Ming openly flouting the law?

MadsL

So Luke Flanagan is openly flouting the law and goading the Gardai to arrest him and yet he apparently wants to remain a TD. What are we to make of this behaviour? Should he remain a TD if he is arrested?

Personally speaking, I'd say this nonsense should stop, and he be suspended from the Dail for bringing it into disrepute.

johnnyskeleton

MadsL wrote: »

So Luke Flanagan is openly flouting the law and goading the Gardai to arrest him and yet he apparently wants to remain a TD. What are we to make of this behaviour? Should he remain a TD if he is arrested?

Personally speaking, I'd say this nonsense should stop, and he be suspended from the Dail for bringing it into disrepute.

He is peacefully disobeying what he believes to be an unfair law. It is completely different to, for example, a td not paying their taxes or taking bribes. Presumably if arrested he will continue to challenge the law through the courts.

MadsL

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

He is peacefully disobeying what he believes to be an unfair law. It is completely different to, for example, a td not paying their taxes or taking bribes. Presumably if arrested he will continue to challenge the law through the courts.

How is breaking any law of the land 'different' when you are elected to serve and uphold the Constitution and law of the land?

Why does he need to be arrested (although I'm sure he would love to be, and be seen as a martyr) in order to debate and challenge this law?

walshb

No person should get to pick and choose with impunity what laws they will and will not abide by. He is "entitled" to do as he pleases, but he should be punished should those actions break any laws.

MadsL

walshb wrote: »

No person should get to pick and choose with impunity what laws they will and will not abide by. He is "entitled" to do as he pleases, but he should be punished should those actions break any laws.

Would that punishment include being removed as a TD?

kippy

walshb wrote: »

No person should get to pick and choose with impunity what laws they will and will not abide by. He is "entitled" to do as he pleases, but he should be punished should those actions break any laws.

Indeed it should, but if it applies to Ming it should apply to all serving and past TD's.

walshb

MadsL wrote: »

Would that punishment include being removed as a TD?

I would think so. TDs are servants of the public. They cannot be allowed to be breaking laws deliberately.

frag420

Maybe if other Td's had the balls to stand up for the little man, the ordinary hard working folks that voted them in to office instead of looking after their pockets and other vested intetests then we would live in a better country!!

Riskymove

MadsL wrote: »

Would that punishment include being removed as a TD?

AFAIR if you get a sentence over a certain lenght, you lose your job as a TD

AlekSmart

frag420 wrote: »

Maybe if other Td's had the balls to stand up for the little man, the ordinary hard working folks that voted them in to office instead of looking after their pockets and other vested intetests then we would live in a better country!!

Whilst this "Little Man" theory is oft floated by protesting folks outside Leinster House these days,the reality is the "Little Men and Women" of this State regularly and willingly voted in their hundreds of thousands for the likes of CJ Haughey,Raphael P Burke,Bertie Aherne,Charles McCreevy and,over the years a cast of thousands of the most unsavoury and disreputable politicians imaginable.

The constant portrayal of the Irish electorate as being comprised of poor but essentially honest hard-working folks eager to pay their way in society is accurate only to a point.

Lets face it we were only too happy to listen to Ministers for Finance open their yearly budget speches with the words "I propose today,to remove a further x thousand people from the tax-net" or for them to announce yet more allowances or payments from the public purse to pressure groups.

WE,the People of Ireland,cheered loudly when in 1979,Prof Martin O Donoghue's wonderous notion of abolishing Domestic Rates and Motor Taxation became reality.

Anybody raising their head above the parapet and questioning the sanity of the good Prof would have been lynched (;)).

More recently,Charley McCreevy's SSIA wheeze,well intentioned as it may have been,was roundly cheered by the Little Men of Ireland as they wrapped its financial cloak around themselves...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/saving-scheme-to-spur-cash-war-among-banks-355511.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/ssia/

All these and many more "Cheap-Tricks" were willingly accepted by the Irish electorate who repeatedly voted back into power the snake-oil and couloured-smoke vendors responsible.

Yes,of course we have a selection of unsavoury,incompetent and downright criminal Politicians in Leinster House,but I venture to suggest this eclectic mix accurately reflects those who have put them there !

Sixtus

MadsL wrote: »

Personally speaking, I'd say this nonsense should stop, and he be suspended from the Dail for bringing it into disrepute.

