Half v Full in getting faster - would appreciate advice please

kit3

Looking for a bit of advice please. Brief background – female, 45, ‘running’ for 3.5 years. In that time I’ve done 10 half marathons and DCM twice. My half times ranged from an initial 2 hr 30 to a pb of 2hr 10mins, DCM times were 4:59 for 2011 and 4:29 for 2012. I’m looking to improve these times – never done any speed work so this is one obvious way to start.

My question really is about what I should target next year. I plan to do the Bohermeen half in March and DCM in October. I’m also going to target a distance in Kildare and this is where I’m not sure what to do. Would I benefit more by trying to target a fast half in Kildare or by doing the full ? Part of me feels that it would be good to get the miles in the legs and another part of me feels that it would be better approaching DCM with a faster half time ? Hope this makes sense.

Sorry for the long post but would really appreciate your views on this one. C

walshb

Do you believe you have better times in you?

45 and almost 4 years going. It isn't going to be easy to improve. Age is a key factor. Not saying you won't, but it gets harder when you are older.

Sure, a 45 year old starting out will probably get better and better until a certain age, but you stared aged 41 or so. Can you keep improving?

RayCun

after only four years, sure. It depends on the training kit3 is doing, how much more can she do?

To answer the original question, I would be inclined to run a half in the spring, not a full. That leaves more room to work on your speed, while with a marathon you'll be concentrating on distance.

kit3

walshb wrote: »

Do you believe you have better times in you?

45 and almost 4 years going. It isn't going to be easy to improve. Age is a key factor. Not saying you won't, but it gets harder when you are older.

Sure, a 45 year old starting out will probably get better and better until a certain age, but you stared aged 41 or so. Can you keep improving?

I should probably have added that I have never been properly consistent - a thing I intend to address now ! I hope I have better times in me and will try to achieve them but if I don't it's not the end of the world - it's just me competing against myself and I intend to enjoy trying.

kit3

RayCun wrote: »

after only four years, sure. It depends on the training kit3 is doing, how much more can she do?

To answer the original question, I would be inclined to run a half in the spring, not a full. That leaves more room to work on your speed, while with a marathon you'll be concentrating on distance.

Thanks Ray - my gut instinct was leading me that way too !

jcsmum

Would you consider joining a running club? Great for helping to increase speed. Our club has lots of 40+ female members.

walshb

kit3 wrote: »

I should probably have added that I have never been properly consistent - a thing I intend to address now ! I hope I have better times in me and will try to achieve them but if I don't it's not the end of the world - it's just me competing against myself and I intend to enjoy trying.

You certainly have the passion. That too is a factor. Just that all the effort over the last 4 years and us all getting older must really impact our legs and speed. I know I am not as fast as I was when I was 30. I am 36 now, and I know that no matter what effort I put in I cannot compete against my youth. Best of luck with your efforts. I hope you do shade your times.

tHE vAGGABOND

it's just me competing against myself and I intend to enjoy trying

+1 million!

So many people here [and everywhere] totally forget that and its such a vitally important point. Unless your really one of the few top class folks out there, your competing against yourself and enjoying that battle is important as why bother if you dont enjoy it

Me, I have not run a 5k in a year in a half, so Im going to be trying to take down that PB over the next few weeks. RayCun there, can run a couple of minutes quicker than me, but I dont give a monkeys, as Im not running against him, Im running against me from Dunore 18 months ago :pac:

Clearlier

If you have never done any speed work before why not target a 10k in the spring, a half in the autumn and a full marathon next spring?

P.S. Laughed out loud at the thought that you couldn't improve. I'd be astonished if you couldn't get under 2 hours for a half.

Enduro

Ignore Walshb. If you're aiming for improving you're Marathon time then there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to if you dedicate youself to the task with a good plan. As others have said joining a running club would probably do you a lot of good, as you'll more than likely meet others with similar aims. It will also help you to get some structure and a bit of discipline into your training.

In the end it all comes down to putting in the groundwork (training) to get the reward. (But that reward isn't just improved PBs, its also being fitter, faster and healthier, and probably happier as a result!). If you're prepared to do that then you should be able to make steady improvements

walshb

Enduro wrote: »

Ignore Walshb.

So when do you think that a person starts to regress?

Never said the lady could not improve her times.

RayCun

It depends.
If you start running at 20, train to your maximum all the time, then you will be slower at 40 than 30, slower at 50 than 40.
But it takes time to reach your physical peak, and the amount of time it takes will depend on the training you put in. So age alone will not tell you when someone is going to start to regress.

Enduro

walshb wrote: »

So when do you think that a person starts to regress?

Depends on a lot of factors, as Ray says. The target distance is another factor. People have won olympic marathon medals in their fourties (IIRC). A friend of mine set a world record when he was over 50 in a much longer event.

walshb

RayCun wrote: »

It depends.
If you start running at 20, train to your maximum all the time, then you will be slower at 40 than 30, slower at 50 than 40.
But it takes time to reach your physical peak, and the amount of time it takes will depend on the training you put in. So age alone will not tell you when someone is going to start to regress.

