Spanish Flight Schools

cuterob

I was looking at various different flight schools.. seems to be a few in Spain but the price difference between some is crazy.. could anyone shine any info on as to why this is? like Ibertour have a full course from 0 hours to airline license for 40k with accommodation while Jerez has the same for 105k with accommodation and 3 meals a day.. are they feeding their students gold crusted steaks? I know some are more well known and Ibertour is 18 month modular compared to what I presume Jerez is integrated but couldn't be much shorter than 18 months altogether?

If anyone has more knowledge on this that can shed some light it would be much appreciated as it is a route I'm thinking of looking into down the line some time..thanks

bluecode

Ah you're comparing apples and oranges or using your analogy, hamburgers and steak.

FTE is not so much a Spanish flight school, but a British one in sunny Spain. It has an international reputation and airlines from all over send their cadets there for training including our own Aer Lingus. It was originally set up by British Aerospace.

Ibertours on the other hand, well I know nothing about it. But it's Spanish. Spanish flight schools have a spotty reputation. Some are good and some shouldn't be allowed to stay in business. More than one graduate of a Spanish school when assessed has been found to lack even basic skills.

Not saying that Ibertours are anything but a reputable flight school.

It's fair to say, that FTE is perhaps a bit overpriced. But you are paying for the reputation and it's fair to say that having FTE on your CV won't kill your chances of an interview. But it doesn't mean you'll get the job.

Oh and don't believe the 'airline licence' thing. It's not. That's a sales blurb.

cuterob

ah I understand.. I've always been obsessed with aviation and all the ins and outs of being a pilot just to me personally would be an ideal job no matter what way people say the job has gone these days.. I've spoken to a few pilots and they all tell of their love of the job.. so I'm thinking of just biting the bullet in the next couple of years if I'm at a loose end and still obsessed.

Another question if anyone can help..I'm moving to Canada for about 6 months come March.. flying over there seems to be about half the price than it is here.. would it be an idea to build hours and possibly lean towards getting a ppl out there or at least a good amount of hours towards it? I have <5 hours flight time at the moment due to busy life last couple of years and not living close to an airport that does lessons.

Also what are peoples opinions on NFC's 18 month zero hours to commercial pilot course? Doesn't seem too bad at all?

bluecode

I don't think anyone other than the current crop of the NFC students can say whether it's good or bad. It's still early days for the integrated course. I'm not even sure if anyone has graduated from it yet.

But the NFC has put a lot of pilots through their hands over the years, including me. So you can reasonably assume they're doing something right.

As for Canada, yes go for it. Try and get a Canadian PPL while you're there. Any hours you gain will give you a head start if you decide to try and go the professional route. Flying in America and Canada is usually a lot less restricted than it is over here. In weather terms and other ways too.

cuterob

Thanks for your help!

View Profile

I went to FTE.
I chose it because it was an integrated course (0 to hero in 15 months), because of it's reputation with the major airlines (although this meant nothing as I ended up in Ryanair), because it was close enough to home,and because all training, exams, and flight tests including the MCC were all carried out in one location.

Yes it was expensive and there are cheaper alternatives. Many of my colleagues in Ryanair did modular training and occupy the same seat I do but having paid 30K less.

Its a personal and financial decision in the end.

Good luck.

cuterob

View Profile wrote: »

I went to FTE.
I chose it because it was an integrated course (0 to hero in 15 months), because of it's reputation with the major airlines (although this meant nothing as I ended up in Ryanair), because it was close enough to home,and because all training, exams, and flight tests including the MCC were all carried out in one location.

Yes it was expensive and there are cheaper alternatives. Many of my colleagues in Ryanair did modular training and occupy the same seat I do but having paid 30K less.

Its a personal and financial decision in the end.

Good luck.

Would you consider moving to Etihad or Emirates if the opportunity arose?

If NFC was doing the integrated course when you were looking for somewhere to train would you have picked that over FTE?? 30k less and seems to be same time period.. they seem to have a good track record and they renew your instrument rating for free after a year if you don't have a job.

APM

cuterob wrote: »

Would you consider moving to Etihad or Emirates if the opportunity arose?

If NFC was doing the integrated course when you were looking for somewhere to train would you have picked that over FTE?? 30k less and seems to be same time period.. they seem to have a good track record and they renew your instrument rating for free after a year if you don't have a job.

Like VP above, I also went to FTE, and also ended up in RYR. As he said, there are many of the guys we work with doing the same job and now Captains having paid-as-they-went or saving a much smaller sum of money to do so.

