Will Audi ever do F1?

KenSwee

I'd love to see Audi in F1.
They seem to have totally dominated the Prototype class over the last decade and I think it's strange that no manufacturer from the Volkswagen group is in F1. If the VW group were to go into F1, I think Audi would be their choice.

Anybody care to speculate if they ever will or why they haven't so far?
Also, if they did, do you think they would hit the ground running with their own team or buy into one like Sauber?

How competitive do you think they would be?
Better than Merc?

Dream team for me would be Vettel and Perez.

bbsrs

KenSwee wrote: »

I'd love to see Audi in F1.
They seem to have totally dominated the Prototype class over the last decade and I think it's strange that no manufacturer from the Volkswagen group is in F1. If the VW group were to go into F1, I think Audi would be their choice.

Anybody care to speculate if they ever will or why they haven't so far?
Also, if they did, do you think they would hit the ground running with their own team or buy into one like Sauber?

How competitive do you think they would be?
Better than Merc?

Dream team for me would be Vettel and Perez.

From ESPN ,

Audi motor racing chief Wolfgang Ullrich has reinforced the Volkswagen Group marque's decision to stay away from Formula One.
As a debate rages about F1's 2013 rules, it had been hoped that the turbo 4-cylinder formula would entice new manufacturers - like VW - onto the grid. But Ullrich told Car Magazine that Le Mans-style endurance racing is the better bet for Audi.

"There's a very good reason why we are not in F1," he said. "There's no relevance to the road. At Le Mans, one of our cars will cover 325 miles more than an F1 car will cover in an entire season, our average speed including pitstops will be 20mph higher than an F1 car and we will use 42% less fuel.

"You cannot argue with those figures."


http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/49493.html

Myrddin

Ugh, VAG...they're trying to make make F1 exciting, not bore people to death.


*runs for cover

iDave

I'd love it if they supplied 3 or 4 teams and branded them seperately as Audi, Bugatti, Lambo and Porsche for a complete w@nkfest of brands.

recyclebin

VW are entering the WRC next season. I can't seeing them joining F1 in the next 3 or 4 years anyway.

Dr Turk Turkelton

iDave wrote: »

I'd love it if they supplied 3 or 4 teams and branded them seperately as Audi, Bugatti, Lambo and Porsche for a complete w@nkfest of brands.

What about Skoda?
The way some lads in the motors forum talk about them they could put an Octavia on the starting grid and win an F1 race easily!

Grim.

With Volkswagen Audi Group entering Le Mans with two brands in 2014 (Audi running diesel flybrid and Porsche with petrol flybrid) with a combined budget of 250 million+, Add to that the amount of money they spend on GT racing and ofc the money pit that is the Ducati motogp team it's just not going to happen.

SniperSight

The transition for technology from Le Mans to ordinary road cars is much faster than F1. Most F1 tech ends up in highly expensive supercars, and takes ages to filter down. Most tech Audi brings to Le Mans is in their cars the following year, like Ultra: the lightweight bodies or full LED lights.

That said, I'd love to see it, but only if it didn't effect their endurance programme.

Max_Charger

Not surprised at that response from Ullrich. No doubt the man has incredibly knowable when it comes to motorsport but anytime he's interviewed he more often then not comes across as a pompous arsehole.

Grim.

Max_Charger wrote: »

often then not comes across as a pompous arsehole.

he's anything but. now Olivier Quesnel on the other hand...




Here is a good interview with Audi's head of engineering Ulrich Baretzky about this years R18 and the politics of top level Motorsport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TAhWdVU3M4

smellslikeshoes

Would need some motor racing budget to get into F1 while at the same time being a dominant force in prototypes.

Pissing away a massive amount of money in F1 also doesn't really guarantee any sort of success either, just look at the recent manufacturers who have had a foray into F1. Toyota and BMW both spent the guts of a decade trying to crack F1 and both left with their tails between their legs without any meaningful success. Mercedes took over Brawn GP who had just won the constructors championship and even with their experience of being an engine manufacturer since 94 have only come out with a handful of podiums and a single win.

Tea 1000

Audi could only be successful in F1 if they could just buy Newey and a bunch of his engineers.

