Motor Tax For Island Vehicles/Taxis/Hackneys etc

vicwatson

Island vehicle - €95 straight rate per year

Taxi - €88 straight rate per year

Hackney - €88 straight rate per year

Agricultural Tractor - €95 straight rate per year

Youth/Community Bus - €143 - €375 depending on category per year

Private car - well, I wont go there, we can see how inequitable this motor tax system is.

You can have a 3.6 litre car as a Taxi and pay just €88 per annum, yet a Youth or Community Bus can cost up to €375 per annum.

This old bullsh1t tax system needs a massive overhaul to make it more equitable, and soon, very soon.:mad:

Bloody ridiculous

vicwatson

PS this wasn't set up as a bash Taxi drivers thread. Its not their fault it's so cheap, they pay what's asked.

The point is is that Noonan was waffling on tonight about the budget 2012 and how it will be "equitable", it be interesting to see if he changes all these outdated Motor Tax rates to be more equitable.

Fat chance.

Atlantic Dawn

He will likely do they usual to the CC based changes, 5% up for the below 2 litre cars and 9% for those above.

Where To

I believe public service vehicles shouldn't have to pay any motor tax at all.

vicwatson

Where To wrote: »

I believe public service vehicles shouldn't have to pay any motor tax at all.

I believe if you drive a 10 year old 2.0 litre car you pay €660.00 per year NO MATTER what type vehicle it is. PSV or not.

Is a Youth/Community bus not a PSV?

CiniO

I must say I don't really get your point...
Are those rates too high or too low?

Island vehicle -what's the difference. We all know that no one on islands pay any tax or insurance anyway.

Taxi, hackney??? They are meant to be used only for business purposes, and require separate licences. What's the problem here?

Community bus? Completely can's see any issue.

Robbo

I wonder how much proof they require that you're a part time, unsuccessful undertaker?

There was a very nice E39 525i Touring for sale recently that was on the Hearse rate of tax. Huge spec which included the rear seats ready to go back in as soon as the stiffs were dispatched...

Dr_Colossus

vicwatson wrote: »

Taxi - €88 straight rate per year

Hackney - €88 straight rate per year

Bloody ridiculous

+1. Why aren't taxis and hackneys taxable to the same degree as private vehicles? They're constantly on the road and often in large engines using their park anywhere lights to great danger and inconsideration to other road users. Granted they're supposed to be business vehicles but let them offset the motor tax as a business expense in terms of their tax returns the same way as the large motor tax is applied to large commercial trucks and lorries.

Henry Ford III

Tax (including motor tax) isn't fair.

AltAccount

If a taxi driver uses his vehicle privately is he liable for any kind of fine?

Can you choose to pay for "full" private tax on a Taxi if you intend to use it privately?

Our man in Havana

You can pay private tax on anything.

CiniO

AltAccount wrote: »

If a taxi driver uses his vehicle privately is he liable for any kind of fine?

Can you choose to pay for "full" private tax on a Taxi if you intend to use it privately?

Yes, and yes.

Taxi driver must sign a declaration that vehicle will be used only as a taxi if he want's to tax it as a taxi.

CiniO

Our man in Havana wrote: »

You can pay private tax on anything.

I often wondered if really so...

Could you tax privately a 40 tonne artic truck?
Hence that private tax on it would be 1683 per year, while when it's taxed as goods vehicle you pay 4833 per annum.

September1

CiniO wrote: »

I often wondered if really so...

Could you tax privately a 40 tonne artic truck?
Hence that private tax on it would be 1683 per year, while when it's taxed as goods vehicle you pay 4833 per annum.

As long as you declare that you will only use it for recreational purposes... I think you will save also on tolls.

Our man in Havana

Could you tax privately a 40 tonne artic truck?
Hence that private tax on it would be 1683 per year, while when it's taxed as goods vehicle you pay 4833 per annum.

You could but you would have one serious problem. You no longer be able to carry goods.

Looking at my DOE cert for my van it says the weight of goods i can carry is 0 kg.

Stheno

September1 wrote: »

As long as you declare that you will only use it for recreational purposes... I think you will save also on tolls.

