Gritting the road today - madness.

CiniO

I've seen very few gritting trucks in Ireland over last few years at all.
Probably it's because I mostly drive on country roads on the West, and I'm usually away from the country in the winter.

Anyway - I've seen one today morning (7am). On regional (R) road outside Westport.
I saw huge yellow flashing lights on the truck. When I got closer I realized it was a road gritter, spreading all over the road.

I must admit I couldn't believe my eyes, as this night was very mild - it was 7 degrees.
While for the last few nights there were some small frosts on car windscreens left in the morning, today there was none. Through all the night temperature didn't go belowe 5 degrees.

And this was early in the morning - before sunrise. After it got bright, temperature went even more upwards to about 8 to 9 degrees.

I completely can't understand a reason for gritting the road in such conditions.

Only reason I can think of, is that some private company has contract with county council for gritting the roads, and they are doing it even when not neccessary, to suck even more money from the council.

I must say that road gritter at 7 degrees just before it's meant to get warmer, is definitely the most strange thing I've seen this week so far.

FridaysWell

Ah sure a typical over reaction to the weather.

The council will be going mad when they actually might need that precious gritting salt.

joujoujou

I saw them gritters quite often last week while travelling from co. Roscommon through co. Mayo to Sligo (N5, N17, N4).

But it was late evening time - 11pm to midnight. :]

I'd say regional roads were not treated at all though. :P

Big Nasty

It's to hit zero tonight - that's freezing temperature. What does it matter what time the roads are gritted at once they get done?

joujoujou

Well, if roads were treated today morning it's more than likely all the salt and sand's gone already. :P

CiniO

MCMLXXV wrote: »

It's to hit zero tonight - that's freezing temperature. What does it matter what time the roads are gritted at once they get done?

You reckon that this morning's gritting would suffice for tonight? I strongly doubt there is anything left. All washed up with the rain.

Besides - this night is going to be mild again - above 5 I suppose. At least in the area where that gritting occured.

Pottler

MCMLXXV wrote: »

It's to hit zero tonight - that's freezing temperature. What does it matter what time the roads are gritted at once they get done?

Fair enough thread, here's the other sides view:) I run a gritting outfit, we're responsible for a big enough area being kept clear of ice, and we've a good bit spread already, reason being, the client tells us to.

If the phone rings and the person who issued the contract says spread, it gets spread. It would look good if I talked them out of it on the grounds of it not currently being freezing and then temperatures dropped and stuff stopped moving. I'd save some sacks of salt, but I probably get a different type of sack as well.

starviewadams

Out every day gritting here in Clondalkin.Truck goes by my place at 6.30pm every evening.

MadYaker

starviewadams wrote: »

Out every day gritting here in Clondalkin.Truck goes by my place at 6.30pm every evening.

But of course! You live in The Pale.

kneemos

They,re swimming in salt I'd say,trying to get rid of it.

goz83

MadYaker wrote: »

But of course! You live in The Pale.

And?

Henry Ford III

Wouldn't happen in Poland presumably?

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Wouldn't happen in Poland presumably?

Gritting at +7 degrees?
Shouldn't be happening anywhere...

CiniO

Pottler wrote: »

Fair enough thread, here's the other sides view:) I run a gritting outfit, we're responsible for a big enough area being kept clear of ice, and we've a good bit spread already, reason being, the client tells us to.

If the phone rings and the person who issued the contract says spread, it gets spread. It would look good if I talked them out of it on the grounds of it not currently being freezing and then temperatures dropped and stuff stopped moving. I'd save some sacks of salt, but I probably get a different type of sack as well.

So who is the person who decides "to grit" or "not to grit"?
Is is the county council employee?

unkel

Shure why would you grit on a Friday? Double pay on Saturday :cool:

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

feckers were out last night at 4am and was nowhere near cold enough for this crap. fecking throwing grit of the side of my car ...

but completely unnecessary regardless.

was in santry

Pottler

CiniO wrote: »

So who is the person who decides "to grit" or "not to grit"?
Is is the county council employee?

I do Industrial estates, we grit/salt the yards and roads. In the Councils case, it will be an assigned manager, whos phone will ring off the hook with complaints if it freezes and there's no grit spread. Can't win really.

101sean

Many years ago I worked for a big council in Kent and ran the gritting for a couple of years, get it wrong and yes, your phone would light up all day so you erred on the side of caution.

