Changing GP's

nino1

My friend decided that she wanted to change GP's. She was charged €50 per person for herself and her children to get her medical files!!
Am I right in saying that you are entitled to this information under the data protection act and there can only be a reasonable administration fee?
Anyone know if this is true and what the most is that they can charge?

RobFowl

nino1 wrote: »

My friend decided that she wanted to change GP's. She was charged €50 per person for herself and her children to get her medical files!!
Am I right in saying that you are entitled to this information under the data protection act and there can only be a reasonable administration fee?
Anyone know if this is true and what the most is that they can charge?

Allowed charge fee for copying files and paper etc. €50 does seem excessive but €10 per file seems standard. Many do not charge.

The Data protection act I think relates to this and allows a fee for costs assoscaited with printing/photocopying/paper etc but not to make a profit.

monkey8

RobFowl wrote: »

Allowed charge fee for copying files and paper etc. €50 does seem excessive but €10 per file seems standard. Many do not charge.

The Data protection act I think relates to this and allows a fee for costs assoscaited with printing/photocopying/paper etc but not to make a profit.

How could it possible cost anywhere near €10 to copy files?
It you had 5 members in the family that's €50 too.
If I was charged €10 I would ask for a breakdown of the fees for paper, photocopy etc and I'd love to see how they would come up with €10.

Alun

monkey8 wrote: »

How could it possible cost anywhere near €10 to copy files?
It you had 5 members in the family that's €50 too.
If I was charged €10 I would ask for a breakdown of the fees for paper, photocopy etc and I'd love to see how they would come up with €10.

What's (photo-)copying got to with it? There's no reason for the old GP to hang on to the records, or a copy of them, just hand them over. That's what happened in my case, cost €0.00 exactly.

drkpower

Alun wrote: »

What's (photo-)copying got to with it? There's no reason for the old GP to hang on to the records, or a copy of them, just hand them over. That's what happened in my case, cost €0.00 exactly.

The gp would be advised to keep a copy of the records in case of future legal proceeding s

trishasaffron

drkpower wrote: »

The gp would be advised to keep a copy of the records in case of future legal proceeding s

Surely at this stage the records are on computer and the old GP doesn't need to create a duplicate hard copy.

drkpower

trishasaffron wrote: »

Surely at this stage the records are on computer and the old GP doesn't need to create a duplicate hard copy.

I was replying to a suggestion re photocopying. But, yes, there is no need for a hard copy if they are on computer.mind you, even now, the occasional gp does have paper only records

username123

I changed GP last year and didnt bother bringing the old files.

I chatted to my pharmacist first and he reckoned that in this day and age people are clued in enough to be able to give a new doctor relevant info like if they are allergic to penicillin or if they have a history with something - most chronic histories will have seen a consultant anyway and there will be records elsewhere.

Also, a new GP can request info off an old GP if necessary - and I bet thats free!!

nino1

trishasaffron wrote: »

Surely at this stage the records are on computer and the old GP doesn't need to create a duplicate hard copy.

The gp told my friend that because the records are computerised that's why there is a high cost.
What's the exact procedure and costs involved in transferring computer records. I would have thought that those costs are close to zero,???

Tree

The time of the person creating the patient files for transfer needs to be taken into account too. If the computer files need to be extracted and turned into a portable data set then a) this takes some time and b) might involve purchasing of software which would also need to be paid for. €50 for a single file sounds like a lot, but €10 doesn't sound unreasonable.

RobFowl

Computerised records are not cheap !
The licencing fee for most GP software is over 2k a year and hardware costs are about 20k every 3 years.
It's old fashioned but most record transfers involve printing off the records and posting them.
I've been a dr for almost 20 years and have seen 1 electronic tranfer in that time (and that was on a floppy disc!!)

Just to reiterate i think €50 is excessive and although I siad €10 is standard not nessecarily saying it is justified.
Most Gp's tranfer records for free but they are allowed charge if they want to.

kdowling

Tree wrote: »

The time of the person creating the patient files for transfer needs to be taken into account too. If the computer files need to be extracted and turned into a portable data set then a) this takes some time and b) might involve purchasing of software which would also need to be paid for. €50 for a single file sounds like a lot, but €10 doesn't sound unreasonable.

