Car won't start on cold mornings - not the battery

BullBauld

As the title says my car has horrid bother starting on these cold mornings. Most times it wont start and I run down the battery trying. And then need to jump start it.

I usually turn the car over(as in turn on half way and wait for lights to go out) 5/6/7 times just to get things warmed up before I even attempt to turn it on fully. Sometimes this does the trick but if it's particulary cold like this morning that will not work. And tonight is going to be even colder.

The battery was tested before and given the ok, it wasn't on it's last leg or anything. So I'm pretty certain it's not that. When I jump it, it starts immediately, like it only needed a small kick up the backside!

So anyone any idea what else could be causing this. It's a major pain in the butt having to get someone over to jump it in the mornings, for them more than me.

It's a diesel car btw, a 01, but a very good car in all other respects.

Any help appreciated.

CJhaughey

BullBauld wrote: »

It's a diesel car btw, a 01, but a very good car in all other respects.

What model and engine?

keithclancy

BullBauld wrote: »

As the title says my car has horrid bother starting on these cold mornings. Most times it wont start and I run down the battery trying. And then need to jump start it.

I usually turn the car over(as in turn on half way and wait for lights to go out) 5/6/7 times just to get things warmed up before I even attempt to turn it on fully. Sometimes this does the trick but if it's particulary cold like this morning that will not work. And tonight is going to be even colder.

The battery was tested before and given the ok, it wasn't on it's last leg or anything. So I'm pretty certain it's not that. When I jump it, it starts immediately, like it only needed a small kick up the backside!

So anyone any idea what else could be causing this. It's a major pain in the butt having to get someone over to jump it in the mornings, for them more than me.

It's a diesel car btw, a 01, but a very good car in all other respects.

Any help appreciated.

How Cold ?

Could be the glow plugs

doolox

Diesels may have glow plugs in the engine cylinders which need to be switched on before they start in cold weather. Also the fuel injectors may be clogged and the diesel fuel may jellify in VERY cold weather.


This may only be an issue if using a bulk tank for refuelling which may have summer grade fuel in it. Ordinary motorists refuelling from a commercial filling station should have no problem with fuel.

You may have to get a mechanic to check out the engine for badly working glow plugs or injectors.

Kenny Logins

I have the same problem in a Golf TDi, I just assumed it was the glow plugs... Starts fine when warmed up a little later in the day.

Bpmull

The fact the car starts straight away when jumped is a sign the battery is to small not powerful enough. Diesel cars take more to start then petrol. You need to get a battery with a high cold start capacity 600 + cca. Also if you got a battery with a higher amps this would help. I had the same problem with my Astra diesel I went in bought a 70 amp battery instead of 60 amp and the Bosch battery I bought has 660 cca. You would want to see it start now first touch of the key regardless of temperature conditions. If your battery is not spinning the starter motor fast enough it's a waste of time trying to start it as it just takes forever to start a diesel like this.

bucketybuck

Get your battery tested somewhere else.

If the jump pack starts the vehicle immediately, its sounds like your battery isn't up to scratch.

sparksfly

Had the same issue on Octavia 1.9TDI.
Changed the battery, problem solved.

BullBauld

CJhaughey wrote: »

What model and engine?

Bora 1.9 TDI

Chris_Heilong

Alternator. If the Alternator is not working fully the battery wont be getting enough of a charge, so there might be nothing wrong except a low charge in the battery, if you have a car alarm and your car is old then the alarm's own battery may have died and it is draining your car battery.

I am sure once you get it started in the morning and come back to it in the evening then it starts with little issue, does it? But the problem reappears when left over night.

BullBauld

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Alternator. If the Alternator is not working fully the battery wont be getting enough of a charge, so there might be nothing wrong except a low charge in the battery, if you have a car alarm and your car is old then the alarm's own battery may have died and it is draining your car battery.

I am sure once you get it started in the morning and come back to it in the evening then it starts with little issue, does it? But the problem reappears when left over night.[/QUOTE

It's these cold, frosty mornings only. Any other time the car starts no problem, morning, noon or night.

burke027

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Alternator. If the Alternator is not working fully the battery wont be getting enough of a charge, so there might be nothing wrong except a low charge in the battery, if you have a car alarm and your car is old then the alarm's own battery may have died and it is draining your car battery.

I am sure once you get it started in the morning and come back to it in the evening then it starts with little issue, does it? But the problem reappears when left over night.

The altenator isnt causing the car not to start seriously now???????
Hell you could remove the altenator and belt once you had a good battery and still start the car

listermint

Get a new battery as per manufacturers crank spec.




Close thread.

Mycroft H

listermint wrote: »

Get a new battery as per manufacturers crank spec.




Close thread.

