Mess Issue with Landlord

Princess_Bleuh

I've encountered an issue in my rented accomodation.
I've been living in an apartment with one other person since April, and have a tenancy agreement. I do my share in ensuring the main living areas are always tidy and clean, but I'm messy by nature, and my own room and bathroom generally are untidy. Not dirty, but untidy. I've been unaware of any issue at all until very recently. On Friday last, my housemate asked me to clean the bathroom, as it was embarrassing when she had guests over. I said I would, and that was that.


My understanding, was that I had sole use of the bathroom, as she has her own ensuite. Nothing ever made me question that was the case, she's occasionally asked me if she can use it to have a bath, and she's never cleaned it while doing the rest of the apartment. I can honestly say that if I'd any idea that other people would be in it, I'd keep it as spotless as the other living areas. I was a little upset at the thought that this was only being mentioned as an issue now, and hasn't come up before in all the time I've lived here! Anyway, I digress.

I gave the bathroom a quick once over on Saturday morning before work, and wasn't home until late last night. When I got home, the door was wide open, and the bathroom was spotless, had been completely scrubbed. Anything I had hanging on the rack was on top of my wash baskets, and every single item in the bathroom, all my stuff, from the bath, and the counter (kept in baskets) had been stacked neatly in one corner of the room. I found this rather offputting, that I hadn't even had the chance to clean it thoroughly myself. This morning I received a message to say that the landlord (her sister) had been around and wasn't impressed by the state of the apartment, and that she was looking for my email address. I received the email shortly afterwards, which very reasonably requested I sort the bathroom out. It also however made reference to my bedroom. Her concern is that my mess will cause damage.

I've responded to explain the misunderstanding, and that from now on, "The", not "My" bathroom will be spotless.
I've yet to face my housemate, and deal with whatever awkwardness that will bring. I'm absolutely mortified about the bathroom situation, and unfortunately all I can do now is ensure it's clean in the future. However, I'm very indignant about my bedroom, and feel it's a total invasion of privacy that she was even in there. Obviously I can't expect 24 hours notice everytime she visits her sister, but I think at the very least I should get the notice that she intends to be in my room.

I want to resolve this, as peacefully as possible without letting it get nasty, but I'm not really happy about it. Can anyone advise? What would people do in my position?

Thanks

odds_on

As you are sharing with the landlord's sister, I doubt if, in fact you actually have a tenancy agreement -
This is incorrect - see post #5.
it may say so on the lease agreement but it may not be correct.

I think you are actually a licensee or lodger, with very few rights and are not protected by the residential Tenancies Act 2004.

As regards the bathroom - if it is not an ensuite and can be termed as the "family bathroom" i,e, the bathroom used by visitors, then IMO, there is not a lot you can do. Most of the time it is "yours" but not always.

djimi

I think you need to establish boundaries with your landlord. As you say, seeing as how she is your flatmates sister its not reasonable to expect 24 hours notice for a visit, but likewise she needs to realise that the house is your home, she has no say in how it is kept provided the mess is not causing damage to the property (which is very unlikely unless you are leaving food/dirty dishes around the place and/or never clean), and that if she wants to inspect your room then she must give you notice and cannot just wander in whenever she feels like it. Its not a normal situation, so its up to all of you to come to an arrangement as to how to handle it.

With regards the bathroom, it sounds as if you were very unreasonable in your expectations. Where did you think guests and visitors were going to use? They were hardly going to assume that it was for your sole use and seek out the en suite. I think your flatmate has a right to be annoyed if it is kept in a state of constant mess and would be rightly embarassed if guests were to see it in such a state. You may have an agreement between you that you each have your own bathroom, but such an arrangement will go out the window when there are guests over.

How you keep your own bedroom is entirely your own business (within reason, ie its not causing damage/a health hazard) provided you keep the door closed so noone else has to see the mess.

StillWaters

I disagree, you are not living with the LL, it is likely you have a standard lease. I don't think there is a lot you can do about the bathroom. It is shared, so your flatmate cleaning it was no different than her taking a figary to spring clean the kitchen.

