Cork-Limerick-Shannon-Galway Rail Route

Son of Stupido

Given the hullaballoo the government is making about Shannon Airport's new proposed administrative structure (and all the jobs this "will" create!!) perhaps the new entity would look to drive this project?? (although I doubt it )

Consideration was given recently to re-opening the Charleville-Limerick section of the Cork-Limerick line with an eye to giving Cork-Limerick-Galway Intercity services (link here http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4482&p=116&n=237). It was dismissed, but the cost benefit analysis did not take account the viability of the route taking in the airport.

A spur to Shannon town & airport has been the subject of a few studies (i don't have the links). The idea is trains from Galway to Limerick go via a spur to the airport, thus massively increasing the (current) demand for rail traffic on the route. Extend the service to Cork and this demand increases again.

All three proposals taken together as one scheme would be viable, rather than being dismissed by being examined individually.

The Service would require the Shannon link to be built, but not necessarily the Charleville one.

A few notes:

• The route is not dependent on reopening the Charleville link, as Limerick junction could be used as well
• The South and West would get a regular intercity service
• The Airport becomes more attractive with better transport links
• By bundling the WRC, Airport Link, and Cork Limerick intercity services together, Cost Benefit studies would come out positive rather than individually negative

While IR's new initiative to speed up the trains on some routes is to be welcomed (people might start using them more), I think they need to think more outside the box. If ever a rail route not going to Dublin is going to thrive, this would be it.

Who knows, perhaps the new merger with Shannon Development might drive this project through!

Son of Stupido

Link to the Shannon Airport Rail Link Study http://www.transport21.ie/Publications/upload/File/ShannonFinalReport_Final_%20270607.pdf

Interesting in that it doesn't appear to have factored in a service from Cork into the appraisal.

goingnowhere

Total rubbish and the report you have linked says so

in order to provide a competitive rail service to Shannon Airport the rail link needs to
be direct (towards Limerick), engineered to a high standard, and supplemented by
substantial work on the existing line;
as a result the capital cost is high;
even with this high specification service potential passengers gain little time through
using it, and so the overall benefits are small and most of the passengers are attracted
from existing bus services or taxis;
in the early years there would be a significant deficit on the operating account -
€7million in the first year (>50% of costs), but with a buoyant air travel market for
the whole 30 year period, revenues could potentially cover operating costs, taking a
long term view; but
the benefit to cost ratio would at best be 0.19, a very poor return on the expenditure.

corktina

there's 8 trains a day...how convenient is that going to be for air passengers? It's a very slow line that will be even slower if it has to serve Shannon too!

Air passengers from Cork going to Shannon? When we've a fine airport of our own and a fast train/bus/M8 to Dublin if that doesn't suit?

Son of Stupido

The links are there for people to decide what they make of the various reports.

Rather than delve into the executive summary, you need to read the whole report, the criteria used and the assumptions made as well as the data used.

In the Shannon airport link report for example, cost of upgrading the existing line to Galway was included in the CB, much money that has already been spent by the WRC project. This was quite a heavy weighting. Population figures used were 2006 estimates, costings were 2006, and a minimum delivery of service/ frequency was set. That said, their passenger numbers would not hold up today.

Vic_08

If the Galway - Limeeicl line was diverted via Shannon it would be even slower than the all-stops bus that currently provides links to all the places you mention.

If Shannon was such a passenger draw then it would presumably be able to pay it's debts rather than having DUB take them on.

There are already good bus connections to Shannon and they are far from capacity, this sort of fantasist rubbish is just laughable especially in the current economy.

corktina

we can't even manage a line to Dublin Airport....just that should tell you this is a waste of time.

monument

According to Mick in Ryanair, Knock will overtake Shannon soon in passangers numbers, and it already is more important for them. I have not looked into it enough to know if his is right or just on one of his rants against the state-owned airports.

But air travel provision outside Dublin is a bit up in the air and you don't want to be making massive fixed investments when government policy is so unclear -- it might be diffrent if we were back in the days when the successive governments were headlong 'for Shannon' (to borrow the phrase from their current radio ad).

Jamie2k9

According to Mick in Ryanair, Knock will overtake Shannon soon in passangers numbers, and it already is more important for them. I have not looked into it enough to know if his is right or just on one of his rants against the state-owned airports.

You should know that MOL talks a lot of B******T when it comes to the DAA/Irish Goverment. At least the Transport minister put him back in his box today over his comments about "The Grabbing"

Kristopherus

monument wrote: »

According to Mick in Ryanair, Knock will overtake Shannon soon in passangers numbers, and it already is more important for them. I have not looked into it enough to know if his is right or just on one of his rants against the state-owned airports.