Why should the patient pay for software that the GP should have installed?!!

Tree

Acquiring software can have a cost, just like rent/admin staff/heating, that needs to be factored into fees the same way other costs are.

El_Dangeroso

Under data protection legislation you are entitled to all this information for no more than 6.35 euro per person:

How do I request access to my details?

To request access to your details, send a letter or email to the organisation or person holding your personal details and ask them for a copy of this information. The details should be easy to understand and you should receive them within 40 days of your request. You may have to pay a small fee, but this cannot be higher than €6.35.
In your request you should:

give any details that will help the person to identify you and find your data – for example a customer account number, any previous address or your date of birth; and
be clear about which details you are looking for if you only want certain information. This will help the organisation or person respond more quickly.
Some sample wording appears below as a guide.


Dear Data Protection Officer,

Under the Data Protection Acts 1988 and 2003, I wish to make an access request for a copy of any information you keep about me, on computer or in manual form.

[My customer account number is ...]

[My date of birth is...]


[My previous address was....]


Yours faithfully,


[Name]

username123

Just to confirm the above post, from the data protection commissioners themselves!

pdf

opinion guy

Tree wrote: »

Acquiring software can have a cost, just like rent/admin staff/heating, that needs to be factored into fees the same way other costs are.

Why should the patient who decides to leave be charged for this and not the patients who stay ? That's just punishing a patient for leaving. IF you ae going to charge for it fine - but charge equally and fairly.

his_dudeness

kdowling wrote: »

Why should the patient pay for software that the GP should have installed?!!

Who else is going to pay for it? As RobFowl pointed out, it's expensive to run. And it's the HSE that remains the "owner" of all information kept on GMS patients, so maybe they should pay. 'cause we all know the HSE has loads of money.

There are multiple systems available and I don't know how well they interact. Unfortunatley it's not a case of just emailing it across to the other practice. Similar problem with Radiology and it's cock-up of a replacement NIMIS.



The Data Protection website and the Irish College of GPs have specific sections dealing with data protection and medical records, including the 6.35 charge per patient for records.

El_Dangeroso

his_dudeness wrote: »

Who else is going to pay for it? As RobFowl pointed out, it's expensive to run. And it's the HSE that remains the "owner" of all information kept on GMS patients, so maybe they should pay. 'cause we all know the HSE has loads of money.

There are multiple systems available and I don't know how well they interact. Unfortunatley it's not a case of just emailing it across to the other practice. Similar problem with Radiology and it's cock-up of a replacement NIMIS.



The Data Protection website and the Irish College of GPs have specific sections dealing with data protection and medical records, including the 6.35 charge per patient for records.

Do they?? Not so sure about that. The GP would be the data controller for all information that they collect. As far as I know the only data the HSE get are prescriptions.

RobFowl

AFAIK the GP "owns" the records. Whoever writes and owns/pays for the upkeep of the medium the records are stored under is the "owner".

My point re computer records is primarily that contrary to popular opinion they are not free or cheap and are used largely as they are more efficient than paper records as opposed to being cheaper.

El_Dangeroso

RobFowl wrote: »

AFAIK the GP "owns" the records. Whoever writes and owns/pays for the upkeep of the medium the records are stored under is the "owner".

My point re computer records is primarily that contrary to popular opinion they are not free or cheap and are used largely as they are more efficient than paper records as opposed to being cheaper.

Sorry to nitpick (really ) but wouldn't increased efficiency reduce costs? I can't imagine the manpower it would take to keep on top of a paper records system when it comes to accounting etc..

Software costs are high accross all sectors of healthcare, but they charge those prices because they know the alternative paper systems are way more labour intensive.

RobFowl

It reduces staffing costs in that you don't need to employ people to collect/organise etc records but then there is the cost of hardware and software which is the same if not more.

The efficiency comes in that multiple GP's can access recrds without them having to be physically moved, information is more up to date and easy to access (esp as results etc become compatable). Also there is less chance of records cecoming lost or misplaced!

The prescribing aspect of the software allows for reduced errors and highlights cross reactions/allergies much more clearly.