You could turn it into a giant caravan a la Container City

CiniO

September1 wrote: »

As long as you declare that you will only use it for recreational purposes... I think you will save also on tolls.

Wait a second.
We all heard some time ago, that they were meant to start enforcing the law, and anyone who has a van and is using it both - commercial and private purposes - is meant to tax it privately. So then he can legally continue to use it for both purposes.

So unless I'm wrong with the above - the same should apply for big trucks, as they are in the same tax category as vans - (category called goods vehicles).

Our man in Havana wrote: »

You could but you would have one serious problem. You no longer be able to carry goods.

Looking at my DOE cert for my van it says the weight of goods i can carry is 0 kg.

Have you got a van taxed privately?
How can this be the case?
If you are using it for private purposes and go on holidays, does that mean you can't put your suitcases and surfboard in the back?

unkel

CiniO wrote: »

they were meant to start enforcing the law

Enforcing the law, in Ireland? LOL

dgt

CiniO wrote: »

Have you got a van taxed privately?
How can this be the case?
If you are using it for private purposes and go on holidays, does that mean you can't put your suitcases and surfboard in the back?

Private tax van: use it how you like. Not for commercial purposes. Been there, done that.

_Kaiser_

Stheno wrote: »

You could turn it into a giant caravan a la Container City

I have to say I'm impressed!
Some of those look nicer (the "apartments", not just the girls ) than a lot of houses and apartments I've seen here over the years.

Like the couple who converted an old former Dublin Bus into a 2 story "house" in the UK

CiniO

dgt wrote: »

Private tax van: use it how you like. Not for commercial purposes. Been there, done that.

So how are you meant to tax a van, which is used for business say monday to friday 9-5, and then for private use in the evenings and weekends?

Private or commercial?

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

So how are you meant to tax a van, which is used for business say monday to friday 9-5, and then for private use in the evenings and weekends?

Private or commercial?

Commercial I'd say as it is being used for commercial purposes.

Private only if not being used for commercial purposes at any time.

CiniO

Stheno wrote: »

Commercial I'd say as it is being used for commercial purposes.

Private only if not being used for commercial purposes at any time.

That makes sense to me.
And I always thought that's the right way.

But according to what everyone was saying here 2 year ago (when talk started about usage of commecial vans for private use), it was meant to be opposite.
Also some motortax offices were forcing people taxing vans a commercial tax, to sign "goods only declaration", where owner would declare van will be used only for commercial purposes.

Our man in Havana

Private tax means private use only.

CiniO

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Private tax means private use only.

No, that's not true.

Private tax rates are described here in Section 3 - point 6. (e)

6. Vehicles other than those charged with duty under the foregoing provisions of this Part of this Schedule:
(...)
(e) subject to subparagraph (f), other vehicles to which this paragraph applies and which—

(i) have an engine capacity not exceeding 1,000 cubic centimetres - €185
(...)

This is cut out of whole document, so it's better to see in in the whole act to know what I mean.
In short
Section 3 describes all the tax classes under which we are meant to tax cars.
Points 1 to 5 describe moped. motorbikes, goods vehicles including vans and trucks, buses (LPSV), diggers, etc...
Point 6 described other vehciles which can't be taxed under any of the above points (1 - 5). This point (6) describes CO2 rates and engine size rates, but obviously CO2 rates apply only to passenger cars, while engine size rates can apply to anything.
So in general if some vehicle doesn't suit any tax class described above, it will be classes by enigne size, and will be described by motortax office on tax disc as private.

I have a best example with my employer who owns few buses (minibuses and coaches) which can't be taxed as LPSV (as they don't have licence for transport) so therefore they have to be taxed according to engine size.
I know it looks funny when 50 seater coach has tax disc saying "private" and engine size of 9600cc, but that's how it works.
It obviously doesn't mean that those buses must be used only for private purposes. They are owned by company, and therefore they are used entirely for commarical purposes.

tuborg_man

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, and yes.

Taxi driver must sign a declaration that vehicle will be used only as a taxi if he want's to tax it as a taxi.

could you forward me a link to the declaration please.

dgt

CiniO wrote: »

So how are you meant to tax a van, which is used for business say monday to friday 9-5, and then for private use in the evenings and weekends?

