Full Time Job

ghogie91

Hi All,,
Just want to see what ye think of this?

I have been in a job for over 3 years now.

I have went for an interview for a fulltime job once before about 2 years ago,

here I am 3 years in the job now, have learned anything there is to know.

I am desperately awaiting a full time job here. I have been on the same rate of pay since I started. I am essentially still agency staff all this time later.

Throughout the last 2 years i have been told on numerous occasions there would be a full time job coming up, every date I got was bypassed and I was given a date in the future, the latest was early november now it is Feburary

Its beginning to get to me now as temporary staff are brought in all the time for a month/ 2 months to do filing or file hunting or whatever, all these temporary staff are brought in on the same rate of pay as myself

what do i do? does anyone have any views on this?

Procrastastudy

ghogie91 wrote: »

here I am 3 years in the job now, have learned anything there is to know.

I realise this is probably just a throw away comment in an on-line forum but if this was to come across to managers/in the interview it won't do you any favours. There's always more to learn (even if there isn't).

tatli_lokma

Why wouldn't an agency employee get the same rate of pay as you? if they are doing a similar or comparable job the law says they must get the same pay and benefits as a permanent employee. And, also unless you have access to payroll or HR records, how can you be certain what they are paid?

It seems to me that agency staff are being taken on because the company does not have the cash flow to provide any permanent positions. If the date has been pushed back it would suggest the funds are just not there. Its not like they are hiring other people full time - the actual positions are not coming up.

Perhaps offer to do extra hours so that they don't need to take on agency staff - offer to do the file hunting yourself to increase your hours. Offer to take on duties that will push your hours into full time and negate the need for the company to take on an agency worker for those duties.

Other than that, all you can do really is build on your skill set and look elsewhere.

Mrs OBumble

OP you say "full time" - but do you really mean "more hours per week" or "permanent"?

Just to clarify, you can be

part-time and temporary (you get a fixed number, less than 30*, hours every week, but there is a fixed end-date in sight)
part-time and casual (you get less than 30* hours every week, and get told every week* what hours you've got next week)
part-time and permanent (you get a fixed number, less than 30*, hours every week, with no expected end date: you're there 'til you quit, or they make you redundant)

full-time and temporary (you get a fixed number, more than 30*, hours every week, but there is a fixed end-date in sight)
full-time and casual (you get more than 30* hours every week, and get told every week* what hours you're working next week)
full-time and permanent (you get a fixed number, more than 30*, hours every week, with no expected end date: you're there 'til you quit, or they make you redundant)

* there's an "ish" about this 30 and about how far in advance casual hours are determined.




Big question, though: why are you desperate for a job where you are now? Why not do some job hunting outside, and see if you can get a better job somewhere else, if your currently employer isn't looking after you?

ghogie91

Sorry just to clarify I am agency also for 3 years now

Sorry I should have given more info:

I work 36.15 hours per week, I started by filing now I am doing accounting, order taking etc. the same work that is trusted with the permanent staff. I am not looking for more hours I am looking for permanency and pay increase as I am agency staff so there for get paid 7 euro an hour less than the lowest paid member of staff who is permanent.

My gripe is I like working here that is why I am still here, I have been informed on numberous occasions the job would be coming up only to see the date constantly being pushed into the future. The reason an agency employee shouldnt get the same rate of pay as me as I have more responsibility and have had numerous training days to further my skill and knowledge within this company, I have completed all these training days and am implementing everything I learned into the tasks which i take on day to day due these training days, essentially I am taking on more important tasks than the newer agency staff.

The funds are there as there is other job contracts being agreed around me but nothing happening with my situation.

What i mean about full time etc is Job Permanency and fair pay for the work i am doing

Is this common place that people are just not getting this these days?

Also in regard to cash flow, to have a member of an agency in is averaging out dearer than a full time employee

ghogie91

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP you say "full time" - but do you really mean "more hours per week" or "permanent"?

