why is our stove/boiler so ****e?

bugsntinas

i was under the impression that when we had our multi fuel stove/boiler installed we would get to the point where we'd need to start opening windows to cool down but so far i am far from impressed.when we had oil the rads were piping hot when on but now they are only warm.the pipe from the top of the boiler is usually very hot but the rads aren't would anyone have any suggestions?the stove is called an "olive" it is 10kw and stated for 6 rads which we have.there is a pump in the lower pipe and the hot press cylinder is above the boiler on the first floor.i beleive the cylinder is vented,seperate tank in the loft next to the water tank.the stove was installed 2 day ago by a very competant plumber who seems to know alot about the stoves and there installation.

corkgsxr

List the rads you have?

Btw 10kw is tiny for heating radiators

MrThrifty

10k seems tiny alright... You sure the pump is working?! Anyway, best to get the plumber back in to sort the issue - should have commissioned the system with installation of new stove in any case...

jimjimt

When a stove manufacture says it can heat x number of radiators the radiator size is a 900mm x 500mm single.
So your stove can heat 6 x 900mm x 500mm single radiators. Also your hot water cylinder. The stove also has to heat pipe work.
This will vary slightly from different manufactures. But it is a good rule of thumb.

corkgsxr

jimjimt wrote: »

When a stove manufacture says it can heat x number of radiators the radiator size is a 900mm x 500mm single.
So your stove can heat 6 x 900mm x 500mm single radiators. Also your hot water cylinder. The stove also has to heat pipe work.
This will vary slightly from different manufactures. But it is a good rule of thumb.

Thought it was 1000x500 single.

Add a cylinder and your down to 3-4 rads.

Also had a look and it's 6kw to water.


I think if you want proper heating to water you need a 18-20 kw stove.

Cedrus

What are you burning?

If your are using kiln dried hardwood and paying a premium price for same, it appears you have a design/installation problem.

If you are buying "Baffling Bargain" "Amazing Value" "Full Trailer load only €35" unseasoned softwood as Firewood, then it is an Operator Issue.

jimjimt

Thought it was 1000x500 single.

Add a cylinder and your down to 3-4 rads.

Also had a look and it's 6kw to water.


I think if you want proper heating to water you need a 18-20 kw stove.

All very true. It does vary slightly from different manufactures.

Also if the overall stove output is 10kw and 80% efficient 2kw of heat will go up the chimney so you are left with 8 kw of output to room and boiler.

I fitted a 20 kw Henley this week and working a dream.

bugsntinas

Cedrus wrote: »

What are you burning?

If your are using kiln dried hardwood and paying a premium price for same, it appears you have a design/installation problem.

If you are buying "Baffling Bargain" "Amazing Value" "Full Trailer load only €35" unseasoned softwood as Firewood, then it is an Operator Issue.

we are using softwood,5 bags for €20,coal which i don't think is the best quality and a few briquettes.i think tomorrow we'll buy a good bag of coal and more briquettes and leave out the wood and see how that goes.

as for stove size we could only afford the above so if it's under powered we'll have to live with it although the plumber said it should do the job ok.

corkgsxr

Measure your rads and I'll tell ya the input needed

shane0007

Might be better to measure the room sizes/design room temperatures/associated design parameters to determine the rads sizes required and then size the boiler, taking into account efficiency & system losses, etc.

jimjimt

For a quick test turn of 2 of the biggest rads and see does that improve the heat to the other 4.

Cedrus

bugsntinas wrote: »

we are using softwood,5 bags for €20

This is fine for people who are running central heating and just want a pretty fire in the sitting room, but it will have a low calorific value, sometimes, it's so wet it almost has a negative value.

bugsntinas wrote: »

coal which i don't think is the best quality and a few briquettes.i think tomorrow we'll buy a good bag of coal and more briquettes and leave out the wood and see how that goes..

Bituminous Coal will provide a high calorific boost but you need to be sure that your stove can handle the heat generated, it will also tend to soot up the glass, the exchanger surfaces and the chimney, these can spoil the pretty flames as well as the heat transfer through the jacket.

Turf is roughly the same as softwood, imho forget it, loads of ash too.

bugsntinas

corkgsxr wrote: »

Measure your rads and I'll tell ya the input needed

room 1 = approx 16ftx12ftx7ft.1 double rad about 3ft.
room 2 = approx 16ftx10ftx7ft.1 single rad about 2ft.
room 3 = approx 6ftx4ftx7ft.1 single rad about 3ft.
upstairs room 1 = approx 7ftx6ft.1 single rad 2ft
upstairs room 2 = approx 6ftx 5ft.1 single rad 2ft
upstairs room 3 = approx 9ftx 16ft.1 single rad 3ft.
all sizes are approx as i've lost me tape measure.


Bituminous Coal will provide a high calorific boost but you need to be sure that your stove can handle the heat

where can ya get this type of coal?

jimjimt

As you said earlier you have what you have installed and have to make the most of it.

To be honest the radiators sizes you gave should not be a over burden on the stove.