Private or commercial?

Bit stupid mixing business and pleasure.... Been there done that yada yada yada

But to answer your question, Private. As you need commercial insurance for a van regardless of tax classification, commercial or private.

CiniO

tuborg_man wrote: »

could you forward me a link to the declaration please.

Here you go:
http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/645148562.pdf

tuborg_man

Never seen that before and i've taxed taxi's in meath and Dublin. Nothing about it in the NTA's reg's that I can see either. (although I could have missed it)
Standard insurance for taxi is spsv vehicle and private use aswell although that has nothing to do with the tax status.

Our man in Havana

As you need commercial insurance for a van regardless of tax classification, commercial or private.

Really? I has private insurance on my privately taxed van. Not a problem. I am not a business so I has no need for commercial insurance as I don't carry goods as part of a trade or profession.

CiniO

tuborg_man wrote: »

Never seen that before and i've taxed taxi's in meath and Dublin. Nothing about it in the NTA's reg's that I can see either. (although I could have missed it)
Standard insurance for taxi is spsv vehicle and private use aswell although that has nothing to do with the tax status.

Because there is a requirement for taxis and hackneys taxes as so, to be used only for business use.

(b) any vehicle (excluding a taxi) which is used as a small public service vehicle within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , and for no other purpose,

€88

(c) any vehicle which is fitted with a taximeter and is lawfully used as a street service vehicle within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , and for purposes incidental to such use and for no other purpose,

€88

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/act/pub/0010/print.html

I assume as that SPSV only declaration is the only invention of some motortax offices, as someone quoted earlier they must be satsfied that vehicle is taxed at correct taxation class, and in accordance to above, they can't be taxes under taxi (hackney) category unless they are being used only for purpose of being taxi, hackney.

Where To

Whenever I want something from the shop I have to ring my work phone from my private phone and leave a fiver on the kitchen table for myself for when I get back.

Our man in Havana

Where To wrote: »

Whenever I want something from the shop I have to ring my work phone from my private phone and leave a fiver on the kitchen table for myself for when I get back.

It is bloody ridiculous that we are reduced to such carry on.

tuborg_man

CiniO wrote: »

Because there is a requirement for taxis and hackneys taxes as so, to be used only for business use.


http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/act/pub/0010/print.html

I assume as that SPSV only declaration is the only invention of some motortax offices, as someone quoted earlier they must be satsfied that vehicle is taxed at correct taxation class, and in accordance to above, they can't be taxes under taxi (hackney) category unless they are being used only for purpose of being taxi, hackney.

That's the stuff there, cheers for that, Although unfortunately when I asked the Nta and local tax office about this they couldn't answer me, The tax office's answer was they change the rules so much we can't keep up with them. (I don't know who they were nor did I ask.)

dgt

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Really? I has private insurance on my privately taxed van. Not a problem. I am not a business so I has no need for commercial insurance as I don't carry goods as part of a trade or profession.

Technically you are meant to, if you crash while carrying goods might get sticky.... It depends on the body type of the vehicle on the VLC

If you don't carry a thing in the boot there's no need for it

We don't have a business/VAT reg etc and we still have commercial insurance on the Daily van as we use it as a van and not for trips to Tesco or picking me up at the weekends from the nightclub :pac:

triple-M

so say i knew somebody living on one of our islands,would it be possible to register a car at their address to avail of cheap tax?

Our man in Havana

triple-M wrote: »

so say i knew somebody living on one of our islands,would it be possible to register a car at their address to avail of cheap tax?

No.

The cheap rate does not apply to vehicles used on the mainland.

CiniO

triple-M wrote: »

so say i knew somebody living on one of our islands,would it be possible to register a car at their address to avail of cheap tax?

Probably it would, but you won't be able to use this car anywhere outside of this island.
In generally that tax would be valid only on the island.

mgbgt1978

(b) any vehicle (excluding a taxi)

Cinio, I know it's only a small quote from your statute quote but it does say "excluding a taxi" ????

I'm not looking for your interpretation of our Laws, but it appears that "Taxi's" do not fall under the excusivity rule, i.e. they can be taxed as a taxi but can also be used for private use.