Agree fully. Just that in this case the lady is almost 4 years in. Starting at 41. 45 now. In general she is at an age where age is likely a factor.

My mate is 35 next year. Ran a 2.49 martathon first time this year. Been running a lot for the past two years or so. He wants to lower that time next year. I am sure he will with dedication. But, I wonder will he keep bettering that time into his late 30s and early 40s. I doubt it. The will and passion may be there, the effort too in training, but the legs just aren't what they were when younger.

Anyway, your post was a whole lot better than "Ignore Walshb."

ultraman1

having run behind u for 4 1/2 hrs afew weeks ago ,theres no reason why u cant blow ur times out of the water,bit of faster training as prescribed above and ul be flying,,,if u can rember how easy we were chatting at mile 23 in dublin u deffo had it inyou to go faster on that day...must of been the recipes that were slowin down

walshb

Enduro wrote: »

Depends on a lot of factors, as Ray says. The target distance is another factor. People have won olympic marathon medals in their fourties (IIRC). A friend of mine set a world record when he was over 50 in a much longer event.

But, I wonder what times the person would have set in his 30s had he been competing in the same events as when he was over 50? That is my point.

His WR time when over 50. You reckon that he could have been faster had he committed to the attempt years earlier?

Enduro

walshb wrote: »

Anyway, your post was a whole lot better than "Ignore Walshb."

You're advice was negative, and in my opinion completely irrelevant to someone whith the OP's background and targets. Ignoring it completely is the very best thing she could do. Everyone else seems to think so too, judging from the responses

walshb

I was simply trying to be realsitic. I also encouraged and praised. Her age just stuck out for me, and that is why I asked if an improvement was possible. Knowing that she is 4 years in at this stage I felt that she could may well have hit a peak.

Enduro

walshb wrote: »

But, I wonder what times the person would have set in his 30s had he been competing in the same events as when he was over 50? That is my point.

His WR time when over 50. You reckon that he could have been faster had he committed to the attempt years earlier?

All irrelevant to the OP, isn't it, considering she started running in her fourties. You're point is completely irrelevant to this thread.

The answer to the second question is possibly, but probably not. His times over the event improved with age, not unexpectedly.

You're points would be good and valid for someone who has been training well for years looking to improve their sprint/middle distance times, but get more and more irrelevant as you move beyond those narrow parameters.

Itziger

Here's my tuppence worth. For sure you can still improve. It's up to you and the amount of effort you're willing to put in to training. Age wise and number of years running, I'm not very different to you. I've run about 8 half m.'s and 4 full. Every one of em have been pb's. Ok, day will come soon enough when that record is broken, but I'd like to think the marathon time especially will still come down. It takes years to learn to run a full I believe.

I see also that you were quite comfortable for the DC marathon from pacer's comments above.

As for the original, "which should I do" question, I find a very simple way to approach the year is - 10k race, a half (or 2), marathon (or 2).
This year I've done March 10k, May Half, June Half, October marathon, November marathon. Not saying that's gonna suit you but building up the mileage over the year seems to work for me. Good luck with it.

Enduro

Some inspiration

Itziger

Enduro wrote: »

Some inspiration

Wow, thanks man. A 10 yr old girl beats me by 10 seconds for the marathon. Confidence booster if ever there was one.

ger664

Kit

And having ran with u the year before you can definitely improve. Age is not a barrier, I'm 46 been at it for 5 years now and I took well over 4 mins off my Half PB in Sixmilebridge 2 weeks ago.

kit3

ultraman1 wrote: »

having run behind u for 4 1/2 hrs afew weeks ago ,theres no reason why u cant blow ur times out of the water,bit of faster training as prescribed above and ul be flying,,,if u can rember how easy we were chatting at mile 23 in dublin u deffo had it inyou to go faster on that day...must of been the recipes that were slowin down

Maybe I should have had the chocolate cake instead of the gels :rolleyes: Thanks for the vote of confidence - don't think I could have done much more this year, legs were on the verge of cramping for the last 3 miles. However, I'm sure these ancient decrepit legs have a bit more in them.

kit3

Enduro wrote: »

Some inspiration

There's hope for me yet A lot of ancient legs running well there !

kit3

ger664 wrote: »

Kit

And having ran with u the year before you can definitely improve. Age is not a barrier, I'm 46 been at it for 5 years now and I took well over 4 mins off my Half PB in Sixmilebridge 2 weeks ago.

Thanks Ger. Well done on the PB, especially considering the interruption to your training recently.

kit3

Thanks for the replies everyone. Im going to stick with the half in Kildare and give it a good go. Think this will give me a better base going into DCM. Must say I put in the age as a 'by the way' - didn't expect it to be a focus :eek: I'm not and never have been hung up on my age. Slow as I am, I am so so much fitter and healthier now than I was 20 years ago. Think these ancient legs have a bit more to give

Enduro

Itziger wrote: »

Wow, thanks man. A 10 yr old girl beats me by 10 seconds for the marathon. Confidence booster if ever there was one.