The simplest test for you to do is to light the stove for a couple of hours. Turn of half the radiators and see does half the radiators heat in full. If so turn on another and find the limit of your stove capabilities.

I presume there is a pipe thermostat somewhere ?

What is it set at ?

Maybe turn it down and send more heat to the radiators.

The best fuel for stoves is a mixture of fuels. Coal and timber. The secret to timber is to have it season and dry.
A mixture of hard and soft wood is the best. A bit of dry soft wood in along with coal or hard wood keeps the fire burning.

You should have got a manual with your stove. Have a look at what the manual recommends for fuel. Be carful with all coal has I have seen plenty of stoves and plaster crack with excess heat.

bugsntinas

jimjimt wrote: »

As you said earlier you have what you have installed and have to make the most of it.

To be honest the radiators sizes you gave should not be a over burden on the stove.

The simplest test for you to do is to light the stove for a couple of hours. Turn of half the radiators and see does half the radiators heat in full. If so turn on another and find the limit of your stove capabilities.

I presume there is a pipe thermostat somewhere ?

What is it set at ?

Maybe turn it down and send more heat to the radiators.

The best fuel for stoves is a mixture of fuels. Coal and timber. The secret to timber is to have it season and dry.
A mixture of hard and soft wood is the best. A bit of dry soft wood in along with coal or hard wood keeps the fire burning.

You should have got a manual with your stove. Have a look at what the manual recommends for fuel. Be carful with all coal has I have seen plenty of stoves and plaster crack with excess heat.

thanks for the reply.i'll try the turning off rads tomorrow as it's getting a little chilly now:mad:.
the plumber put a thermostat on the "out feed" from the boiler and he set it at 50,is that too high or not high enough?
we've just bought €200 of timber which was a bit damp so i'll have to dig out some of the old dry stuff.

jimjimt

Set at 50 degree's.

It is hard to say. All depends on how far away the pipe stat it is from the stove.

If it was set too high your stove would start to make noise and over heat. You would know not a pleasant sound.

Also if your hot water is not hot enough you could turn it to 55 and see how that works.
If hot water is too hot turn it down to 45.

Adjust in small steps.

bugsntinas

the thermostat is about a foot from the edge of the stove.
i wish our water was too hot:rolleyes:i'll turn it up to 55 and leave it at that for a bit and see what happens.
thanks again for the help/advice.

jimjimt

If it is only a foot away you should be able to turn it to at least 70.

But do so in small steps just to make sure all is ok.

Dtp79

bugsntinas wrote: »

i was under the impression that when we had our multi fuel stove/boiler installed we would get to the point where we'd need to start opening windows to cool down but so far i am far from impressed.when we had oil the rads were piping hot when on but now they are only warm.the pipe from the top of the boiler is usually very hot but the rads aren't would anyone have any suggestions?the stove is called an "olive" it is 10kw and stated for 6 rads which we have.there is a pump in the lower pipe and the hot press cylinder is above the boiler on the first floor.i beleive the cylinder is vented,seperate tank in the loft next to the water tank.the stove was installed 2 day ago by a very competant plumber who seems to know alot about the stoves and there installation.

I'm assuming that the stove is the only source of heat for your house now?? Is the old oil boiler still connected to the system? Is it a single coil cyclinder?

markbld65

have a stanley erin stve installed 2 weeks ago and its t-shirts here, plumber took a good while to fit the whole system he explained every step its a fully independent system from our oil system, the pump is right beside the cylinder in the ht-press right above the boiler similiar to your system

we are burning coal and wood and the house is toasty can not believe it, 13 rads no problem

one thing the plumber did mention was how the system is installed a lot just do a quick install and dont take the time to do a proper job

celiam

markbld65 wrote: »

have a stanley erin stve installed 2 weeks ago and its t-shirts here, plumber took a good while to fit the whole system he explained every step its a fully independent system from our oil system, the pump is right beside the cylinder in the ht-press right above the boiler similiar to your system

we are burning coal and wood and the house is toasty can not believe it, 13 rads no problem

one thing the plumber did mention was how the system is installed a lot just do a quick install and dont take the time to do a proper job

i wish i could say the same about my erin stove. We have 8 rads 2 doubles and 6 singles and they get warm but never hot. i need to turn off the pump so that water is hot enough for showers. i must be doing something wrong because i am not getting the output i expected from the stove.

jimjimt

celiam wrote: »

i wish i could say the same about my erin stove. We have 8 rads 2 doubles and 6 singles and they get warm but never hot. i need to turn off the pump so that water is hot enough for showers. i must be doing something wrong because i am not getting the output i expected from the stove.

Is the pump wired to a pipe stat ?

Where is the pipe stat located ?

Forward pictures of the install.

Dtp79

jimjimt wrote: »

Is the pump wired to a pipe stat ?

Where is the pipe stat located ?

Forward pictures of the install.

Also is it a dual system?

gdavis

have the 4 connections been used in these installs,if not is there at least an injector tee installed

celiam

jimjimt wrote: »

Is the pump wired to a pipe stat ?

Where is the pipe stat located ?