Also the Cork document you linked to seems to be only in Cork (and nowhere else), either a local (ok, the real capital) anomally or an out of date piece of paper. It certainly does not pertain to most other parts of the country.

triple-M

CiniO wrote: »

Probably it would, but you won't be able to use this car anywhere outside of this island.
In generally that tax would be valid only on the island.

ah ok i missed that part when reading through the rules,thanks

CiniO

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

(b) any vehicle (excluding a taxi)

Cinio, I know it's only a small quote from your statute quote but it does say "excluding a taxi" ????

I'm not looking for your interpretation of our Laws, but it appears that "Taxi's" do not fall under the excusivity rule, i.e. they can be taxed as a taxi but can also be used for private use.

Oh come on.
Have a proper read of that quote again.

point (b) described hackneys in general (that why excluding taxi phrase), while point (c) described taxis.
In both categories it says that vehicles is not used for any other purpose.
Open the whole act, as it's easier to see that than from my little quote.

Also the Cork document you linked to seems to be only in Cork (and nowhere else), either a local (ok, the real capital) anomally or an out of date piece of paper. It certainly does not pertain to most other parts of the country.

As I said - this document must be invention of motor tax office, but it's not only Cork.
I've seen exactly the same in Mayo.

Anyway - The Act above is clear, and says that when vehicle is taxed as hackney (point b) or taxi (point c) it costs 88 euro but that vehicle can't be used for any other purpose.

Motortax office must be satisfied that vehicle is correctly taxed, that's why they might ask owners to sign this declaration.
But even if motor tax office don't ask you to sign that declaration, you can't use taxi or hackney taxed as so (88 euro rate) for private purpose at any time.

All above seems to be clear enough.

In my opinion the more tricky thing is declaration below, which also many motortax offices ask to sign when someone is taxing a van commarcially.

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,23874,en.pdf

According to that, you can't tax a van at goods vehicle rate (commercial), if you are planning to use it for private purposes at any time.
So it means that if you will be using your van for work, but then go to cinema in it in the evening, than you can't have it taxed as commercial.
That's mad.
And that form must be purely invented by motor tax offices, as there is no law prohibiting usage of commercially taxed vans which are being used for business purposes, to be used private as well as an addition.
But somehow they though (at motor tax offices) they don't need any law to support that - they will just do it.
Also I can't undestand why this declaration only applies to vehicles below 3500kg.

Spook_ie

Re people thinking about the taxi side of this and declarations..

(b) any vehicle (excluding a taxi) which is used as a small public service vehicle within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , and for no other purpose,


€88

(c) any vehicle which is fitted with a taximeter and is lawfully used as a street service vehicle within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , and for purposes incidental to such use and for no other purpose,

b is a Hackney and c is a Taxi the important but is highlighted

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

Taxi driver must sign a declaration that vehicle will be used only as a taxi if he want's to tax it as a taxi.

Billhooks. I know several taxi drivers, none of whom keep a 2nd vehicle for private use.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Billhooks. I know several taxi drivers, none of whom keep a 2nd vehicle for private use.

I know many driver who don't have any tax, nct or insurance, or sometimes even licence and they still drive.

But it doesn't change a fact that driving a taxi taxed as taxi for private purposes is illegal.

Stheno

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Billhooks.

Excellent expression

Spook_ie

You can argue as much as you like but without the enforcement you can drive an arctic without tax so driving a taxi as a private vehicle is just as easy.

There MAY be something next year after ( if ) the taxi branding comes in and they see someone driving a car without the roofsign...



Though as usual it's already a fudge up with it being on license renewal so could still be people not requiring them until DECEMBER 2013

http://www.thejournal.ie/taxi-branding-620491-Oct2012/

GREATER PROFESSIONALISM AND accountability is being encouraged in Ireland’s taxi sector, with new decals and other moves being introduced.

Public Transport Minister Alan Kelly welcomed the new taxi branding signage, which he announced will be phased in to Ireland’s taxi fleet from January 2013.

Branding

The branding will contain the individual vehicle licence number associated with a particular vehicle and will also carry the ‘Transport for Ireland’ logo.