I would be furious about the bedroom though. Your LL had no right to go in there without notifying you, and bar you having stacks of plates with crusty food which might attract vermin, I can't see why untidiness is her concern once the rent is paid.

odds_on

StillWaters wrote: »

I disagree, you are not living with the LL, it is likely you have a standard lease. I don't think there is a lot you can do about the bathroom. It is shared, so your flatmate cleaning it was no different than her taking a figary to spring clean the kitchen.

I would be furious about the bedroom though. Your LL had no right to go in there without notifying you, and bar you having stacks of plates with crusty food which might attract vermin, I can't see why untidiness is her concern once the rent is paid.

Yes, you are correct, StillWaters, the OP is a tenant. a sister does not count in the situation of a licensee, just landlord's spouse, child or parent qualify.

However, if the arrangement was directly with the sister and not the landlord, then the OP would be a licensee.

Princess_Bleuh

Thanks so much for the responses guys!

Odds_on, thanks for clarifying that, I was reading up today and wasn't entirely sure!
I'm not sure if my housemate has a lease agreement with the landlord, but I just signed a tenancy agreement!

Djimi, you are right, and it was really stupid on my part, that I didn't check this out at the start. I also had the main bathroom in my old apartment, and that was my own bathroom, for my own exclusive use, and any guests of my housemates knew to just trek through to their ensuites. I should have clarified this as soon as I moved in here! Another lesson learned the hard way.

StillWaters, I wouldn't even argue if that was the case! There's a wineglass with an inch of water in it on my locker, and then it's just my stuff all over the place. As messy bedrooms go, it's certainly not that bad!

Though, its enough to upset my housemate, so I'm gonna to blitz it as soon as possible, That said, from my earlier discussion with her she doesn't seem to think there's anything wrong with having been in my room. Which is definitely not ok with me.

the_syco

Princess_Bleuh wrote: »

It also however made reference to my bedroom. Her concern is that my mess will cause damage.

Inform your landlord that you are horrified that the she went through your possessions in your room (btw, is your room locked?), and that you'd like 24 hours notice in future to ensure you do not have anything personal in your room that she could see.

As for the bathroom, check your lease what it says about it. Often tenant with an ensuite is charged a bit more, but the tenant can still use the main bathroom.

Del2005

the_syco wrote: »

Inform your landlord that you are horrified that the she went through your possessions in your room (btw, is your room locked?), and that you'd like 24 hours notice in future to ensure you do not have anything personal in your room that she could see.

Can you lock internal apartment doors?

the_syco

Del2005 wrote: »

Can you lock internal apartment doors?

Depends on the door, but mostly yes, as not everyone will trust strangers not to borrow their stuff.

Icepick

landlord's sister just came in and went through your stuff?

sounds like trespassing to me

handlemaster

The Landlord should have given you notice of an inspection. I quick call to the Prtb should be in order see if the tenancy is registered. If the landlord isn't living there it should be registered. Also the landlord should have notified the revenue of payments . It sounds like your 'apartment' buddy is giving the instructions and its easier to get her sister to do the talking.

conorhal

Firstly OP, you're not 'messy by nature', you're lazy by choice.

Secondly, the bathroom is a common area. I've flatshared for years and have an en-suite, I don't direct guests to go through my room to use the bathroom.
If you behave like a pig your flatmate has every right to be embarrased to have friends use a common facility that looks like a scene out of Trainspotting, as embarrased as you should be to have sombody else clearing up your mess after you like your mother.
As for the comment about your room, there's no evidence your landlord entered the place, your flatmate could just as easily have said, 'and if you think her bathroom is bad....'
Clearly things have reached a tipping point for your flatmate, so stop moaning and get your act together and show some consideration for others.

ronan45

I am a landlord and a tenant recently asked me to repair his Satellite box. (aint been in his room in 16 months since he moved in as i have no cause to go into it. it looks like he is lieing directly on the mattress with just a quilt.
His room was filled with plates with hardened food bowels cups.
you name it. Multiple chipper bags fast food boxes. Pizza crust collection on top of the tv
The only bit of space on the floor is where the door swings open.Just clothes and dirt everywhere.
Black bags taped to the window. Worst thing was when i moved the sat box there were 2 yucky SILVERFISH . I am half thinking to suggest we have a cleaner do a clean up on the rooms, not sure if he will be too chuffed thou.
Do silverfish spread throughout the house?

