Rip-off Debenhams €59 price tag says £38 underneath

born

Looking for a shirt today in Debenhams in Limerick I peeled away the Euro price tag to reveal the UK price which showed a €13 difference in street price. That's 22% increase over the UK. VAT rates are similar in both countries.

IE Price €59, UK Price £38. (€46)

See the attached photo.

partyatmygaff

Isn't there a thread like this every week? Wages are higher here as are many other costs and there's also the added cost of moving the stock from the UK to Ireland.

bladespin

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Isn't there a thread like this every week? Wages are higher here as are many other costs and there's also the added cost of moving the stock from the UK to Ireland.

Not much of an excuse for more than 50% mark-up.

born

The logistics cost argument (shipping things to Ireland) is not an overall increase in their cost of doing business. By this argument, people in Malaysia should be paying £400 for the shirt since it's ten times further away. Doesn't work like that. Debenhams in NI is not more expensive than the UK.

Wages are not 22% higher in Ireland than in the UK. UK is €7.50, IE is €6.06 to €8.65 - most of the staff in Debs are in the lower bracket.
is •An employee who is under 18 is entitled to €6.06 per hour (this is 70% of the minimum wage)
•An employee who is in the first year of employment since the age of 18 is entitled to €6.92 per hour (80% of minimum wage)
•An employee who is in the second year of employment since the date of first employment over the age of 18 is entitled to €7.79 per hour (90% of the minimum wage)

davo10

born wrote: »

The logistics cost argument (shipping things to Ireland) is not an overall increase in their cost of doing business. By this argument, people in Malaysia should be paying £400 for the shirt since it's ten times further away. Doesn't work like that. Debenhams in NI is not more expensive than the UK.

Wages are not 22% higher in Ireland than in the UK. UK is €7.50, IE is €6.06 to €8.65 - most of the staff in Debs are in the lower bracket.
is •An employee who is under 18 is entitled to €6.06 per hour (this is 70% of the minimum wage)
•An employee who is in the first year of employment since the age of 18 is entitled to €6.92 per hour (80% of minimum wage)
•An employee who is in the second year of employment since the date of first employment over the age of 18 is entitled to €7.79 per hour (90% of the minimum wage)

If the shirt is made in Malaysia and the workers are paid €1 per hour, I'm guessing it would not cost €400 to buy. A two euro difference per hour per employee per week per year is quite a big difference. Not to mention rates, insurance, utilities, employer Prsi etc. if you want cheaper products, would it not be reasonable to accept equivalent lower rates of pay/benefit as recieved in Northern Ireland and Malaysia?

born

davo10 wrote: »

If the shirt is made in Malaysia and the workers are paid €1 per hour, I'm guessing it would not cost €400 to buy. A two euro difference per hour per employee per week per year is quite a big difference. Not to mention rates, insurance, utilities, employer Prsi etc. if you want cheaper products, would it not be reasonable to accept equivalent lower rates of pay/benefit as recieved in Northern Ireland and Malaysia?

There isn't always aa direct correlation between pay and price as you suggest. debs are not charging more because we pay too high a living wage. They are doing it because it is profitable. Lidl are cheaper in DE than IE yet wages are high there too. A tshirt in bombay is more expensive than in Walmart in usa etc. Im not denying costs in Ireland but there are economies of scale that would allow them to charge similar prices in the UK and IE and still be profitable. They don't do that because they are making fantastic profits in this country not because the costs are to high but because they can. Nothing wrong with this. It just makes me feel like they think the Irish are dumb.

davo10

born wrote: »

There isn't always aa direct correlation between pay and price as you suggest. debs are not charging more because we pay too high a living wage. They are doing it because it is profitable. Lidl are cheaper in DE than IE yet wages are high there too. A tshirt in bombay is more expensive than in Walmart in usa etc. Im not denying costs in Ireland but there are economies of scale that would allow them to charge similar prices in the UK and IE and still be profitable. They don't do that because they are making fantastic profits in this country not because the costs are to high but because they can. Nothing wrong with this. It just makes me feel like they think the Irish are dumb.

If you consider economies of scale, as they sell considerably more in the Uk, have more staff on a lower wage etc, it stands to reason that goods would be cheaper as the market is bigger and there is more competition. You may well be right and they consider us a soft touch, but that's the beauty of having to display prices, you see them and decide if you want to buy or not.

sandin

Born, whilst I agree that debenhams are over priced here AND in the UK, I would totally disagree with your statement on wages. MINIMUM wage in Ireland is 8.65, debenhams standard rate is over 9.00. They also employ very few under 18s and then you have employer prsi which is twice the UK rate.