Minister Kelly said:

New York has yellow taxis, London has the famous black cabs. These approaches would be far too expensive for Irish taxi drivers but to ensure the people who operate in the sector are accountable for their vehicles, we have opted for semi-permanent branding for taxis.

He described the move as “a very significant reform” and said it will encourage a more professional approach to the taxi sector.

We want to ensure that those who operate taxis are committed and accountable. It will make it harder for rogue drivers to continue operating in the sector.

Changes

As part of the changes, a new online system will be introduced that will link the driver with the vehicle they are using, allowing passengers to check the appropriate driver is in the vehicle.

There will be new age limits for vehicles introduced, and ‘Taxi Plate Only’ rental will be prohibited. Under the changes, the SPSV vehicle licence will be linked with the vehicle owner.

New taxi and hackney vehicles will be prohibited from having tinted windows when entering the fleet.

The transferability of taxi vehicle licences will come to an end, and the inactive licence period will be reduced.

Stealthirl

Re: PSV tax
My mother has been working as a hackney/taxi driver since the early 90s,she started as a hackney. Shes licensed in Kildare/Carlow and Dublin

Shes never heard about or seen that deceleration
Every year she dose have to produce her PSV licence, tax clearance cert, NCT cert, PSV insurance cert and the SPS thing to say she has a sealed meter ect before they will tax the car.

I can confidently say i know over 50 drivers who's sole car is there taxi

I do know that if she taxed her car as a psv for a year and sold it the next day the new owner couldn't drive it for a year taxed as such, as soon as it becomes a privet car the tax would have to be payed as such

Our man in Havana

I do know that if she taxed her car as a psv for a year and sold it the next day the new owner couldn't drive it for a year taxed as such, as soon as it becomes a privet car the tax would have to be payed as such

That is 100% correct. It also applies to cars taxed on the islands, hearses etc. Once the use changes the current tax is invalid.

Stealthirl

On a personal note

Why should a driver have to pay full price for a car to use as a PSV and also buy a car for personal use ?

If they could clame VAT/VRT ect back on the purchase of the car for a PSV then i would agree that it should only be used as a PSV

My mothers last car cost 16K when she bought it after 4 years use as a taxi it was worth SFA and her best offer for it was 1K while privet cars the same were selling for over 5K

I felt bad for her and as i knew the car was well looked after so i gave her €1500 for it and its not relay cost me anything in over a year of ownership bar ware and tear

CiniO

Stealthirl wrote: »

Re: PSV tax
My mother has been working as a hackney/taxi driver since the early 90s,she started as a hackney. Shes licensed in Kildare/Carlow and Dublin

Shes never heard about or seen that deceleration
Every year she dose have to produce her PSV licence, tax clearance cert, NCT cert, PSV insurance cert and the SPS thing to say she has a sealed meter ect before they will tax the car.

I can confidently say i know over 50 drivers who's sole car is there taxi

I do know that if she taxed her car as a psv for a year and sold it the next day the new owner couldn't drive it for a year taxed as such, as soon as it becomes a privet car the tax would have to be payed as such

So possibly this "PSV only declaration" is not much popular thing with motor tax offices.

Anyway - it is illegal to drive a taxi or hackney taxed as taxi or hackney for private use.
From what you are saying, no one is enforcing this law, so I assume that's a perfect loophole for owning big enigne cars.
Instead of paying over 1600 euro tax per year, it will come cheaper to do all appropriate licences and have it taxed as a hackney.

Spook_ie

CiniO wrote: »

So possibly this "PSV only declaration" is not much popular thing with motor tax offices.

Anyway - it is illegal to drive a taxi or hackney taxed as taxi or hackney for private use.
From what you are saying, no one is enforcing this law, so I assume that's a perfect loophole for owning big enigne cars.
Instead of paying over 1600 euro tax per year, it will come cheaper to do all appropriate licences and have it taxed as a hackney.

Perfect loophole, if it's illegal it's not a perfect loophole.



You also will need to wait until such time as the NTA decide to start issuing hackney licenses again, as at the moment the only licenses being issued are for Wheel Chair Accessible Hackneys and also will require to have SPSV insurance on the vehicle and then be subject to the testing/licensing criteria of the SGS's taxi mafia