djimi

I dont think it matters how chuffed he would be; what he is doing is a health hazard not only to himself but to others living in the house, and is also potentially damaging your property. You are perfectly well within your rights to have it sorted at his expense. Depending on the type of lease he has if he is a licensee I would be inclined to ask the filthy animal to find somewhere else to live.

otto_26

ronan45 wrote: »

I am a landlord and a tenant recently asked me to repair his Satellite box. (aint been in his room in 16 months since he moved in as i have no cause to go into it. it looks like he is lieing directly on the mattress with just a quilt.
His room was filled with plates with hardened food bowels cups.
you name it. Multiple chipper bags fast food boxes. Pizza crust collection on top of the tv
The only bit of space on the floor is where the door swings open.Just clothes and dirt everywhere.
Black bags taped to the window. Worst thing was when i moved the sat box there were 2 yucky SILVERFISH . I am half thinking to suggest we have a cleaner do a clean up on the rooms, not sure if he will be too chuffed thou.
Do silverfish spread throughout the house?

Why did tenant have to tape black bags to window?

goat2

op
the landlord sent you an email saying that they were not pleased with your bedroom,
the landlord has broken any agreement he/she had with you when he/she entered your bedroom without first consulting you. invasion.
they are to speak to you first before entering your bedroom,
now ask them why they entered your bedroom without first speaking to you. do all your correspondence vie email. so as to have print.
and look out for someplace that you will be left in private. you are not living with your mother, you are paying for your acommodation,
it is insulting to be treated like that, having your things moved around the bathroom, and not being able to leave things until you have time to do them, just because the family member of the owner is there, i would only rent out a place that is free of owner occupying, it feels the same if it were the owners sibling to me.

the_syco

otto_26 wrote: »

Why did tenant have to tape black bags to window?

I'm guessing he had flimsy curtains.

And I'm guessing the windows haven't been open, and with what he has described, I'd wonder if the silverfishes family would miss the two that the poster found :P

handlemaster

Reproduction and life cycle
A silverfish without its silvery scales, which are developed after its third moult

The reproduction of silverfish is preceded by a ritual involving three phases, which may last over half an hour. In the first phase, the male and female stand face to face, their trembling antennae touching, then repeatedly back off and return to this position. In the second phase the male runs away and the female chases him. In the third phase the male and female stand side by side and head-to-tail, with the male vibrating his tail against the female.[5] Finally the male lays a spermatophore, a sperm capsule covered in gossamer, which the female takes into her body via her ovipositor to fertilise the eggs.

The female lays groups of less than 60 eggs at once, deposited in small crevices.[6] The eggs are oval-shaped, whitish, about 0.8 millimetres (0.031 in) long,[7] and take between two weeks and two months to hatch. Silverfish usually lay fewer than 100 eggs in their lifetime.[8]

When the nymphs hatch, they are whitish in colour, and look like smaller adults. As they moult, young silverfish develop a greyish appearance and a metallic shine, eventually becoming adults after three months to three years.[6] They may go through 17 to 66 moults in their lifetime, sometimes 30 in a single year, which is much more than usual for an insect. Silverfish are among the few types of insect that continue to moult after reaching adulthood.[9]

The lifespan of a silverfish varies from two to eight years.[10]

otto_26

the_syco wrote: »

I'm guessing he had flimsy curtains.

And I'm guessing the windows haven't been open, and with what he has described, I'd wonder if the silverfishes family would miss the two that the poster found :P

I find it strange how landlords who get the cheapest curtains going are surprised people need to stick bags and not what on the windows to keep out the light.

I bet the landlords bedroom is dark on a bright morning, and it's like that because the landlord doesn't want to be woken up at 6am in the summer from the sun light filling up the room..

But then feels their tenants are fine with cheap curtains and are surprised and dumbfounded as to why anyone would stick something on the window to keep the sun light out??? :rolleyes:

StillWaters

otto_26 wrote: »

I find it strange how landlords who get the cheapest curtains going are surprised people need to stick bags and not what on the windows to keep out the light.