Just to clarify, you can be

part-time and temporary (you get a fixed number, less than 30*, hours every week, but there is a fixed end-date in sight)
part-time and casual (you get less than 30* hours every week, and get told every week* what hours you've got next week)
part-time and permanent (you get a fixed number, less than 30*, hours every week, with no expected end date: you're there 'til you quit, or they make you redundant)

full-time and temporary (you get a fixed number, more than 30*, hours every week, but there is a fixed end-date in sight)
full-time and casual (you get more than 30* hours every week, and get told every week* what hours you're working next week)
full-time and permanent (you get a fixed number, more than 30*, hours every week, with no expected end date: you're there 'til you quit, or they make you redundant)

* there's an "ish" about this 30 and about how far in advance casual hours are determined.




Big question, though: why are you desperate for a job where you are now? Why not do some job hunting outside, and see if you can get a better job somewhere else, if your currently employer isn't looking after you?

I work 36.15 hours every single week, my contract expired Feb of 2012

I am not job hunting as I love working here and have put so much learning and hours into getting the knowledge I have of the business

ghogie91

Procrastastudy wrote: »

I realise this is probably just a throw away comment in an on-line forum but if this was to come across to managers/in the interview it won't do you any favours. There's always more to learn (even if there isn't).

Ok you got me on that one that was stupid of me

tatli_lokma

ok, so now it makes more sense. You are not looking to go full time, as you already work full time. You are looking to be given a permanent contract directly with the company, rather than be outsouced via an agency.

That's a totally different ball game.

Regarding the pay issue - thanks to the new legislation in place for agency workers, you should get the same rate of pay as a permanent employee doing the same wage. Are there any staff employed permanently by the company to do the same or very similar job to you? If so, is there a way you can get a job description and list of duties for that role (some companies have all the job specs on their intranet - I am not advocating that you get this information by dishonest means!).

If you can give valid proof that you do the same job as a permanent member of staff, then you are entitled to get paid the same as them. Perhaps contact your agency and ask their advice on how to handle this. It is in their interests to get you more money too, as their commission will increase.

Other than that, start cultivating good contacts in the company, network, get noticed. Develop your training as much as you possibly can. And then start looking elsewhere, using these skills and contacts to help you - good referees make a big difference.

Once you start looking and secure some interviews, let it be known that you are attending interviews. Once they think they might loose you, they might reconsider your agency status. You might even decide to play hardball and tell them you have an offer - its a risk to do this, as they might call your bluff, but it's something to consider.

Good luck with it anyway - one of the worst things is not knowing where you stand from week to week, so I do sympathise.

tatli_lokma

ghogie91 wrote: »

Also in regard to cash flow, to have a member of an agency in is averaging out dearer than a full time employee

This might not be strictly true - have you taken into account PRSI, pensions, other taxable earnings, leave liabilities and sick pay liabilities? Its not a simple case of Mary is permanent and earns €15 per hour, but we pay the agency €16.50 per hour for John. €15 plus PRSI at 10.75% is €16.61, and that is without any pension contributions (if any), leave liabilities, or other benefits. Then there are also admin costs - the agency staff are on someone elses payroll, so wages are administered by someone else. If all the agency staff were employed by the company they might need to take on extra payroll staff to administer the wages for them.

I see you do some accounts work, so if I am teaching granny to suck eggs, I apologise, but I just thought it was worth mentioning in case you weren't aware of it.

Mrs OBumble

The agency often takes a commission of 30%. This often horrifies people new to agency work, but you need to remember that this includes holiday pay (8%) and employer PRSI (about 7%). So their actual profit is a good deal lower.

That said, OP, I think you need to work on your networks and find out why the company isn't offering your a permanent role. Have the company hired anyone directly at all? Maybe they have a hiring freeze, that the local managers expect to have lifted sometime soon: it's possible that they are telling you all they know in good faith, but that some overseas headquarters is changing the rules on then.

Also, you should talk to your agency about getting more money: as you have become more skilled and valuable to their client, they are likely to have been charging the client more. (I got an hourly rate increased by 33% when I had a temping gig that just kept on expanding .)

ghogie91

I am seriously considering college

I was doing a bit of job hunting at the weekend and its not a pretty sight like

tatli_lokma

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The agency often takes a commission of 30%. This often horrifies people new to agency work, but you need to remember that this includes holiday pay (8%) and employer PRSI (about 7%). So their actual profit is a good deal lower.

Many agency workers working full time earning over €9.00 per hour would be on 10.75% ER PRSI. It is 4.25% on earnings up to €356, but this will increase back to 8.5% on the 1st January 2014.
(although this could all change come next Wednesday! :eek:)