One issue debenhams do have here is they paid way over the odds for roches stores and havehuge legacy rents which can't be changed. - but that's not our fault.

otto_26

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Isn't there a thread like this every week? Wages are higher here as are many other costs and there's also the added cost of moving the stock from the UK to Ireland.

Yes I agree but isn't corporate tax half in Ireland then what it is in UK?

Wouldn't that alone cover the extra costs of wages and moving stock???

sandin

otto_26 wrote: »

Yes I agree but isn't corporate tax half in Ireland then what it is in UK?

Wouldn't that alone cover the extra costs of wages and moving stock???

If you are not making a profit it doesn't matter what level of tax there is and even if for example they made £1m profit here and UK, the difference would be about £130,000

With wages accounting for circa 12%-15% of a fashion retailers revenue, the little extra from tax saving is miniscule.

3DataModem

bladespin wrote: »

Not much of an excuse for more than 50% mark-up.

25 percent mark up, by my calculations.

otto_26

sandin wrote: »

If you are not making a profit it doesn't matter what level of tax there is and even if for example they made £1m profit here and UK, the difference would be about £130,000

With wages accounting for circa 12%-15% of a fashion retailers revenue, the little extra from tax saving is miniscule.

Yes but aren't you using the excuse that the reason prices are higher in Ireland is because wages are higher???

They pay 50% less tax in Ireland then in UK! Their wage bill certainly isn't 50% higher in Ireland than the UK????

borderlinemeath

otto_26 wrote: »

Yes but aren't you using the excuse that the reason prices are higher in Ireland is because wages are higher???

They pay 50% less tax in Ireland then in UK! Their wage bill certainly isn't 50% higher in Ireland than the UK????

Not just wages. The wage bill is only part of the cost of trading in Ireland.

Commercial rates paid to local authorities, for the likes of Debenhams this would be a colossal bill. Put it this way - an average shop circa 700sq ft in a small country town with less than 5000 inhabitants paid a commercial rates bill of around €4000. Another example I know would be a retail park outlet on the outskirts of a large town paying in the region of €30,000 per annum. So with these examples in mind just imagine how much a Debenhams department store would have to pay in a central city location or an extremely busy shopping centre like Blanchardstown.

Commercial utilities, warehousing costs, insurance costs, recycling and waste disposal charges all huge costs to retailers in Ireland. Add in repairs and maintenance of premises all costing more than their UK counterparts and you will soon see the costs add up.

All these costs have to be swallowed up before a retailer opens it's doors for trading in the morning. As a former retailer I can understand why some stores have what look to be exchange rates that are way out of line. Also bear in mind that rates are set in advance, around the time of purchasing the stock so expecting the price to change if the rate becomes more favorable is not going to happen.

TL:DR It's all trading factors in conjunction with a higher wage bill that sets the price for retailers in this country.

otto_26

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Not just wages. The wage bill is only part of the cost of trading in Ireland.

Commercial rates paid to local authorities, for the likes of Debenhams this would be a colossal bill. Put it this way - an average shop circa 700sq ft in a small country town with less than 5000 inhabitants paid a commercial rates bill of around €4000. Another example I know would be a retail park outlet on the outskirts of a large town paying in the region of €30,000 per annum. So with these examples in mind just imagine how much a Debenhams department store would have to pay in a central city location or an extremely busy shopping centre like Blanchardstown.

Commercial utilities, warehousing costs, insurance costs, recycling and waste disposal charges all huge costs to retailers in Ireland. Add in repairs and maintenance of premises all costing more than their UK counterparts and you will soon see the costs add up.

All these costs have to be swallowed up before a retailer opens it's doors for trading in the morning. As a former retailer I can understand why some stores have what look to be exchange rates that are way out of line. Also bear in mind that rates are set in advance, around the time of purchasing the stock so expecting the price to change if the rate becomes more favorable is not going to happen.

TL:DR It's all trading factors in conjunction with a higher wage bill that sets the price for retailers in this country.

• Companies in the UK also pay Commercial rates paid to local authorities which are also a colossal bill?????
• Imagine how much a department store pays in outskirts of UK cities?
• Commercial utilities, warehousing costs, insurance costs, recycling and waste disposal charges all huge costs to retailers in UK. Add in repairs and maintenance of premises all costing more?? than their UK counterparts and you will soon see the costs add up.
• Companies in UK have huge council tax rates, huge water rates
• If Debenhams in the middle of Cardiff makes a profit of 1 million for their financial year they need to pay 260,000 to the tax man
• If Debenhams in the middle of Dublin makes a profit of 1 million for their financial year they need to pay 125,000 to the tax man..
• This leaves Debenhams in Dublin with 135,000 more in profit???

Can you explain if it is how you say it is then how are Tesco making a higher net profit per shop in Ireland than UK???