I bet the landlords bedroom is dark on a bright morning, and it's like that because the landlord doesn't want to be woken up at 6am in the summer from the sun light filling up the room..

But then feels their tenants are fine with cheap curtains and are surprised and dumbfounded as to why anyone would stick something on the window to keep the sun light out??? :rolleyes:

Hang on, the LL never stated what kind of curtains were on the windows, and it's clear from the state if the room that the tenant has issues of some sort.

otto_26

StillWaters wrote: »

Hang on, the LL never stated what kind of curtains were on the windows, and it's clear from the state if the room that the tenant has issues of some sort.

Hang on, I am talking about landlords in general.

djimi

Civilized people would buy better curtains, not stick black bags on the windows...

otto_26

djimi wrote: »

Civilized people would buy better curtains, not stick black bags on the windows...

Civilized owners of the house or civilized people?

djimi

Civilized tenants. Weve upgraded most of the curtains in our place; I really dont think its something that the landlord should be asked to do.

Princess_Bleuh

So,

I spoke to my housemate, and I basically apologised for the misunderstanding about whether or not the bathroom was for my personal use. I appreciate what guys are saying about how I shouldn't have assumed that the main bathroom was purely mine, but this was never discussed, as it had been in previous homes of mine. In the conversation, I had with her, I quote, "I know I said the bathroom was yours, but...." So can you see how I'd be naive enough to get into this situation?

I did tell her that she should have brought this up before now, given that I'm there since April! She didn't really have any explanation for not having ever said it to me directly, until last Friday, other than "it's awkward".

Regarding the breach of my privacy, she claims she told me. She casually mentioned her sister would be home and might call up, about a month ago, but I told her that I don't believe that in any way constitutes proper notice.. She "understands" my privacy issue, but it's a case of tough luck.

Del2005 wrote: »

Can you lock internal apartment doors?

Unfortunately not!

the_syco wrote: »

Inform your landlord that you are horrified that the she went through your possessions in your room (btw, is your room locked?), and that you'd like 24 hours notice in future to ensure you do not have anything personal in your room that she could see.

See above for housemates response

handlemaster wrote: »

A quick call to the Prtb should be in order see if the tenancy is registered.

I will do that, thanks!

conorhal wrote: »

Firstly OP, you're not 'messy by nature', you're lazy by choice.

Point taken, and admitted in my first post.
I've also stated that from now it won't be an issue.
My problem however, is, regardless of how clean I may be keeping both rooms, it's not ok for her to be in my personal space, much less, giving the landlord access to my room!

ronan45 wrote: »

Do silverfish spread throughout the house?

No, nor through the bathroom, or my room.
My stuff is kept in boxes on shelves, in my wardrobe, and in a stack behind the door. Or at least supposed to be! At the moment, a couple of these are not in their rightful place, and there's some overspill onto the floor, where I've pulled things out while locating something else and not put it back. There's a clotheshorse, and a laundry bag filled with stuff to go to the charity shop (clean!)
There's no food mess whatsoever.

I know everyone has a different tolerance for mess, and I'm genuinely interested as you're the first landlord to post, but taking my word for what I've described, would you write to me about it?
If you were made aware of a tenants messy bedroom, would you pay a visit without notice to check it out?

ronan45

otto_26 wrote: »

Why did tenant have to tape black bags to window?

There were 2 slits of light coming in the window the black out roller blind has about 1/2 an inch clearence either side of the window frame. On top of that there is a full curtain in place that covers this.

ronan45

the_syco wrote: »

I'm guessing he had flimsy curtains.

And I'm guessing the windows haven't been open, and with what he has described, I'd wonder if the silverfishes family would miss the two that the poster found :P

Flimsy curtains,Not at all, Plus a black out roller blind that sits into the window frame alcove. There is slight light coming in from the sides of the roller blind (1/2 inch maybe less per side for clearence against window frame) but the vast majority of this light is killed by the pair of curtains. The curtains are Cream in nature so not great for light infiltration but certainly not cheap.
What does your comment allude to about a silver fish family? It doesnt make sense?

ronan45

otto_26 wrote: »

I find it strange how landlords who get the cheapest curtains going are surprised people need to stick bags and not what on the windows to keep out the light.

