Liam Toland says Kidney must go if we lose to Wales

padser

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1130/1224327299935.html

Liam Toland has an article in the Irish Times effectively critising Kidney and finishing by saying if we don't beat Wales, Kidney has to go ( mid 6n).

It's by a distance the strongest article I've seen from a mainstream journałist suggesting kidney should go so I would humbly suggest that if you feel that way you should support the article by both reading it and posting comment (it's a Facebook log in)

Tombo2001

its an irish times thing......they like their journalists to have diametrically opposed opinions.....fintan o'toole and john waters........gerry thornley and liam toland in this case......


did I say journalists? i meant columnists.

ray jay

Already discussed here.

.ak

ray jay wrote: »

Already discussed here.

Yeah but honestly I have no problem with a new thread for it if you guys wish.

Dravokivich

I'd be curious why there is a need to pick out a team we've had some trivial loses against over the last couple of years. One of which was down to an official not keeping his eye in the ball prior to a quick line out which lead to a try. Another being a tackle that was misjudged by an official and we got pinned for the penalty on it.

If another nations team was to be picked out as a target, surely it should be a team we've shown consistency in beating? I really don't get the wales thing at all.

padser

ray jay wrote: »

Already discussed here.

Cheers - I'd guessed Id find it somewhere but thought I'd it was worth a thread as for me it's a huge step to see media opinion (hopefully) beginning to swing

padser

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'd be curious why there is a need to pick out a team we've had some trivial loses against over the last couple of years. One of which was down to an official not keeping his eye in the ball prior to a quick line out which lead to a try. Another being a tackle that was misjudged by an official and we got pinned for the penalty on it.

If another nations team was to be picked out as a target, surely it should be a team we've shown consistency in beating? I really don't get the wales thing at all.

Yeah, that's a very fair point. In general in one way it's always unfair to say to a coach "win your next game or else" but I think the rationale here is Kidney has had 4 yrs with the team, excluding the first yr (which was obviously great) the team has hugely regressed and has had 3 or 4 isolated good performances. Beating Wales would show last week may be more than isolated performance whereas losing to them confirms we are not an am upward trajectory....

molloyjh

I'm not 100% sure he meant we need to dump Kidney mid-tournament. He said something needed to change, but he didn't say what. He at best implied Kidney should get the boot.

That said its the most critical article we've seen yet so fair play to Toland. He's right in everything he says. If we don't beat Wales we'll have lost to them 4 times in a row. That's not acceptable. And I don't buy the excuses of the officials. In the game in Wales with "that" try, we still had 30 mins to get back and win the game and we couldn't. In Dublin for that dubious penalty we had allowed them to advance up the pitch almost completely unopposed in the run up to it. We need to look at our input into those results and stop looking to blame officials.

padser

padser wrote: »

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1130/1224327299935.html

Liam Toland has an article in the Irish Times effectively critising Kidney and finishing by saying if we don't beat Wales, Kidney has to go ( mid 6n).

It's by a distance the strongest article I've seen from a mainstream journałist suggesting kidney should go so I would humbly suggest that if you feel that way you should support the article by both reading it and posting comment (it's a Facebook log in)

thats nothing check this out love jed

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10542998

.ak

I love Jed.

tolosenc

I don't get the "struggled for consistency" line that people come out with. We've been consistently rubbish for ages.

rrpc

tolosenc wrote: »

I don't get the "struggled for consistency" line that people come out with. We've been consistently rubbish for ages.

We've had protracted periods of rubbishness interspersed with one-off excellent performances.

We need to cut those out and be more consistently rubbish .

padser

tolosenc wrote: »

I don't get the "struggled for consistency" line that people come out with. We've been consistently rubbish for ages.

I guess the point is that if you take very small number of very isolated matches (england once, Australia once (and one draw), France away draw once, argentina once) you could make the argument that Ireland have played some good games over the last 3 yrs.....hence the fact we have been sh1t 80% of the times means we are "struggling for consistency"

padser

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure he meant we need to dump Kidney mid-tournament. He said something needed to change, but he didn't say what. He at best implied Kidney should get the boot.

yeah - he could argue he is not 100% saying DK would have to go, but taken in conjunction with the rest of the article (he calls them "Declan Kidneys Ireland", the "Kidney Bench" "Kidney’s location and promotion of talent has been slow") I'd find it difficult to interpret it any other way...

tolosenc

padser wrote: »

I guess the point is that if you take very small number of very isolated matches (england once, Australia once (and one draw), France away draw once, argentina once) you could make the argument that Ireland have played some good games over the last 3 yrs.....hence the fact we have been sh1t 80% of the times means we are "struggling for consistency"

The win over Oz at the World Cup was a good result, but hardly a great performance. The only time we looked like scoring a try was when Tommy Bowe intercepted. I wish people would stop referring to that as a "good game".

France away this year was a good result, but it was the Tommy Bowe show, and not Ireland's attack, that got the result.

France 09, England 11, and Argentina 12 are the 3 good performances we've had under Deccie.

padser

tolosenc wrote: »

The win over Oz at the World Cup was a good result, but hardly a great performance. The only time we looked like scoring a try was when Tommy Bowe intercepted. I wish people would stop referring to that as a "good game".

France away this year was a good result, but it was the Tommy Bowe show, and not Ireland's attack, that got the result.

France 09, England 11, and Argentina 12 are the 3 good performances we've had under Deccie.

I'd add Australia 11 to that and arguably remove Argentina 12 as they really didn't show up.

But to be honest I agree, I was saying that I agree that it's arguable that we have had some good performances along with all the bad ones and hence that we struggle for consistency. My own view is that we have been consistently rubbish with the occasional good game thrown in - mostly when the opposition for one reason or another has been off form.

GiftofGab

tolosenc wrote: »

The win over Oz at the World Cup was a good result, but hardly a great performance. The only time we looked like scoring a try was when Tommy Bowe intercepted. I wish people would stop referring to that as a "good game".

France away this year was a good result, but it was the Tommy Bowe show, and not Ireland's attack, that got the result.

France 09, England 11, and Argentina 12 are the 3 good performances we've had under Deccie.

The win over Oz was a great performance. Our game plan wasn't to go out and score countless tries. We had a specific gameplan and that was to out-muscle them upfront and not give their backline the ball or space to perform. The players did exactly what was needed of them and it will go down as a great performance. Different game plans for different games.

GiftofGab

Back on topic - there's no chance the IRFU would sack Kidney mid tournament. I even believe that Kidney will keep his job if he wins a triple crown. It would be an absolute disgrace if he kept his job with anything less than a grand slam.

ionadnapokot

Its a good article. In effect saying anything other than a grand slam and Kidney should not have his contract renewed.
Grand. But if we loose to Wales and somehow won the 6 nations, then Kidney should get a contract renewal.

In reality IRFU should be drawing up a short list for a replacement now.

padser

ionadnapokot wrote: »

In reality IRFU should be drawing up a short list for a replacement now.

Or 12 to 18 months ago? :-p