Your claims don't add up??

borderlinemeath

otto_26 wrote: »

• Companies in the UK also pay Commercial rates paid to local authorities which are also a colossal bill?????
• Imagine how much a department store pays in outskirts of UK cities?
• Commercial utilities, warehousing costs, insurance costs, recycling and waste disposal charges all huge costs to retailers in UK. Add in repairs and maintenance of premises all costing more?? than their UK counterparts and you will soon see the costs add up.
• Companies in UK have huge council tax rates, huge water rates
• If Debenhams in the middle of Cardiff makes a profit of 1 million for their financial year they need to pay 260,000 to the tax man
• If Debenhams in the middle of Dublin makes a profit of 1 million for their financial year they need to pay 125,000 to the tax man..
• This leaves Debenhams in Dublin with 135,000 more in profit???

Can you explain if it is how you say it is then how are Tesco making a higher net profit per shop in Ireland than UK???


Your claims don't add up??

I'll just focus on this for your post. While Tesco undoubtedly make a profit, it has never been proven that they make more in Ireland rather than the UK. A newspaper article around 3 years ago hinted that this may be the case but it was only articulated and NEVER proven. Tesco didn't comment on the article so it was immediately assumed that because Tesco are a big bad UK company that it HAD to be true.

Can you find a reputable source for your assumption rather than a speculative article from a few years back?

sandin

otto_26 wrote: »

• Companies in the UK also pay Commercial rates paid to local authorities which are also a colossal bill?????
• Imagine how much a department store pays in outskirts of UK cities?
• Commercial utilities, warehousing costs, insurance costs, recycling and waste disposal charges all huge costs to retailers in UK. Add in repairs and maintenance of premises all costing more?? than their UK counterparts and you will soon see the costs add up.
• Companies in UK have huge council tax rates, huge water rates
• If Debenhams in the middle of Cardiff makes a profit of 1 million for their financial year they need to pay 260,000 to the tax man
• If Debenhams in the middle of Dublin makes a profit of 1 million for their financial year they need to pay 125,000 to the tax man..
• This leaves Debenhams in Dublin with 135,000 more in profit???

Can you explain if it is how you say it is then how are Tesco making a higher net profit per shop in Ireland than UK???


Your claims don't add up??

Commercial rates in the UK are less than half the rate in Ireland when similar comparisons are acrried out. e.g. 2000 sq ft in Liffey valley is circa 45,000 rates, in Bluewater centre in kent a similar size unit has rates of just over £15,000.

Commercial rates are council rates - they are one of the same. They are not paid twice in the UK.

Water charges are Extra here too as are waste charges.

Debenhams wish they could make €1m from their Irish operations let alone a single store. They paid over the odds for roches and are tied into high rent leases which is preventing them from making the extorionate profits they make in the UK - as I said, they are overpriced in the UK as well as Ireland.

As for Tesco - in 2007 the Irish operations were thoight to make a return of 7.1%, the same year the UK operation made a profit of 6.9%, but better still, Tesco is owned by hundreds of thousands of shareholders including tons of Irish people (where their pensions have the FTSE100 in their portfolio). Also, since 2007 Tesco have brought prices down substantially in Ireland, so much so that southern shoppers no longer go across the border unless its their nearest shopping area.

IMightKnow

Just use parcel motel??

otto_26

sandin wrote: »

Debenhams wish they could make €1m from their Irish operations let alone a single store. They paid over the odds for roches and are tied into high rent leases which is preventing them from making the extorionate profits they make in the UK - as I said, they are overpriced in the UK as well as Ireland.

But they are more overpriced in Ireland while paying 50% less tax?

sandin wrote: »

As for Tesco - in 2007 the Irish operations were thoight to make a return of 7.1%, the same year the UK operation made a profit of 6.9%, but better still, Tesco is owned by hundreds of thousands of shareholders including tons of Irish people (where their pensions have the FTSE100 in their portfolio). Also, since 2007 Tesco have brought prices down substantially in Ireland, so much so that southern shoppers no longer go across the border unless its their nearest shopping area.

Doesn't this further suggest that operating costs are not that far apart within the UK and Ireland?

stephendevlin

IMightKnow wrote: »

Just use parcel motel??

Or you could just "not" buy it???? Not like you are being forced into buying it at the higher price.

CaSCaDe711

2 weeks ago in Easons, a mag (Andriod, Tips, Tricks and Hacks) had GB£9.99 on the barcode, and they charged me Eur15.12 for it.

Did I feel robbed?

Yes :mad:

borderlinemeath

CaSCaDe711 wrote: »

2 weeks ago in Easons, a mag (Andriod, Tips, Tricks and Hacks) had GB£9.99 on the barcode, and they charged me Eur15.12 for it.

Did I feel robbed?