ScumLord

bbsrs wrote: »

our average speed including pitstops will be 20mph higher than an F1 car and we will use 42% less fuel.

I wonder is that per KM and comparing diesel to petrol? I would have thought the F1 engine would be super efficient, it's pretty small even now, never mind next year. I don't know much about the engines they use in the prototypes.

I'm not surprised it takes F1 developments so long to filter into consumer cars, the tech is very expensive and cutting edge and there's just no need for it in normal cars until it becomes easier to manufacture the parts.

smellslikeshoes

Those figures would be heavily influenced by the unique nature of the Le Mans circuit, would be like comparing apples to oranges.

Tea 1000

It's comparing Apples to Oranges. An F1 engine revs to 18,000 rpm. The car weighs 600kgs with driver, but can generate more down-force than it's own weight. It isn't designed to barrel down a straight at 220mph, it's designed to corner at phenomenal speeds and be hyper-sensitive to all control inputs for ultra precision.

Rascasse

The fact that Le Mans prototypes have their wheels covered is a major advantage too. Open wheels are a nightmare for aerodynamics causing all kinds of problem with drag and turbulence - thats why teams are always fiddling with front wing endplates these days.

I'd be very surprised if they bothered with F1. Bar engine supply, none of their brands have any real F1 pedigree (Porsche a little maybe) and too big a risk of spending billions and not get anywhere (like Toyota).

Myrddin

Rascasse wrote: »

and too big a risk of spending billions and not get anywhere (like Toyota).

I'd say that has some bearing on it, as mentioned before in the thread...a bottomless pit of money doesn't guarantee you anything in F1. Plus, you'd run the risk of possibly tarnishing a brand maybe, if it failed in F1 endeavors?

Tea 1000

EnterNow wrote: »

I'd say that has some bearing on it, as mentioned before in the thread...a bottomless pit of money doesn't guarantee you anything in F1. Plus, you'd run the risk of possibly tarnishing a brand maybe, if it failed in F1 endeavors?

Yep, they have more to loose than gain really. If you can't get your hands on the best handful of guys in the paddock or find the new genius of F1, then you don't have much hope of being any more than an also-ran.

Grim.

In terms of the drive train etc i don't believe they would have any problems building a very competitive package, Ulrich Baretzky and his team are just to good at what they do for it not to be.

It's the Aero package where they would suffer imo it's an area they have always struggled and lost out to their main rivals Peugeot and now Toyota.

afatbollix

Feck the F1 They should go back Rallying...


Its what made the brand. I know VW are entering but Audi should of entered in the A1

ratedR

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I think Audi are missing the boat here, if you ask you average Joe on the street have they heard of Leman`s they might know something about it. However most people would know what Formula one is. Its all about brand recognition and F1 helps enormously with that.

Very true. However I'm doubting that the farmers, scobes and new breed of boyracers that actually buy Audis have any interest in either F1 or Le Mans.

*ducks for cover*

challengemaster

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I think Audi are missing the boat here, if you ask you average Joe on the street have they heard of Leman`s they might know something about it. However most people would know what Formula one is. Its all about brand recognition and F1 helps enormously with that.

I don't really agree tbh.

Ask most people on the street, they'll have heard of Audi, and a fair portion will even own one. They probably won't have a clue about Sauber, Williams, Force India, Caterham, etc..

Audi is big enough and has plenty of brand recognition already. General advertising does more for them in that department than F1 ever could tbh.

Unless I'm picking you up wrong, I can't see any boat to be missed.

KenSwee

Some good points here.

My personal opinion is that if you are serious about motorsports and and want to sell cars in connection with that, then you must do F1.
It's the biggest motorsport category by a long shot and it's getting bigger every year. When I started watching F1 back in the 80s, it was predominately a European series but now it's in places I never imagined it could be and with that comes massive exposure and new markets. All good for successful entrants.

You have all your Le Mans victory, 1980's rally history and dominance in DTM but if you aren't in F1, then most people won't know about your accomplishments.

