Been made to stay late, not paid

LegacyUser

Hi everyone,
I currently work part time. Have done for 2 years now. Handy enough hours and suits me down to the ground at the moment. However, when I started I was told I'd have to stay in after closing time to do the cash. Time varies, sometimes 25 minutes, sometimes 45 to an hour. Never got paid but got a beer to have for my troubles. I expressed my dissatisfaction at this, especially when I heard another branch got paid for the half hour but none of the other part timers would rally with me so I sucked it up and did it. Our manager is a friend of mine and I said I was doing it as a favour to him as I knew he was getting a hard time off of head office.

Got a call into the office yesterday by my manager. Was fed a speal about there won't be as many hours next year and I'll be dropped to 5-10 from the 20+ I'm doing now and it would be best if I looked for a new job. Raging is not the word. Said fine and worked the rest of my shift. Am looking for a new job immediately but want to declare no more favours will be done while I'm employed, i.e. when closing time comes, I walk.

Is this a snotty move by me? Is staying behind unpaid the norm for other places? Will I affect my reference by going down this route?

Procrastastudy

Pretty much the norm in retail / related professions. I'm not condoning it - it's just the way it is.

Corruptedmorals

I would disagree, it is not the norm in retail to be unpaid. Most places have clock-in machines, so you are paid until you walk off the floor (in 15 minute blocks). A lot of places roster past the closing time of the shop for evening staff, but they are still paid until they are leaving.

XxMCRxBabyxX

It's the norm anywhere I've worked. Only paid til closing and not for cashing up afterwards. I have friends who would have had the sane experience too

Procrastastudy

Its at best, a 50/50 split. Its certainly the norm in the UK and most of the UK chains that I know of wouldn't operate a clock-in machine. The only retailer I know that does is Hickey's Fabrics that used to have some mad hand scanning arrangement.

The only requirement is to keep records (IIRC) some places operate sign in, sign out, others rely on rosters - some will pay based on those, other will pay based on contracts in the payroll system.

EDIT: Oh and Starbucks you used to clock in on the office computer.

StillWaters

Id be careful with refusing to cash up after your shift, it leaves you wide open.

Also if you are job hunting immintently and looking for a reference, now might not be the best time to implement a work to rule.

Mrs OBumble

StillWaters wrote: »

Id be careful with refusing to cash up after your shift, it leaves you wide open.

Also if you are job hunting immintently and looking for a reference, now might not be the best time to implement a work to rule.

Some good advice there, IMHO.

You're angry, and fair enough. Don't let that become a reason to ruin your relationships with people who might help you find another job. Life is just too short.

The Idyl Race

foreal wrote: »

Hi everyone,
I currently work part time. Have done for 2 years now. Handy enough hours and suits me down to the ground at the moment. However, when I started I was told I'd have to stay in after closing time to do the cash. Time varies, sometimes 25 minutes, sometimes 45 to an hour. Never got paid but got a beer to have for my troubles. I expressed my dissatisfaction at this, especially when I heard another branch got paid for the half hour but none of the other part timers would rally with me so I sucked it up and did it. Our manager is a friend of mine and I said I was doing it as a favour to him as I knew he was getting a hard time off of head office.

Got a call into the office yesterday by my manager. Was fed a speal about there won't be as many hours next year and I'll be dropped to 5-10 from the 20+ I'm doing now and it would be best if I looked for a new job. Raging is not the word. Said fine and worked the rest of my shift. Am looking for a new job immediately but want to declare no more favours will be done while I'm employed, i.e. when closing time comes, I walk.

Is this a snotty move by me? Is staying behind unpaid the norm for other places? Will I affect my reference by going down this route?

I worked in retail in the past in a small company and that was the case. It's not ideal, but keep your thoughts to yourself, get yourself another job if possible and get away. Small Irish business people are often far from generous to their workers, and that's the politiest way I can put it.

LegacyUser

*sigh*

I know you're right. All the little imaginary arguments with my boss in my head that I come out triumphant will have to remain a fantasy. At the end of the day I have nothing at all to gain from speaking out and everything to lose considering I'm not in the job come new year and will be looking for references. Principles have no place in these positions I guess. Suck it up and off I go. Thanks for the responses.