Yes :mad:

Books, newspapers and Magazines in the UK have a zero VAT rate so there's 23% VAT on top of the exchange rate of around 21%. Government rather than Easons doing revenues work for them is who you need to be angry with.

kdowling

They don't need a reason to charge what they charge!
Why are people arguing over what this reason is, be it wages, shipping costs etc?
They can charge €100 for the jumper here if they like. They don't need a reason or a certain mark up. If you think it's too expensive don't buy it.
The shop is in the business of making as much profit as possible and the market will ultimately decide the price.
They obviously think they will make more money charging €59 in Ireland.
If they charged the equivalent in the UK customers wouldn't buy it for that price and would go to their competitors. That's the market deciding the price and how business works.

grange mac

CaSCaDe711 wrote: »

2 weeks ago in Easons, a mag (Andriod, Tips, Tricks and Hacks) had GB£9.99 on the barcode, and they charged me Eur15.12 for it.

Did I feel robbed?

Yes :mad:

was the book worth it?

CaSCaDe711

grange mac wrote: »

was the book worth it?

Maybe I should have said "felt annoyed" instead of "felt robbed".

The magazine is decent enough, like a lot of the other Imagine Publishing mags.

Feel annoyed again now, might put it on eBay for Eur20 (joking)

born

kdowling wrote: »

They don't need a reason to charge what they charge!
Why are people arguing over what this reason is, be it wages, shipping costs etc?
They can charge €100 for the jumper here if they like. They don't need a reason or a certain mark up. If you think it's too expensive don't buy it.
The shop is in the business of making as much profit as possible and the market will ultimately decide the price.
They obviously think they will make more money charging €59 in Ireland.
If they charged the equivalent in the UK customers wouldn't buy it for that price and would go to their competitors. That's the market deciding the price and how business works.

of course they can charge what they like , and we have the option of not buying. but debs are not the only ones doing this. if you look at the main street in limerick tonight you will see the stores all the way up to street , all of them British. Hmv, argos, tesco, debs and oddly danske bank. so the choice for brands will come from fewer and fewer sources and so will choice. therefore it's not simply case of not purchasing it. we do not live in a totally free market of wide choice, we are a small country where multinationals can easily wipe out competition. And this is what is happening. We have been conquered by commerce, as my mum used to say.

kdowling

born wrote: »

so the choice for brands will come from fewer and fewer sources and so will choice. therefore it's not simply case of not purchasing it. we do not live in a totally free market of wide choice, we are a small country where multinationals can easily wipe out competition.

If people want their local services then they should make sure they shop local.
I met a woman who said isnt it terrible that the local butcher has closed down yet she only brought from him once in a blue moon and brought from a multinational supermarket regularly!!

You cannot stop multination coming in and undercutting competition but this constant wining that they should be under some sort of moral obligation to charge a certain mark up is ridiculous.
There are three thread going right now about the differential in uk and Irish prices!

Geuze

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Books, newspapers and Magazines in the UK have a zero VAT rate so there's 23% VAT on top of the exchange rate of around 21%. Government rather than Easons doing revenues work for them is who you need to be angry with.

VAT on mags is 13.5%.

sandin

Mags =

UK cover price x rate of exchange x 12% service fee x 9% vat.

£9.99 @ 1.25 exchange = 15.25.

service fee covers distribution and returns to all corners of ireland.

Wild_Dogger

It amazes me how people constantly argue on behalf of the British retail giants

They have looked at us 'Tick Paddy's' and have taken us for mugs.

The terrible thing about it is that Irish people still accept it and pay the stupid prices

These retail giant have an objective :
To get as much money out of your pocket and put it into theirs.

If you pay these prices then you are subscribing to their objective

davo10

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

These retail giant have an objective :
To get as much money out of your pocket and put it into theirs.

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is the objective of all businesses the world over not just retail giants.

Quick lesson in economics, vendor wants to charge as much as possible, buyer wants to pay as little as possible and the market sets the rate somewhere in between.

Icepick

If the shirt is worth 59 to you, buy it. If not, don't. Nothing else matters.

davo10

Icepick wrote: »

If the shirt is worth 59 to you, buy it. If not, don't. Nothing else matters.

Exactly right, it's the value the market puts on an item, if its too high no one buys, if its too low the vendor makes no profit. The vendor puts a price on it , you decide if its worth it, if not don't buy it and move on.

Wild_Dogger

davo10 wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble but .......

You are not bursting my bubble if you are agreeing with me

Sorry to burst your bubble Davo

the groutch

they bought Roches Stores' non-food lockstock, including the contracts of a large amount of staff with 20+ years service, which are costing them an arm and a leg.

grenache

bladespin wrote: »

Not much of an excuse for more than 50% mark-up.

But it's only a 20% mark-up on the UK price? (€49 to €59)