on the phone. Maybe the 90 minutes is to make sure the baggage is transferred or just to allow some buffer for delays. I just wish that they would take the risk and book me a seat on the earlier flight with a fallback to the later one. That would be good customer service. Guess I'll go bark at another tree instead.

Cheers for the replies.

steve-o

OP, in this sort of case I always do the research up front, find the flight I want and then phone. If you make it easy for them by knowing exactly what you want then they will usually help.

First, see if either Aer Lingus or United are selling the connection that you want on their websites (search by schedule on the United site to get all options). If they are then it's a legal connection (use that phrase when talking to them). If not, then they won't book it for you.

Next, see if there's another connecting option on Aer Lingus, via Boston or JFK (on United or Jet Blue) that gets you in when you want.

If you find something that suits, phone and ask can they rebook you. Explain this is the result of "involuntary change" if you meet resistance. Explain that the late arrival time is a big issue for you.

If your plans are are flexible enough to travel the previous day they might also be willing to accommodate that.

If you choose to travel to another destination airport I doubt they will cover taxi/train.

spiderbaby2000

steve-o wrote: »

OP, in this sort of case I always do the research up front, find the flight I want and then phone. If you make it easy for them by knowing exactly what you want then they will usually help.

I agree. I did this on my second phone call, when I found the too-early connecting flight from Chicago.

steve-o wrote: »

First, see if either Aer Lingus or United are selling the connection that you want on their websites (search by schedule on the United site to get all options). If they are then it's a legal connection (use that phrase when talking to them). If not, then they won't book it for you.

Unfortunately, this does not work if the first leg is sold out and the desired second leg connection is available. You can only search for the second leg flight and as such the websites will not inform you if the flight is valid (unless the United 'search by schedule' considers this?).

steve-o wrote: »

Next, see if there's another connecting option on Aer Lingus, via Boston or JFK (on United or Jet Blue) that gets you in when you want.

There are no flights on the Aer Lingus website. There are flights from United via Newark but my guess is that I cannot book these since my booking was made through Aer Lingus and these flights may be solely United or else with a different partner.

steve-o wrote: »

If you find something that suits, phone and ask can they rebook you. Explain this is the result of "involuntary change" if you meet resistance. Explain that the late arrival time is a big issue for you.

Done. All I got was sympathy.

steve-o wrote: »

If your plans are are flexible enough to travel the previous day they might also be willing to accommodate that.

Yes, Aer Lingus were willing to do this but I have a family engagement that day.

steve-o wrote: »

If you choose to travel to another destination airport I doubt they will cover taxi/train.

Maybe. This could be up to the discretion of the airline. According to wikipedia (I know), Regulation 261/2004 states that:
"If a passenger's destination is an airport at a city with multiple airports and rerouting results in the passenger being taken to another of those airports, the airline must also pay for transport for the passenger to the original intended airport or an agreed nearby destination."

There is another airport in an adjacent city with good, fast public transport to my destination city. A train ticket plus taxi fare to my apartment would be cheaper than taxi fare from the airport into my destination city and the flights, when available, are usually much cheaper. It would be cheaper overall for the airline but given the wording above, up to their discretion.

LXFlyer

OP I wasn't trying to be smart in my reply. In my long experience of flying (usually 40-50 flights a year) I've found that airlines do change flights surprisingly regularly, and like you I've had to contact them and change the rebookings that they've made on occasion. Whether you book months ago or not is irrelevant - flights can and do change.

As others suggest the best thing you can do is research the alternatives from the web and present them with what YOU want rather than what they suggest.

Make the point that you've got plans and it is up to them to get you home in time. Be polite but firm.

I generally find that works. The only problem you may have is that flights may be full due to the holidays.

spiderbaby2000

lxflyer wrote: »

OP I wasn't trying to be smart in my reply. In my long experience of flying (usually 40-50 flights a year) I've found that airlines do change flights surprisingly regularly, and like you I've had to contact them and change the rebookings that they've made on occasion. Whether you book months ago or not is irrelevant - flights can and do change.

As others suggest the best thing you can do is research the alternatives from the web and present them with what YOU want rather than what they suggest.

Make the point that you've got plans and it is up to them to get you home in time. Be polite but firm.

I generally find that works. The only problem you may have is that flights may be full due to the holidays.

Thanks for the reply, lxflyer. There seems to be no alternatives from Aer Lingus so they cannot help me. As said above, United have flights which would get me in on time. However, they were a partner on my booking and not the primary airline so I do not think I have any leverage with them.

In future, I might consider booking with United directly if that is an option since they have more available routes thanks to their large number of US domestic routes.

40-50 flights a year? That is quite a lot of experience!

LXFlyer

Well the record remains at 72!

steve-o

spiderbaby2000 wrote: »

Unfortunately, this does not work if the first leg is sold out and the desired second leg connection is available. You can only search for the second leg flight and as such the websites will not inform you if the flight is valid (unless the United 'search by schedule' considers this?).

I don't know your destination, but it took me all of 3 minutes on united.com to find a flight from Dublin to a random destination in the midwest (Kansas City), connecting from the Aer Lingus Chicago flight on December 31, with a 1 hour connection. You should be able to do the same for your destination, and then get back onto Aer Lingus armed with that information.

spiderbaby2000

steve-o wrote: »

I don't know your destination, but it took me all of 3 minutes on united.com to find a flight from Dublin to a random destination in the midwest (Kansas City), connecting from the Aer Lingus Chicago flight on December 31, with a 1 hour connection. You should be able to do the same for your destination, and then get back onto Aer Lingus armed with that information.

As I mentioned above, I was able to find a United flight to get me all the way (and even in earlier). However, my booking was with Aer Lingus who happen to partner with United for US domestic flights so I assumed that I would not be able to ask Aer Lingus to put me on United flights all the way. Is my assumption wrong?

Edit: Sorry, I didn't read your post correctly. No, there are no connecting United flights from Chicago with at least a 90 minute connection time (Aer Lingus's minimum connection time for this trip) which would connect with Aer Lingus flight to Chicago to my destination.