Oops!

Bungy Girl

walshb wrote: »

Her age just stuck out for me, and that is why I asked if an improvement was possible. Knowing that she is 4 years in at this stage I felt that she could may well have hit a peak.

Highly unlikely that the OP has hit a peak after only 4 years and, as she says herself, inconsistent training. With a proper training programme and the (mostly :rolleyes:) sensible advice here on boards there's no reason why she won't continue to improve for many years. The key will be to train smart and stay injury free. I'm a similar age and have been running for about 7 years. This year I trained well and consistently and ran PBs in several distances from 1 mile up to half marathon. I don't think I'm ready for the scrapheap yet .

OP, best of luck with your training. If it were me I'd do more of the shorter races and just the one marathon. And you could read some of the training logs on here to get inspiration from runners (of all ages!).

ecoli

@kit3: I agree with what people are saying. Age is not as much of a factor as training age and the truth be told people coming late to the sport very rarely get to the level where degeneration is the hindering fact. The fact that you are only running four years and have yet to get the consistent training in means there is plenty of room for improvement.

My advice around the approach would to try possibly build to marathon mileage for the Kildare half. Rather than put most of the emphasis on the long run however I would try spread this mileage over the course of the week. This mileage should stand to you for the half in terms of running a quicker time but also provide a great platform for the full. Just be sure to listen to the body and not do too much too quick

martyboy48

Enduro wrote: »

Some inspiration

However impressed I am with the 'oldies' times, I'm blown away by the times set by the young uns.. Phenominal... Side note, wonder how much pressure was put on them training wise by parents/coaches ect?? Top 10 women aren't even teenagers :eek::eek: A debate for another day perhaps....

Younganne

hi Kit3,
of course you can improve.:D sure you're only a youngwan;)

can i recommed that you start a training log and put up a weekly training plan and then you will have to foolow it, but the fact that you'd be logging the training will help you get the consistency going.

There also the graduate class of DCM 2012 where you could follow Menos weekly training .....
i have improved over the last 4 yrs and in the past year its from following weekly plans and adding the speed work & intervals after DCM11 from this thread, you were there for a while, but the class seems to have all graduated and flown the nest:D.....

Best of luck and looking forward to seeing all the improvement!!;)

Marthastew

Kit, congrats on your PB in DCM:)
I've a very similar background to you in terms of age and amount of years running so I may as well chip in here:)
Speedwork can seem scary and confusing if you have never added it into your marathon plan but when I eventually did add it I wondered what all the fuss was about;) I also began to improve my times at all distances so you will see great benefits.

To echo what many of the previous posters have said

• Maybe join a club?
• If that's not possible pick a structured training plan and do your best to stick with it. If injuries are a worry err on the side of a lower mileage plan.
• I also think you might benefit from following a shorter distance plan in the meantime and aim for a 5K and a 5 mile/10K before the Bohermeen Half
• When I first started a log I thought I was doing so to keep me honest but I have gotten some wonderful advice and encouragement so I'd definitely recommend you do so also.

kit3

Younganne wrote: »

hi Kit3,
of course you can improve.:D sure you're only a youngwan;)

can i recommed that you start a training log and put up a weekly training plan and then you will have to foolow it, but the fact that you'd be logging the training will help you get the consistency going.

There also the graduate class of DCM 2012 where you could follow Menos weekly training .....
i have improved over the last 4 yrs and in the past year its from following weekly plans and adding the speed work & intervals after DCM11 from this thread, you were there for a while, but the class seems to have all graduated and flown the nest:D.....

Best of luck and looking forward to seeing all the improvement!!;)

Thanks Anne - great advice as usual. Don't think I'll go as far as a log for now - would bore the pants off anyone !

kit3

Marthastew wrote: »

Kit, congrats on your PB in DCM:)
I've a very similar background to you in terms of age and amount of years running so I may as well chip in here:)
Speedwork can seem scary and confusing if you have never added it into your marathon plan but when I eventually did add it I wondered what all the fuss was about;) I also began to improve my times at all distances so you will see great benefits.

To echo what many of the previous posters have said

• Maybe join a club?
• If that's not possible pick a structured training plan and do your best to stick with it. If injuries are a worry err on the side of a lower mileage plan.
• I also think you might benefit from following a shorter distance plan in the meantime and aim for a 5K and a 5 mile/10K before the Bohermeen Half
• When I first started a log I thought I was doing so to keep me honest but I have gotten some wonderful advice and encouragement so I'd definitely recommend you do so also.

Thanks MS. Will definately pick a structured plan and stick to it although at the moment I'm laid up with a chest and sinus infection so no running for me. At the moment the height of my ambition is to be able to sleep lying down - long way from training plans ! Getting the niggles sorted though so hope to be ready to roll once I've shifted this thing.