Don't get me wrong, I am a sportscar fan first and foremost but I personally believe Audi have done it so many times now, it's getting boring. They ain't no Ferrari so staying in sportscars does nothing for their pedigree in the long run.

If they are serious, then they should do it and stop hiding behind statistics. Just because BMW, Honda and Toyota made a balls of it, doesn't mean that will be the same for Audi.

Tea 1000

KenSwee wrote: »

If they are serious, then they should do it and stop hiding behind statistics. Just because BMW, Honda and Toyota made a balls of it, doesn't mean that will be the same for Audi.

Honda had lots of success in F1. The BAR agreement was their downfall. But Audi would have no more luck than the others unless they bag a genius.

Frank Bullitt

I don't see them in F1, at least not under the Audi name, don't they own VW, Bugatti and Lamborghini? If they were to enter it might be under one of them?

They are quite handy around Le Mans and they were lucky that the Toyota entry was half competitive, otherwise the race would have been a disaster.

I really don't think F1 fits with the Audi ethos they have going, its more of a calculated performance that they can showcase with Le Mans, and they wouldn't be able to do that with F1.

Tea 1000

Gintonious wrote: »

I don't see them in F1, at least not under the Audi name, don't they own VW, Bugatti and Lamborghini? If they were to enter it might be under one of them?

They are quite handy around Le Mans and they were lucky that the Toyota entry was half competitive, otherwise the race would have been a disaster.

I really don't think F1 fits with the Audi ethos they have going, its more of a calculated performance that they can showcase with Le Mans, and they wouldn't be able to do that with F1.

VW own Audi, not the other way around. Bugatti is owned by the VW group too, and engineered completely by them. Lambourghini is actually owned by Audi rather than directly by VW, but Lambourghini is still an Italian company with the main say in what they do and engineer, where Audi executives lend a hand rather than take over. Audi bought Ducatti recently also.

rizzodun

I think its more to do with selling cars with Audi. Audi and Peugeot both stated multiple times that their new generation diesel engines were direct descendants from their LMP Le Mans race cars. During the head to head battles between the two companies over the years, even though the Peugeot was much faster, Audi beat them on the track through superior fuel efficiency, a statement that was pushed through when selling their road cars.

It's much harder to match technology in F1 cars down to normal road cars, this is why Audi will never take that path IMO.

The exact thing happened in the 90's with Subaru and Mitsubishi, both using their WRC success to sell comparable road cars.

Tea 1000

rizzodun wrote: »

The exact thing happened in the 90's with Subaru and Mitsubishi, both using their WRC success to sell comparable road cars.

I think Citroen missed out on that. They should have had a Loeb edition C4, and I'm not talking about that piece of dung that they just lobbed a few stickers on. A proper STI or Evo matching car. It's brand recognition that sells cars. They wouldn't have made money on that model, it's the profile awareness that you gain from that which makes the money.

rizzodun

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I think Citroen missed out on that. They should have had a Loeb edition C4, and I'm not talking about that piece of dung that they just lobbed a few stickers on. A proper STI or Evo matching car. It's brand recognition that sells cars. They wouldn't have made money on that model, it's the profile awareness that you gain from that which makes the money.

I agree, it didn't help them that the base C4 looked pretty dull too, but at least you can look at those cars and make a connection to the race versions, you'll never see that with an F1 car, so even if a car maker stamps their name all over the F1 car, it's very hard to convince people that tech made it to their road car.

ScumLord

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I think Citroen missed out on that. They should have had a Loeb edition C4, and I'm not talking about that piece of dung that they just lobbed a few stickers on.

The C4 van was the best version of that car. Fast and light, the car version was a complete pig of a yolk to drive. All style no substance.

kartincolin

Le Mans may offer more scope for innovation with it`s technical regulations and may have more relevance to their road going counterparts, but Formula 1 has the best drivers, in the fastest cars which offers the most brand exposure. Audi have considered the first statement to be more important than the latter.

In a way I`m glad that Audi commit such a huge budget effort to Le Mans every year as it is one of the most prestigious races of them all and deserves to have so much more Manufacturers participating in the LMP1 category then it does. With Porsche committing to runnig a full factory assault in 2014, I can`t see Audi leaving any time soon.