Are Luas chimes, pedestrian crossing beeps etc. copyrighted?

face1990

A bit of an odd question:
Basically I wanted to use a selection of sounds from around Dublin to make an audio-visual piece.
However I'm wondering if there's potential copyright problem with this.

The Luas chime, for instance. Is this a copyrighted sound, or can it be freely used for any purpose? And how would I go about finding out? Would it be owned by the Luas operator, or the manufacturer of the trams?

Similarly the noise that pedestrian crossing buttons make. Would that be owned by anyone?

One last example; the "luggage doors operating" warning that anyone who's used Bus Eireann would know. I would tend to think that's more likely to be copyrighted although I'm not sure why I think so.

Thanks in advance for any help!

RainyDay

I'm pretty sure that you can photograph or film anything in a public place without restriction.

face1990

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that you can photograph or film anything in a public place without restriction.

Yes, but if you were to (for instance) film or record a busker performing a copyrighted song, the original copyright would still apply even if you recorded it in a public place.

What I mean is that if those sounds are copyrighted at all then any use of them would be restricted, regardless of when or where I were to record them.
What I'm wondering is whether they are copyrighted, or how I could go about finding out.

Thank you for your reply though!

Reloc8

Well, a sound recording has copyright pursuant to the Copyright and Related Rights Act 2000. From memory, you can use sound recordings if you pay a fee to the licensing authority.

You could perhaps ask these people what they think http://www.patentsoffice.ie/en/about_background.

Carawaystick

I remember talking to someone form Nottingham, I think they've trams there too. He said the bell on the trams was supposed to represent some church bell from the green & pleasant land
I'd say the tram bell is a recording & a public performance

I'd say the beeping of traffic lights is not a recording, it's a sound generated for each beep. Is it a work worthy of copyright? I doubt it.

68Murph68

face1990 wrote: »

A bit of an odd question:
Basically I wanted to use a selection of sounds from around Dublin to make an audio-visual piece.
However I'm wondering if there's potential copyright problem with this.

The Luas chime, for instance. Is this a copyrighted sound, or can it be freely used for any purpose? And how would I go about finding out? Would it be owned by the Luas operator, or the manufacturer of the trams?

Similarly the noise that pedestrian crossing buttons make. Would that be owned by anyone?

One last example; the "luggage doors operating" warning that anyone who's used Bus Eireann would know. I would tend to think that's more likely to be copyrighted although I'm not sure why I think so.

Thanks in advance for any help!

I think you may be better off just going ahead and completing the audio-visual piece especially if the underlying motive is artistic as opposed to commercial.

If it were basically an artistic piece as opposed to a commercial project I would think that all of the copyright holders would more than likely turn-a-blind-eye to any possible copyright infringement on the basis of negative PR/looking mean and petty/ not being worth their while.

If it was the case that it was for a primarily commercial project that I would think that things would be wholly different . In this case I'd say seek legal advice from the outset. If this was the case I would imagine that one possible solution is to adopt a sound-a-like approach i.e don't use the actual sounds but recreate the sounds as close as possible.

Approaching the possible owners would simply open up a potential legal hornet's nest and I would see is unlikely to be successful. If you approach Bus Eireann say for example they will be pretty much legally obligated to get in touch with their lawyers who will charge Bus Eireann for their legal advice/knowledge. Management in Bus Eireann will probably end up pissed off that they are stuck for "needless" legal fees and extra work and are extremely unlikely to view things favourably.