But air travel provision outside Dublin is a bit up in the air and you don't want to be making massive fixed investments when government policy is so unclear -- it might be diffrent if we were back in the days when the successive governments were headlong 'for Shannon' (to borrow the phrase from their current radio ad).

For sure it will overtake Shannon, at the rate Shannon is bleeding passengers. But that does not mean that Knock will experience a big increase in footfall.

foggy_lad

Why would any sane person even consider this after the abject failure that is the western Rail Corridor? Extend the line to cork and take in Shannon Airport in each direction, someone is seriously taking the p1ss with this one!

Rodin

Of much more concern should be the linking up of the West of the country by a decent dualcarriage way, all the way from Derry/Letterkenny to Cork.

foggy_lad

Rodin wrote: »

Of much more concern should be the linking up of the West of the country by a decent dualcarriage way, all the way from Derry/Letterkenny to Cork.

There is no way the west of the country could be linked up with a viable railway so it should be with motorway instead!

dowlingm

Son of Stupido, we've been over this ground before and when the country was not over 100pc of GDP in debt. The reality is that Clare County Council could and should have taken steps to preserve a rail corridor into and out of Shannon Town, SNN and the Free Zone. Good luck threading that needle now - take a good look at OSI or Google overhead views and try and find a way in from the east. You'd have a job doing it with light rail never mind segregated heavy rail.

monument

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

You should know that MOL talks a lot of B******T when it comes to the DAA/Irish Goverment. At least the Transport minister put him back in his box today over his comments about "The Grabbing"

The problem is he may be a bull****ter, but it does not mean he's always wrong.

The Gathering has been attacked by more than just Mick.

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is no way the west of the country could be linked up with a viable railway so it should be with motorway instead!

Motorway would be overkill to the extreme, for the most part at least.

Decent dual carriage way is what is mostly needed.

Jamie2k9

The problem is he may be a bull****ter, but it does not mean he's always wrong.

The Gathering has been attacked by more than just Mick.

Its a little rich coming from Ryanair. They are top of the class when it comes to ripping people off. We only learn from the best.

LivelineDipso

The entire thing is nonsense on every level. Not just the pointless rail ink.

Shannon is dying as an airport as it has been essentially obsolete for trans-atlantic passenger services for almost 50 years - the forced 'stop over' was the WRC of its day. You could fly from New York to London and change to Dublin for less cost and not be forced to drink pints at 4am.

The government nonsense about the 'aviation centre' is like giving a condemmed man his last meal.

dowlingm

Shannon is still valuable for diversions albeit at the cost of keeping it open 24 hours. If the Air Corps relocated there they'd probably save a fortune in maritime patrol fuel alone, with a detachment left at DUB for government and the Curragh for army/garda support. Baldonnel won't fetch anything like as much these days, but it's a way to subsidise SNN without triggering a State Aid issue. After all it's been a military hub for some years now... just not an Irish one.

SeanW

LivelineDipso wrote: »

The entire thing is nonsense on every level. Not just the pointless rail ink.

Shannon is dying as an airport as it has been essentially obsolete for trans-atlantic passenger services for almost 50 years - the forced 'stop over' was the WRC of its day. You could fly from New York to London and change to Dublin for less cost and not be forced to drink pints at 4am.

The government nonsense about the 'aviation centre' is like giving a condemmed man his last meal.

It's worse than that: it used to be that you couldn't fly from the U.S. to Dublin Airport AT ALL! as in, US flights could only land at Shannon.

Ever since I was knee high to a grasshopper, all I can remember about Shannon is vested interests (like the airport workers unions and some other Western voices) whinging and moaning about Shannon feckin' Airport.

AngryLips

LivelineDipso wrote: »

Shannon is dying as an airport as it has been essentially obsolete for trans-atlantic passenger services for almost 50 years - the forced 'stop over' was the WRC of its day. You could fly from New York to London and change to Dublin for less cost and not be forced to drink pints at 4am.

Errr, what are you yabbing on about? Next summer Shannon will see services to six North American airports by five different airlines and that's actually an increase over this year or last.

foggy_lad

AngryLips wrote: »

Errr, what are you yabbing on about? Next summer Shannon will see services to six North American airports by five different airlines and that's actually an increase over this year or last.

How many of those services are scheduled unchartered and how many are transporting military personnel?

AngryLips

foggy_lad wrote: »

How many of those services are scheduled unchartered and how many are transporting military personnel?

All of them are scheduled passenger services.