Yes this is the thing that would bring the dail into disrepute.

bmaxi

Down with this sort of thing. Ming and his mates should be compelled to roll over and take it up the arse like the rest of the "Fighting Irish".

ResearchWill

walshb wrote: »

No person should get to pick and choose with impunity what laws they will and will not abide by. He is "entitled" to do as he pleases, but he should be punished should those actions break any laws.

Many through history would disagree with you, http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/885370/Salt-March

The start of the American War of independence was also a fight of ordinary persons disagreeing with the laws of the land.

This form of protest is valid, but any person taking part in it does risk real sanction. In this case Ming has openly admitted he has broken the law but only because he strongly believes the law is wrong (I have no opinion one way or the other) he also stood for election on this very issue, at least he is being consistent.

Icepick

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

He is peacefully disobeying what he believes to be an unfair law. It is completely different to, for example, a td not paying their taxes or taking bribes. Presumably if arrested he will continue to challenge the law through the courts.

Cutting turf is not peaceful disobedience. It's actually much worse than not paying tax as that can be rectified easily.

Icepick

frag420 wrote: »

Maybe if other Td's had the balls to stand up for the little man, the ordinary hard working folks that voted them in to office instead of looking after their pockets and other vested intetests then we would live in a better country!!

Do you not see the irony of this post?
You are advising him to only look after his voters and their vested interest and pockets.

Sponge Bob

ResearchWill wrote: »

In this case Ming has openly admitted he has broken the law but only because he strongly believes the law is wrong (I have no opinion one way or the other) he also stood for election on this very issue, at least he is being consistent.

Correct. Ming has a clear mandate in Roscommon where most of his most vocal opponents have no mandate at all since the wipeout of the Green Party in the Local and General elections in recent years.

The issue of whether he will lose his seat is largely a practical political matteer.. While one may be removed from the Dáil that does not invariably mean that one cannot be re elected in the very next byelection....thereby creating:

a) a STRONGER mandate
b) a Martyr, even if reelected.

Neither FG nor FF will want to make a Martyr of Ming as that could lead to a wide scale eruption in their electoral heartlands ....those who remember Clann na Talmhan certainly would not vote to eject Ming from the Dáil.

Having a strong and rural centric party to countervail against some of the more extreme green policies would do no harm whatsoever.

I can certainly predict that such a party would never form a coalition with the greens at any rate....assuming the greens ever get into the Dáil again.

Fighting Irish

He's one of the best TDs Ireland has ever had!

frag420

Icepick wrote: »

Do you not see the irony of this post?
You are advising him to only look after his voters and their vested interest and pockets.

No. I was referring to Ming standing up for his constituents and working for them which is very rare amongst most party aligned politicians.

Icepick

frag420 wrote: »

No. I was referring to Ming standing up for his constituents and working for them which is very rare amongst most party aligned politicians.

No, it's not.

ResearchWill

Icepick wrote: »

No, it's not.

Yes he is you may disagree with him, but it was a clear plank of his manifesto,

http://irishelectionliterature.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/lukeming11c.jpg

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/let-me-represent-you-flyer-for-luke-ming-flanagan-independent-roscommon-south-leitrim/

Carra23

If he doesn't stand up for his constituents what chance have they got ?

Turf cutting is banned because certain bogs have been classified as Special Areas of Conservation (SAC's) or Special Protection Areas (SPA's). I could be wrong but is the massive tunnel Shell are building in Mayo not going right through an SPA or an SAC ?

If that is correct, well then why is it ok for for a global corporation to bye pass the law of the land at will and not the ordinary folk of the land ? If our laws are to be taken seriously then they should apply universally with the same strength applied in all situations.

Sponge Bob

<sigh> Shell spent millions on eco this that and the others and planning, in the end they were told to go UNDER the SAC in effect which is what the tunnel is.

Carra23

Sponge Bob wrote: »

<sigh> Shell spent millions on eco this that and the others and planning, in the end they were told to go UNDER the SAC in effect which is what the tunnel is.

I don't understand the relevance of your point. It doesn't matter how much they spent on planning or EIS. The fact that the route the tunnel takes is under the SAC is irrelevant also because my point is that the law is not applied equally.

I would bet my house that no man or woman in Ireland will ever get or did ever get planning permission to do anything near an SAC or SPA but Shell did.

Are you suggesting that because they spent a lot of money on the process its ok ?

Sponge Bob

Plenty got permission once they stumped up €1m + to pay the eco consultants first. Have you seen a full baseline EIS recently, they are massive documents.