Trial V Rough shooting dogs

FieldandStream

My Current Springer has served me well. Unfortunately her best days are now probably behind her and I would need to be getting myself a pup. Having read the article in this months Irish shooters digest regarding Trialling dogs being small and not making good rough shooting dogs due to lack of endurance it has given me food for thought.

As a newcomer but avid reader of boards, I would be interested in the opinions of ye lot as to whether I should go for a larger bred spaniel and if ye agree with the article in the digest.

TriggerPL

FieldandStream wrote: »

My Current Springer has served me well. Unfortunately her best days are now probably behind her and I would need to be getting myself a pup. Having read the article in this months Irish shooters digest regarding Trialling dogs being small and not making good rough shooting dogs due to lack of endurance it has given me food for thought.

As a newcomer but avid reader of boards, I would be interested in the opinions of ye lot as to whether I should go for a larger bred spaniel and if ye agree with the article in the digest.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81394428

greengrasscork

I have 5 springers 4 of which are small from a trial breeding and 1 large build springer and the smaller springers are better at hunting cover as it's easier to move on the ditchs for them where's the bigger springer is using more energy to get through rough cover. As stamina hunting after 4 hours they are pretty much done.

RICKYD

I shoot over 2 spaniels, 1 is trial bred the other isnt.Trial bred lad is flaked out after 3 hrs& wouldnt b a lover of heavy cover either.loves moors,bracken& light stuff while d other 1 wil hit cover like a savage all day& be ready for road again the followin day.just my 2cents

FieldandStream

Thanks lads. RickyD, I used to shoot with a lad who trialled a springer. She was a great looking dog and well trained. He would never have even hunted her in heavy cover and only gave her brief runs on a days shooting where he was sure of a find. Then the dog was straight back to heel. Thats not my idea of a good shooting dog.

ferrete

mate has 1 bred from field trailchampaion lines.n its a serious hunter shames the rest in the field lasts all days and i wouldnt believe the way this dog bushes.its actually unbelieveable how this dog bushes its more of a bull doser. and its an ess as i recall

snipe02

greengrasscork wrote: »

I have 5 springers 4 of which are small from a trial breeding and 1 large build springer and the smaller springers are better at hunting cover as it's easier to move on the ditchs for them where's the bigger springer is using more energy to get through rough cover. As stamina hunting after 4 hours they are pretty much done.

know a fella who has nothing to do with trialling and he knows his stuff when it come to training dogs for rough shooting . he always reconnend smaller springers are better because its easier for them to get through cover . i wonder how many lads are actually keeping there dogs in the ditch or cover all the time?, its easy for a dog to skip along the side of a ditch and fly in and out when there on scent. now i know a skinny miserable yolk is going to tire anyway, but there are merits for both personally i like size and dont like small dogs not as fussy about bitches but wouldnt buy a pup from a real small bitch plenty of good sized springers out there buy from one of them ive always been in the middle but having seen some tiny bitches at trials im been swayed ffs nobody wants a springer the size of a terrier id kick em out of the way but they obviously do their job but there not for me but will still go to trialling lines but not from anything tiny

TriggerPL

snipe02 wrote: »

know a fella who has nothing to do with trialling and he knows his stuff when it come to training dogs for rough shooting . he always reconnend smaller springers are better because its easier for them to get through cover . i wonder how many lads are actually keeping there dogs in the ditch or cover all the time?, its easy for a dog to skip along the side of a ditch and fly in and out when there on scent. now i know a skinny miserable yolk is going to tire anyway, but there are merits for both personally i like size and dont like small dogs not as fussy about bitches but wouldnt buy a pup from a real small bitch plenty of good sized springers out there buy from one of them ive always been in the middle but having seen some tiny bitches at trials im been swayed ffs nobody wants a springer the size of a terrier id kick em out of the way but they obviously do their job but there not for me but will still go to trialling lines but not from anything tiny

My lad is as big a springer as you will get and I put up a video there a while back of him in cover . That just rubbish about smaller dogs and cover , my experience with smaller trialy spaniels is there wont hit cover for long durations that's if ya can get them in at all , any gundog you see wearing a jacket when not working should be castrated in case it bred anything IMO .

snipe02

TriggerPL wrote: »

My lad is as big a springer as you will get and I put up a video there a while back of him in cover . That just rubbish about smaller dogs and cover , my experience with smaller trialy spaniels is there wont hit cover for long durations that's if ya can get them in at all , any gundog you see wearing a jacket when not working should be castrated in case it bred anything IMO .

he has to be breakin a lot more branches i thinks its a sign of brain when a dog slips through when possable so your sayin its not easier for smaller dogs to get through?