Various factors were taken into account plus gritting routes can be quite long with surprisingly wide temperature variations depending on topography, it's road surface temperature that's important, not air temp. It wasn't practical to do just bits of routes, you did the lot. I believe things have changed a lot in the UK with temperature mapping and more roadside weather monitoring helping plan things but get it wrong and the public will crucify you.

The forecast will also affect when you grit, it can be morning and/or evening and the amount of grit also varies between 10 and 40g/sqm, 40g is smothering the road.

Went out a couple of times riding shotgun with the gritters, bus routes on housing estates were amusing, 24t gritter setting off car alarms at 4am!

Roads in S Tipp seem to have been well gritted in the last week. Saw a brand new gritter with plough attached going through Clonmel last week, hope it's not a sign of things to come!

nicol

mayo only has 3 road temperature monitors so I'd say they were being cautious by gritting. better safe than sorry. as the previous poster said the monitors may have been reading as freezing.

ardmacha

We need one of these
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20559230

101sean

Looks like it's equipped to spread pre-wetted grit that makes it stick to the road. Normal grit can be wind or traffic blown in to the edge of the road reducing it's effectiveness, was a fairly new idea when I was involved.

The DOT in the UK had custom built 8x6 Foden gritters for the new motorway network back in the 60s. Most of the bigger authorities and their contractors have dedicated fleets of gritters and snowploughs while here most are tipper trucks with demountable gritting bodies.

The authority I worked for also equipped farmers with snowploughs for their tractors and paid them to clear rural routes in heavy snowfall, the gear was inspected annually to make sure it was still OK (and still existed!)

NIMAN

To be fair its been around -2 or -3 for the last 3 nights.

If they weren't gritting people would be complaining about them. They can't win.

Pottler

Another unconsidered thing is that the gritting gear has sat idle for months, salt eats machines btw, and it's better to give it a good long real world work out actually gritting when it's not "life or death" to see wether it works perfectly or not. You then have a chance to carry out some repairs before it's really needed flat out with no time for fixes. Ours has temp monitor onboard, and if it actually not at or near 0 or - , very little material is getting discharged tbh, the flow out is variable.

101sean

Been 12 years since I was involved with it (thank god :rolleyes:), new ideas were just coming along then.

Pottler

101sean wrote: »

Been 12 years since I was involved with it (thank god :rolleyes:), new ideas were just coming along then.

I actually like the work, it's nice to see a skating rink turned into a driveable surface. Also, when almost everyone else is sleeping, we're flat out still. Cold weather means ultra busy as a lot of hydraulic systems also freeze due to water in the older oil and we go through barrels of low temp oil changing out fluids in crucial systems. I have to confess I've never actually sat on the gritter:D but I like watching it work.. Artic lorries don't do well in icy conditions so they need a hand getting moving off loading bays etc, if they're not rolling, goods don't get to the shops etc, so I look on it as worthwhile work.

101sean

The crews loved the overtime especially when the snow pound coins fell from the sky! I used it as an excuse to do inspections and play in my Land Rover but it was still a lot of hassle despite having a team of very patient women to field the calls from the public.

Pottler

101sean wrote: »

The crews loved the overtime especially when the snow pound coins fell from the sky! I used it as an excuse to do inspections and play in my Land Rover but it was still a lot of hassle despite having a team of very patient women to field the calls from the public.

hah, I do tend to do a lot of "looking out the window of my jeep to make sure it's being done correctly" as well!.

Mint Sauce

Must be huge varables in the west/north-west then OP. I was driving home last night in freezing fog, 7.30 this morning I needed the de-icer.

Matt Simis

CiniO wrote: »

Besides - this night is going to be mild again - above 5 I suppose. At least in the area where that gritting occured.

Over +5c tonight?!
You must live in an unusually warm micro climate, as here (as I type) is 0.7c and dropping with an "Apparent Temp" of -2.1. Dew Point is -1.6.
http://weather.netcessible.com/

Thats midnight temps, likely to continue dropping for about 7hrrs till daybreak. Granted thats not exceptionally low temps, but the ground is very wet and will certainly turn to ice.

24hrs ago low temp was -1.7c at 00:08..