I bet the landlords bedroom is dark on a bright morning, and it's like that because the landlord doesn't want to be woken up at 6am in the summer from the sun light filling up the room..

But then feels their tenants are fine with cheap curtains and are surprised and dumbfounded as to why anyone would stick something on the window to keep the sun light out??? :rolleyes:

Just so you know, since the black bin liners where brought to my attention on the window. i have ordered 50mm Wooden Venetian blinds for his room. Looks a bit better than bin liners and also will help with any condensation problems that could occur due to bin liners on the window, which also blocks the windows built in ventilation slot. Why on why would I be happy to have a tenant feel he needs bin liners on a window??? Happy tennant = long term tennant.
There is certainly nothing cheap about how i treat my tennants.
His fat old style 21" tv was replaced with a 32" flat screen tv ( ok so its a walker brand and LED so didnt exactly break the bank)
His Sat box because i couldnt tune in some of his channels, wasnt sure what was up with it I got him a brand new Combi Box. It is totally counter productive to have unhappy miserable tenants! Makes no sense at all. Why rent out a cheap kip and have tenants coming and going every few months? Its better to have a QUALITY rental with long term HAPPY tennants

djimi

ronan45 wrote: »

Just so you know, since the black bin liners where brought to my attention on the window. i have ordered 50mm Wooden Venetian blinds for his room. Looks a bit better than bin liners and also will help with any condensation problems that could occur due to bin liners on the window, which also blocks the windows built in ventilation slot. Why on why would I be happy to have a tenant feel he needs bin liners on a window??? Happy tennant = long term tennant.

In this case I would have thought you would do everything in your power to get this animal out of your property, not keep him there?!!

ronan45

djimi wrote: »

In this case I would have thought you would do everything in your power to get this animal out of your property, not keep him there?!!

Had a word re keeping food stuffs / food remains in room possible issue with rodent/ vermin. He did a clean up but Im also getting a cleaner in to do a spring clean to all rooms. Hes a quiet chap, wouldnt put anyone out of a house coming up to xmas, and I wouldnt refer to the person as an animal lol crikey
Left a mattress protector at his door as a little hint!

djimi

ronan45 wrote: »

Had a word re keeping food stuffs / food remains in room possible issue with rodent/ vermin. He did a clean up but Im also getting a cleaner in to do a spring clean to all rooms. Hes a quiet chap, wouldnt put anyone out of a house coming up to xmas, and I wouldnt refer to the person as an animal lol crikey
Left a mattress protector at his door as a little hint!

I thought I was being generous by describing him as an animal! Chap needs to take a serious look at himself if what you described is true.

otto_26

ronan45 wrote: »

Just so you know, since the black bin liners where brought to my attention on the window. i have ordered 50mm Wooden Venetian blinds for his room. Looks a bit better than bin liners and also will help with any condensation problems that could occur due to bin liners on the window, which also blocks the windows built in ventilation slot. Why on why would I be happy to have a tenant feel he needs bin liners on a window??? Happy tennant = long term tennant.
There is certainly nothing cheap about how i treat my tennants.
His fat old style 21" tv was replaced with a 32" flat screen tv ( ok so its a walker brand and LED so didnt exactly break the bank)
His Sat box because i couldnt tune in some of his channels, wasnt sure what was up with it I got him a brand new Combi Box. It is totally counter productive to have unhappy miserable tenants! Makes no sense at all. Why rent out a cheap kip and have tenants coming and going every few months? Its better to have a QUALITY rental with long term HAPPY tennants

Fair play you seem like a good landlord
Wish I had a landlord like you...

the_syco

Princess_Bleuh wrote: »

Del2005 wrote: »

Can you lock internal apartment doors?

Unfortunately not!

Inform your landlord that after someone intruded on your personal space, that you want a lock put on your door that only the landlord and you have a key for.

ronan45 wrote: »

What does your comment allude to about a silver fish family? It doesnt make sense?

Two were found, and with all the stale food around the place, probably loads more, in the corners, under the bed, etc