Forward pictures of the install.

yes the pump is wired to the pipe stat and the pipe stat is located in the cupboard beside the stove and behind that cupboard is the hot press where the pump is (see pics)It is a three coil tank(oil,stove and solar panels)Open system DSCF1719.JPG

DSCF1717.JPG

Dtp79

celiam wrote: »

yes the pump is wired to the pipe stat and the pipe stat is located in the cupboard beside the stove and behind that cupboard is the hot press where the pump is (see pics)It is a three coil tank(oil,stove and solar panels)Open system DSCF1719.JPG

DSCF1717.JPG

Take more pics of the pipework in the hotpress if u can. It's possible that the non return valve on the oil side is missing or passing. Therefore when your solid fuel pump is working its dumping a load of heat into the oil boiler and not to your rads. Next time your stove is working, after a couple of hours go to your oil boiler and feel the pipework at it top and bottom. If its warm that's the problem!

celiam

Dtp79 wrote: »

Take more pics of the pipework in the hotpress if u can. It's possible that the non return valve on the oil side is missing or passing. Therefore when your solid fuel pump is working its dumping a load of heat into the oil boiler and not to your rads. Next time your stove is working, after a couple of hours go to your oil boiler and feel the pipework at it top and bottom. If its warm that's the problem!

yes DTP79 the top pipe going into the oil boiler is warm when stove pump is on, do I need to put a non return valve on that? Thanks for you help.Will post more pics of pipework later my computer is on a go slow at the moment (virus i think)

demanufactured

celiam wrote: »

yes DTP79 the top pipe going into the oil boiler is warm when stove pump is on, do I need to put a non return valve on that? Thanks for you help.Will post more pics of pipework later my computer is on a go slow at the moment (virus i think)

Yep their should be a non return valve on the flow pipe from the oil burner. ..to only allow water out of the flow and not back in.

Dtp79

celiam wrote: »

yes DTP79 the top pipe going into the oil boiler is warm when stove pump is on, do I need to put a non return valve on that? Thanks for you help.Will post more pics of pipework later my computer is on a go slow at the moment (virus i think)

Yes you'll need a non return valve I think. Generally goes in front of the pump depending on how it's piped

bugsntinas

we're learning to live with the fact ours is underpowered.it is the only source of heat in the house now and i'm regretting not sticking to the oil.i have a couple of questions if someone could answer them.wold i be right in assuming that if the water supply is cut off i can't use the stove?
can the hot water from the stove be stopped from heating the hot water cylinder so it just goes to the rads?i ask the later as the pipe from the stove with the hot water is very hot as it is set at 70 and the water in the hot water cylinder isn't being used so seems a waste.would it make the rads hotter by anychance?

Dtp79

bugsntinas wrote: »

we're learning to live with the fact ours is underpowered.it is the only source of heat in the house now and i'm regretting not sticking to the oil.i have a couple of questions if someone could answer them.wold i be right in assuming that if the water supply is cut off i can't use the stove?
can the hot water from the stove be stopped from heating the hot water cylinder so it just goes to the rads?i ask the later as the pipe from the stove with the hot water is very hot as it is set at 70 and the water in the hot water cylinder isn't being used so seems a waste.would it make the rads hotter by anychance?

You can use your stove if there is a water outage. As long as there's water in your small tank in attic. Just turn your stat to 45/50 and the pump will run more often. Your rads should heat better

Cedrus

bugsntinas wrote: »

wold i be right in assuming that if the water supply is cut off i can't use the stove?

If you have a header tank you should be able to use the stove when the mains is off, but you'd need to be careful how much water you're drawing off.

bugsntinas wrote: »

can the hot water from the stove be stopped from heating the hot water cylinder so it just goes to the rads?i ask the later as the pipe from the stove with the hot water is very hot as it is set at 70 and the water in the hot water cylinder isn't being used so seems a waste.would it make the rads hotter by anychance?

This depends how your system is piped, in the event of pump failure there needs to be a place where the heat can go since you can't just have a thermostat turn off the stove like you can with oil or gas. Often (usually?) the cylinder is the heat sink, sometimes the rads and the cylinder and less often just the rads form the heat sink. If the cylinder is all or part of your heatsink then you cannot disconnect it.

I once saw the aftermath of a range boiler that had overheated because the heat could not dissipate, there were bits of cast iron embedded in all four walls of the kitchen.

anyanswers

Hi all.looking for some advise..im planing on putting in a boiler stove.was just wonder if I put in a 20 kw boru boiler stove to heat 8 single rads in a semi detached house..as iv heard,id prefer to put in a bigger stove than is needed incase I decide to changee rads to doubles..would it damage the stove on 8 single rads..

dathi

buro stove is 77% efficient so your 20kwh stove will need 25.9 kwh of fuel burnt for that output . as wood contains 5.3 kwh per kilogram you would have to burn 4.9 kilograms of wood every hour for that output . similarly coal 7.3kwh per kilo so 3.5 kilograms every hour to get max output.

tazywaz

Can any one tell me how much I should expect to pay for installation of a 20kw boiler stove into a bungalow? I need a twinwall flue and want to link it with the existing backboiler/gas heating system.:)