Are NFC as financially stable as FTE, do they have the same success record...a B737 sim? WIll they be around in 15 months? I can 99% say FTE will be.

Do whatever option suits you financially and personally, but spending a little extra could really help you long term. The environment there has to be felt to be believed. They are serious about getting things done from start to finish, and totally professional. They are what PTC tried to become, except FTE have done it successfully and in the one location for almost the last 15 years.

At the end of the day they are all businesses, and once you are a graduate and handed over all your money, realistically FTE will forget about you. Job or no job. I graduated 3 years ago and some of my friends are still jobless. There is a lot of luck involved in getting the first job. There is no scarcity of pilots and there will not be for a long time. To put things into context, if Aer Lingus opened the doors for trained guys again tomorrow. I know at least 20 guys, with more than 2000hrs time, on B738 that would apply. Good jobs are extremely scarce.

I'd highly recommend FTE, but only if your happy to spend a little bit extra in the long run.

cuterob

APM wrote: »

To put things into context, if Aer Lingus opened the doors for trained guys again tomorrow. I know at least 20 guys, with more than 2000hrs time, on B738 that would apply. Good jobs are extremely scarce.

Are they jobless? or in ryanair and want to jump ship? or even based in europe somewhere and want an Irish/London base?

To be realistic it would be 2/3 years before I could even look for a job so maybe it might have picked up a bit job-wise and some of the older guys would have taken retirement ha

I know it's a gamble but I'd hate to not take the gamble and regret it the rest of my life, watching jets flying overhead as I sit at a desk. I've talked to a few pilots and they all seem to say the same thing, just go for it if you want it.. good chance you will get employed at some stage. Like tbh I'm willing to work outside of Ireland and I'm not married etc, mid 20's at the moment, so the next couple of years is probably my best bet I would say.

nabanoba

APM wrote: »

Like VP above, I also went to FTE, and also ended up in RYR. As he said, there are many of the guys we work with doing the same job and now Captains having paid-as-they-went or saving a much smaller sum of money to do so.

Are NFC as financially stable as FTE, do they have the same success record...a B737 sim? WIll they be around in 15 months? I can 99% say FTE will be.

Do whatever option suits you financially and personally, but spending a little extra could really help you long term. The environment there has to be felt to be believed. They are serious about getting things done from start to finish, and totally professional. They are what PTC tried to become, except FTE have done it successfully and in the one location for almost the last 15 years.

At the end of the day they are all businesses, and once you are a graduate and handed over all your money, realistically FTE will forget about you. Job or no job. I graduated 3 years ago and some of my friends are still jobless. There is a lot of luck involved in getting the first job. There is no scarcity of pilots and there will not be for a long time. To put things into context, if Aer Lingus opened the doors for trained guys again tomorrow. I know at least 20 guys, with more than 2000hrs time, on B738 that would apply. Good jobs are extremely scarce.

I'd highly recommend FTE, but only if your happy to spend a little bit extra in the long run.

I'm sorry APM, but I'm really struggling to understand the logic here. You say that 'realistically FTE will forget about you' and that some of your friends are still jobless after 3 years, yet you highly recommend FTE?

Surely if you want to spend extra on training the only option is CTC? They try and place their candidates. For me as a trainee pilot the most important thing is getting a job at the end of training, FTE do nothing in this regard, yet charge more than anyone else.

Also why does it cost more than anywhere else? They are based in Spain, a cheap place to train. They don't put any effort into forming links with airlines and finding jobs for their cadets, so how can they charge top dollar and more importantly why are people willing to pay it?

Su Campu

With FTE do you pay it all up front? Just remember the PTC fiasco and the victims being told after "I told you so, never pay up front!

APM

nabanoba wrote: »

I'm sorry APM, but I'm really struggling to understand the logic here. You say that 'realistically FTE will forget about you' and that some of your friends are still jobless after 3 years, yet you highly recommend FTE?

Surely if you want to spend extra on training the only option is CTC? They try and place their candidates. For me as a trainee pilot the most important thing is getting a job at the end of training, FTE do nothing in this regard, yet charge more than anyone else.

Also why does it cost more than anywhere else? They are based in Spain, a cheap place to train. They don't put any effort into forming links with airlines and finding jobs for their cadets, so how can they charge top dollar and more importantly why are people willing to pay it?

Some of my friends are jobless because of the aviation jobs market. Supply and demand. They would be unemployed still if they went to Oxford or somewhere else still.

The fact is a lot of big airlines went bankrupt in the last few years and threw a lot of trained, experienced guys back into the market, Malev, Fly Globespan, Spanair....all guys with 1000's of hours.

