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Lecturer Accountability

  • 04-12-2012 12:30pm
    #1
    Site Banned Posts: 60 ✭✭


    Do you think lecturers should be held accountable for the success or failure of their students? Not that I am in fear of failing it's just that when I was doing my leaving cert a new teacher started and the principle told us how great a teacher he was by the track record his students had in acquiring A1s and the like. He turned out to be a good teacher. I'm just wondering whether this is the case in university aswel.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    For a start, the Leaving Cert is a standard exam whereas university curriculums whatever the plural is are not standard.

    Some professors will hand out 2.1s like confetti, or if i remember rightly, because they fancy the hole off particular students. So the score wouldnt mean much. others will be be more disciplined.

    So i wouldnt say you could really do that unfortunately.


  • Site Banned Posts: 60 ✭✭Prima Nocte


    So it's the department professor who decides what grade you get?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭Kinski


    No. Whoever marked your work decides what grade you get, but all grades are subject to review by external examiners. In practice, I don't think they actually review every paper (they could be dealing with a large department with hundreds of students); AFAIK, all firsts and all fails are reviewed, alongside a representative sample of work from the middle grades. Externs can change marks if necessary.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,487 ✭✭✭banquo


    There was talk of this during the year gone with the idea that students would be able to rate their lecturers as a group.

    "Some resistance was met."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭WanabeOlympian


    Lecturers usually, but not all, see teaching as something on the side. They're usually more concerned with their own research/ books/ conferences etc.. than lectures because to get promotion they need a lot of new research published. Sad but true. Not to say some lecturers really put an effort in teaching part too and helping everyone.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭mickstupp


    I've only had experience of less than 20 lecturers. Based on that, and the students I've met over the last four years, I would say no, I don't think lecturers should be held accountable for the success or failure of individual students. Basically, this is not school. We're responsible for our own learning. If a lecturer's utter crap, and I've had this a few times, there's a library with books and an internet full of a million and one forums with people who can help or point you in the right direction.

    However, if the entire class is affected by the actions/inaction of one lecturer... perhaps in the sort of situation where the whole class gets a very uncharacteristic drop of 20% (or whatever number) in their marks, then yes, questions should be asked and answers received. In that case, sure, there should be some accountability. But not based on the success/failure of individuals.

    As for rating them. I don't see that as a problem. Don't see why it doesn't happen already. Department I'm in has anonymous online surveys about each module. Wonderful. The departments should have some feedback from students about both the content and the lecturers, and better still if it's anonymous in my opinion. We've all met unprofessional types who'd hold your opinion against you. I've been afraid to fill out feedback sheets because my handwriting is so recognisable. Online, anonymous feedback is fine by me. Rate away. Should also show relatively quickly whether issues with a lecturer are personal or widespread.

    Ultimately though... our learning, our responsibility.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,416 ✭✭✭Jimmy Iovine


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    For a start, the Leaving Cert is a standard exam whereas university curriculums whatever the plural is are not standard.

    It's curricula.

    Some form of accountability would be a good idea.

    A few lecturers don't give a toss if you pass or do well. Others really push you and invest time. A balance between the two would be very beneficial.


  • Site Banned Posts: 60 ✭✭Prima Nocte


    So what's a lecturers contractual obligations if accountability is not one?


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 11,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭lordgoat


    So what's a lecturers contractual obligations if accountability is not one?

    I can tell you that it's not to babysit students.

    Lecturers generally work far from than the hours you see them.

    Go to your lectures. If you have a problem talk to the lecturer in question. Ask him/her for extra reading. If you find they are still being unhelpful (i'd be amazed if any lecturer at this point didn't try to help) then bring it further.


    Are students held accountable for not going to lectures? Should they be?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 519 ✭✭✭CSSE09


    lordgoat wrote: »
    I can tell you that it's not to babysit students.

    Lecturers generally work far from than the hours you see them.

    Go to your lectures. If you have a problem talk to the lecturer in question. Ask him/her for extra reading. If you find they are still being unhelpful (i'd be amazed if any lecturer at this point didn't try to help) then bring it further.


    Are students held accountable for not going to lectures? Should they be?

    They should be in my opinion, a lecturer I had a few years back tracked attendance, if you were out for more than 25% of all lectures your CA would be effected if you didn't have a med cert.

    In my own experience as well there have been a few lecturers that were approached multiple times, in some cases the entire class would approach them and no help was given. Like everything in life there's bad students and bad lecturers but there should be some accountability, there's also a big difference between knowing your stuff and being able to teach it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭mickstupp


    lordgoat wrote: »
    Are students held accountable for not going to lectures? Should they be?
    Years ago I went to Dundalk, when it was still a tech, or an IT or whatever the hell. Anyway, people on grants had to sign in once in the morning and once in the afternoon. If they missed a bunch of classes they started getting their grants docked. Now... maybe I'm imagining that due to being sloshed most of the time back then... or maybe they were misunderstanding and thought they'd have their grants docked... but either way I think it's a good idea, personally.

    I also think if you skip a load of classes you shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to borderline marks, 49/59/69.

    I think it's the History department (maybe? possibly others too?) where if you miss something like 50% of your tutorials you fail the module. I like that idea too.

    Clearly I'm an intolerant sort...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87 ✭✭purebeta


    Ah heyor, 69 and not a first is just cruel!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,487 ✭✭✭banquo


    mickstupp wrote: »
    Years ago I went to Dundalk, when it was still a tech, or an IT or whatever the hell. Anyway, people on grants had to sign in once in the morning and once in the afternoon. If they missed a bunch of classes they started getting their grants docked. Now... maybe I'm imagining that due to being sloshed most of the time back then... or maybe they were misunderstanding and thought they'd have their grants docked... but either way I think it's a good idea, personally.

    That is criminal. People who needed a grant – me, for example – shouldn't be shamed publicly daily.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭mickstupp


    banquo wrote: »

    That is criminal. People who needed a grant – me, for example – shouldn't be shamed publicly daily.
    I phrased that badly, it was part of the normal taking attendance in each class. It wasn't that they lined up against the wall or anything.

    Actually now that I think of it, it didn't really help, since many people only showed up once in the morning and once in the afternoon, for the attendance. All the other classes were half empty.


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