Side note relating to references:

Is it true that a bad reference is somewhat illegal in Ireland? I heard the code for a bad reference is something along the lines of 'The applicant worked for us from 'date x' till 'date y'' and nothing else.

Procrastastudy

foreal wrote: »

Is it true that a bad reference is somewhat illegal in Ireland? I heard the code for a bad reference is something along the lines of 'The applicant worked for us from 'date x' till 'date y'' and nothing else.

That's all the reference most will give. You may or may not be able to get an unofficial reference from your line manager by telephone.

As for bad references being illegal, they are no more illegal than good references. We were actually talking about this the other day sharing war stories. I remember *someone ahem* giving a glowing reference to someone who had gone for a job in another retailer. The sort of reference what made them wonder if they should sack the MD and use this guy. Why? Because when this person left for their new job there might have been some dancing around the office with glee. If the guy got there and what was said was untrue they could, potentially sue.

As for bad references its the same - as long as it's true there is no problem. But are you willing to take the risk as an employer that you might not be able to back-up your statements?

tatli_lokma

OP - it might be worth speaking with a solicitor. You have a contract (I hope) and as such any changes to it must be with your agreement. So they can't just say, you have a contract for 20 hours, but we're not giving you 20 hours, we're giving you 10 so best off if you jog on and find somewhere else. They can't legally do that AFAIK.

If they no longer have the hours and have to reduce your contract, you might have grounds to look for redundancy. As an employee of 2 years, you should be entitled to statutory redundancy. (And its actually 104 weeks, so its not a full calendar year to year as such, so even if you have worked 11.5 months, you still might hit the 104 weeks.)

So I really think you should get some legal advice on where you stand on it.

If you are made redundant then it is a much better situation to go to a new employer with - why did you leave your last job? well unfortunately I was made redundant. Much better than saying you were 'let go' or couldn't get the hours etc etc (even if you get no money for it, it is still a better thing to say you were made redundant). And you can go to the Social welfare immediately, rather than have a wsiting time imposed because you "left" your job. Also, if you are being made redundant, legally you are allowed paid time off to look for alternative employment, which given the time of year, might be very beneficial.

the_syco

Little Ted wrote: »

OP - it might be worth speaking with a solicitor. You have a contract (I hope) and as such any changes to it must be with your agreement. So they can't just say, you have a contract for 20 hours, but we're not giving you 20 hours, we're giving you 10 so best off if you jog on and find somewhere else. They can't legally do that AFAIK.

OP; check what your minimum hours are. I have known people in Dunnes that had a minimum of 6 hours, and had their hours slashed during some quite times.

Examples of legal bad references;
Would you hire X person again; no
or
Would you hire X person again; ...(wait 20 seconds)... yeeaaaahhh... sure i would...

=-=

As for working to rule; bad idea.

Corruptedmorals

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Its at best, a 50/50 split. Its certainly the norm in the UK and most of the UK chains that I know of wouldn't operate a clock-in machine. The only retailer I know that does is Hickey's Fabrics that used to have some mad hand scanning arrangement.

The only requirement is to keep records (IIRC) some places operate sign in, sign out, others rely on rosters - some will pay based on those, other will pay based on contracts in the payroll system.

EDIT: Oh and Starbucks you used to clock in on the office computer.

Penneys, Dunnes and Tesco operate the handscanning ones. That is quite a hefty proportion of retail right off the bat. They are a nifty idea because you can't clock anyone else in and they record lates and going home early/late with no hassle. I am sure plenty others use them too. I would put money on all other supermarkets and department stores having them. Certainly small shops would not need them, but they dont represent the majority.

Mrs OBumble

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

I would put money on all other supermarkets and department stores having them.

Debenhams didn't, as at mid 2010. No idea if they've been installed since.

Procrastastudy

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Certainly small shops would not need them, but they dont represent the majority.

It depends how you look at it. If Wal-Mart in the US operate a policy it probably means the majority of people in retail adhere to it - it doesn't mean the majority of retail does.

Pennys - although owned by Primark is a buy out of an Irish company along with Tesco (depending on the store) and Dunnes is obviously Irish. Irish chains tend to operate this clock-in clock out thing. British Chains tend not to.