On the other hand FTE have placed guys with Qatar (directly into the RHS on the A320/A300F), Flybe....without being previously sponsored by these airlines. Just regular graduates who finished at the right time. This opportunity would certainly not have come with some other flying schools or modular. The problem is that Qatar etc didn't have a requirement for every single pilot that graduated.

Schools can only help their most recent graduates, unfortunately airlines aren't sentimental, they call up the flight school and ask for 10 of the best, most recent graduates. Not the ones that finished 1 year ago when there was no jobs.

Having said that, I highly recommend FTE as an FTO. The instruction, both groundschool and flight is exceptional, the MCC is done on a 737NG...brand new simulator (which helps imo if you do end up going for a Ryanair assessment). The campus is a lovely place to live and developing all the time, aircraft are maintained well, all to the same spec, navigationally the same kit is in the PA28 and PA34, this helps transitioning from one to the other.

At the end of the day you graduate with a UK CAA (JAA) CPL/IR. Your IR examination is conducted by a CAA examiner, I believe this stands for a lot compared to having a Spanish CPL/IR with the airlines.

And no, you don't pay up front. You pay by installments throughout the course

bluecode

No doubt about it. FTE are a good school. But you pay for that and as acknowledged it won't neccessarily help you get that first job.

You do have to ask yourself if it's worth the extra money it costs. For example FTE ask for €104,000 for their course, NFC €68,000. That's a difference of €36,000. To be fair NFC don't offer accomodation and food and there are other differences. But if you're Irish or more particularly from Dublin. That's hardly an issue.

€36k is lot of money. It'll pay for that Ryanair type rating or a lot of sim time or keep you current or feed you while waiting for some airline to wake up and recognise your genius.

Are NFC as financially stable as FTE, do they have the same success record...a B737 sim? WIll they be around in 15 months? I can 99% say FTE will be.

NFC have been around a long time and there is no sign of them going bust and a spare 36k will buy you plenty of sim time or indeed an Airbus rating.

I'm not promoting NFC, you could equally say the same thing of many flight schools here or abroad. Just add your favourite one.

The point is that in airline training, FTE are not the flying school equivalent of Oxbridge or Harvard or Princeton. They're good but it may not be worth the extra money.

Lustrum

I'm with Bluecode on this one.

I trained here in Ireland, and through doing as many ferry flights as possible while hour building for discounted rates, everything including a MCC cost me just over €57,000. That leaves me with €47,000 left over from what FTE would have cost me. Granted I don't have a job, but as far as I was concerned a slightly better chance of a job is not worth that much money.

In saying that though, if I could afford FTE, and have money left over for renewals, type rating etc. I probably would have paid out for that better chance of a job so I suppose it all comes down to your personal circumstances. Unfortunately, no school can guarantee you a job, just remember that before you sign up for FTE or CTC.

Also, there's a bit of a thread on Pprune about Ibertour. Not much information at the moment, so that might be indicative of why it costs so little - no info in aviation is a bad thing!

nabanoba

Lustrum wrote: »

I'm with Bluecode on this one.

I trained here in Ireland, and through doing as many ferry flights as possible while hour building for discounted rates, everything including a MCC cost me just over €57,000. That leaves me with €47,000 left over from what FTE would have cost me. Granted I don't have a job, but as far as I was concerned a slightly better chance of a job is not worth that much money.

In saying that though, if I could afford FTE, and have money left over for renewals, type rating etc. I probably would have paid out for that better chance of a job so I suppose it all comes down to your personal circumstances. Unfortunately, no school can guarantee you a job, just remember that before you sign up for FTE or CTC.

Also, there's a bit of a thread on Pprune about Ibertour. Not much information at the moment, so that might be indicative of why it costs so little - no info in aviation is a bad thing!

Obviously no school can guarantee you a job, but CTC tries and succeeds in the majority of cases, the likes of OAA and FTE charge similar amounts and don't try. This is why I really don't understand people advocating FTE, if you have the money to spend on a top class training provider then CTC is the answer. If they don't find you a job you are still in the same situation you would of been upon graduation at FTE.

APM

I'm not saying FTE are any better than Oxford or CTC, I personally don't have any experience except with FTE.

And as I said above and View Profile said, we have colleagues working with us who are doing the same job having spent thousands less.

All I'm saying is, FTE are a good school with a decent reputation, I enjoyed my training there and the school is very professional.

Plenty of different ways to skin a cat. The method I chose worked for me (less distractions than being home for study etc). Different methods work for others and in this jobs market I would probably spend less if I was doing it again...who knows.