TriggerPL

snipe02 wrote: »

he has to be breakin a lot more branches i thinks its a sign of brain when a dog slips through when possable so your sayin its not easier for smaller dogs to get through?

If it heavy cover there is no slipping true , ur nuking it out like these small spaniels will go where big ones won't . And that bull ! The problem with spaniels today is there programming , trailing men don't want those head strong break down a wall spaniels they want the little zippy under ur feet spaniel and they have bread the hunt out of them. Breeding small dogs with small bitches with soft temperaments ,

And dogs like broc bred with every bitch in the country that willing to pay the fee don't help either .

FieldandStream

The main advantage of field trial breeding is that there is a fair chance that the dog will be able to hunt. I know a guy who had a bitch that pupped and he sold them as working strain pups. He managed to shift them all, however having seen the bitch in the field she wouldnt have hunted in a fit. Anyone who bought one would have been in for some serious heartache. My opinion is that unless you know the bitch, field trial lines are prob the only way of ensuring that you will get a pup of any worth.

snipe02

TriggerPL wrote: »

If it heavy cover there is no slipping true , ur nuking it out like these small spaniels will go where big ones won't . And that bull ! The problem with spaniels today is there programming , trailing men don't want those head strong break down a wall spaniels they want the little zippy under ur feet spaniel and they have bread the hunt out of them. Breeding small dogs with small bitches with soft temperaments ,

And dogs like broc bred with every bitch in the country that willing to pay the fee don't help either .

never said they go where bigger one dont go. also said i like big spaniels but did say i think there is a place for smaller ones . stop changing what im saying to push your own agenda .. true some cover (but not all) is too tight and the dog needs a bit of power behind em to break through. this is why i like the bigger dogs but i place nose and brains ahead of the size of the dog

TriggerPL

snipe02 wrote: »

never said they go where bigger one dont go. also said i like big spaniels but did say i think there is a place for smaller ones . stop changing what im saying to push your own agenda .. true some cover (but not all) is too tight and the dog needs a bit of power behind em to break through. this is why i like the bigger dogs but i place nose and brains ahead of the size of the dog

Like most hunters a nose is what everybody looks for but that's not even in them , there programmed , and the only one changing anything is u ! Saying you like big spaniels but trailing is way to go , either way there not buying big spaniels into England for the good of there health , they recognise the problem , but it a case of to little to late .

snipe02

TriggerPL wrote: »

Like most hunters a nose is what everybody looks for but that's not even in them , there programmed , and the only one changing anything is u ! Saying you like big spaniels but trailing is way to go , either way there not buying big spaniels into England for the good of there health , they recognise the problem , but it a case of to little to late .

trialling is the way to go ? i didnt say that ,

I do like big spaniels and there are plenty of big spaniels with trialling blood in em around here. they are not all tiny are they?

hopefully people will learn from the english only going on what you say here nothing to back that up didnt know they were importing large spaniels from ireland .

im looking at this with an open mind and not just taking it from one point of view i have nothing to gain i have know interest in trialling just in improving the line of dogs ive got and they are from trialling lines and well worth their salt, and not little wimps but good sized and well able for hunting but i hunt them in the ditch, hedge or cover all the time they are not allowed to mooch up the side of and are ****ed after 3 hours after that need pushing on .

midnightfalcon

It's not as sample as that if you look at last year's champions both in England and at home one was ran on white grass the other up the north on heavy cover. Any dog qualified in England can run in Ireland but they don't only a few come to face the cover. Also the shooting we do is far from what they do in England.