CiniO

Matt Simis wrote: »

Over +5c tonight?!
You must live in an unusually warm micro climate, as here (as I type) is 0.7c and dropping with an "Apparent Temp" of -2.1. Dew Point is -1.6.
http://weather.netcessible.com/

Thats midnight temps, likely to continue dropping for about 7hrrs till daybreak. Granted thats not exceptionally low temps, but the ground is very wet and will certainly turn to ice.

24hrs ago low temp was -1.7c at 00:08..

At the moment 6 degrees outside my house.
Hence thought that I live on the other side of the country.
By the ocean it's nearly always warmer than inlands.

joujoujou

Currently +3 at co.Mayo/co.Roscommon border and rising very slowly.

CiniO wrote: »

At the moment 6 degrees outside my house.
[...]

How close to your house is temperature sensor placed?

Matt Simis

CiniO wrote: »

At the moment 6 degrees outside my house.
Hence thought that I live on the other side of the country.
By the ocean it's nearly always warmer than inlands.

Other side? I live in the Middle of the country, every side is the other side.. :P
I guess they simply dont localise the gritting to the degree you want, but on a national level its the right time for sure.

CiniO

joujoujou wrote: »

Currently +3 at co.Mayo/co.Roscommon border and rising very slowly.

That's possible. But Mayo/Roscommon border is inlands.

How close to your house is temperature sensor placed?

Trust me. My measurements are good.
It really is 6 degrees in here. And it really was 7 in the morning where I saw a gritting truck.

CiniO

Matt Simis wrote: »

Other side? I live in the Middle of the country, every side is the other side.. :P
I guess they simply dont localise the gritting to the degree you want, but on a national level its the right time for sure.

Sorry but for me Meath is on the East side


On national level possibly.
But I still can't see a point in gritting on a warm morning without any forecast for getting colder, just because 200km away there are frosts.

joujoujou

CiniO wrote: »

[...]

Trust me. My measurements are good.
[...]

It's not a matter of trust.

Just answer the question. :P

Pottler

joujoujou wrote: »

It's not a matter of trust.

Just answer the question. :P

You can't handle the truth!

The Royal Scam

CiniO wrote: »

So who is the person who decides "to grit" or "not to grit"?
Is is the county council employee?

Maybe you should check your local councils very detailed Service Plan / Winter Driving information, instead of doubting the legitimacy of their work/ decision making.

http://www.mayococo.ie/en/News/WinterDrivingInfo/

joujoujou

Pottler wrote: »

You can't handle the truth!

Wanna bet?

CiniO

joujoujou wrote: »

It's not a matter of trust.

Just answer the question. :P

I've got two thermomethres outside the house (north and south).
I've got outside temperature sensors in both cars.
I've got a thermometre outside my shed.

All 5 showed 6 degrees yesterday.


Thermometres outside the house are attached to the house, so it's about 1 maybe 2cm away from the actual building

I hope this answers your question.

CiniO

The Royal Scam wrote: »

Maybe you should check your local councils very detailed Service Plan / Winter Driving information, instead of doubting the legitimacy of their work/ decision making.

http://www.mayococo.ie/en/News/WinterDrivingInfo/

Thanks for the link

4.2 The weather forecast information as well as the weather station measurements
are available to the On Call Duty Engineer. Duty Engineers have access to 5
weather stations in County Mayo as well as 4 other weather stations in
neighbouring counties.
4.3 The Duty Engineer will review the forecast information each day (usually
available at 2.30pm). The Duty Engineer will then make and record the treatment
decisions for the following 24 hours.
4.4 The winter service operation is a planned response and late changes are not
possible to implement as there is no on-call arrangement with winter service
crews. Events requiring late changes are rare.

IMHO that's not great.
On duty engineer decides once a day at 2:30 for next 24 hours and then no changes really possible after that.

Weather change faster than that, and predictions are not that precise.
IMHO system is not good.

djimi

Better safe than sorry, surely? Personally Id prefer a road to be gritted unnecessarily than to see one not gritted when it is frozen.

Although I agree, if they were out in the morning time when it was not frozen and not likely to be then that is just a waste. Though I have to say in all my years or driving or otherwise I have never seen a gritter operate in the morning time unless its snowing or otherwise sudden or extreme conditions, so quite what they were at is beyond me (unless they are working off some information that there was to be a sudden drop in temperature, for whatever reason?)