+1

Cold weather + sluggish start = more often then not a battery struggling.

demanufactured

doolox wrote: »

Diesels may have glow plugs in the engine cylinders which need to be switched on before they start in cold weather. Also the fuel injectors may be clogged and the diesel fuel may jellify in VERY cold weather.


This may only be an issue if using a bulk tank for refuelling which may have summer grade fuel in it. Ordinary motorists refuelling from a commercial filling station should have no problem with fuel.

You may have to get a mechanic to check out the engine for badly working glow plugs or injectors.

We don't get 'summer grade" diesel here...
All garages get wintergrade....I know I worked in a few and every delivery all year round was always winter grade......
Anyway. Back to the op's problem.....

daaaycent boy

I'm in the same position as the original poster, only the last week or so since the cold weather came in is it (1.8l TDCi Focus) giving trouble. Will get my battery checked out in the next day or two.

Chris_Heilong

The battery is in a weak state due to the alternator, its the alternator that generates the electricity for your car, the battery is used for the inital jolt that starts the car then the alternator takes over. You could drive the car with no battery as once it starts.

CJhaughey

Weak Batteries will quickly die in cold weather.
Maybe your starter could be getting slow as well, but a new battery would take that doubt away.

Tea 1000

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

The battery is in a weak state due to the alternator, its the alternator that generates the electricity for your car, the battery is used for the inital jolt that starts the car then the alternator takes over. You could drive the car with no battery as once it starts.

Yes, but you don't know that's the case here. If the battery is 5 or 6 years old then it'll be nearing the end of its useful life. Cold starts being difficult is the first sign. A couple of months and it'll be every start. Change it now.

BullBauld

Thanks for all the replies.

Looks like a battery change is the order of the day.

dgt

New GS 75amp 660cca battery and the car refused to start this morning! Glow plugs ain't the best.

OP is your engine DI or IDI?

Chris_Heilong

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Yes, but you don't know that's the case here. If the battery is 5 or 6 years old then it'll be nearing the end of its useful life. Cold starts being difficult is the first sign. A couple of months and it'll be every start. Change it now.

agreed a new battery either way is the best option, with the mira batteries just make sure the + and - are the same as on your old one cause I have heard they can be different is some models.

goz83

Get bigger battery. I had a hiroof transit, which needed a new battery shortly after I bought it 2nd hand. Drove to a very reputable motor factor here in Dublin, who gave me the recommended battery, but this was smaller than the battery that was in the van. I pointed this out, but the guy said it's the rigth battery. 2 days later, I was back in there, as the battery wasn't strong enough to start the van when left for only a few hours. It worked the first time, but needed boosting after that. I changed for a bigger battery and had no problems after that.

CrowdedHouse

Slightly ot but an acquaintance of mine, who owns a tyre & battery place, told me 75% of his battery sales are between November and March

Gavman84

I'm having same trouble with my car at the moment and its 2 of the glow plugs need changing as they are fecked! What's a good price to replace 4 glow plugs I've been quoted 100?
Gav

Waterson

Before forking out for a battery, have it load tested at your local motor factors/auto electrician. Coolant temperature sensors fail religiously on TDi engines and can cause difficult starting. Check whether the one you have has a black electrical connector or a green one, if its black I could almost guarantee its failed and wont set you back more than 15 notes. Glowplugs may be the cause, again have them tested before replacing. Its a false economy to go about buying parts unless the root cause is ascertained.

ligertigon

Waterson wrote: »

Before forking out for a battery, have it load tested at your local motor factors/auto electrician. Coolant temperature sensors fail religiously on TDi engines and can cause difficult starting. Check whether the one you have has a black electrical connector or a green one, if its black I could almost guarantee its failed and wont set you back more than 15 notes. Glowplugs may be the cause, again have them tested before replacing. Its a false economy to go about buying parts unless the root cause is ascertained.

Bingo. The vag coolant temp senders signal the ecu and temp guage separately (two sensors in one) the glow plugs operate below about 9deg And sensors regularly give problems as the temp range shifts. Ironically, your car may start easier if it is even colder outside.
Disconnect the coolant sensor and see if it starts easier. Won't cost you anything...

Chimaera

You're both missing the bit where he said it starts fine with the assistance of a jumper pack. Easier warm start would be due to the oil being warm and there being less resistance to the engine turning over. I'd be willing to bet those cold starts would be easier with the clutch pedal pressed down too.

Coolant temp sensor would cause misfuelling at startup (wrong fuel map being used on startup) which would cause trouble regardless of the level of battery power available which is not the case here.

Cuddlesworth

Chimaera wrote: »

Easier warm start would be due to the oil being warm and there being less resistance to the engine turning over.

Warm engine, warm battery. Warm battery = Higher capacity.

For most old battery's a 10 degree difference can lead to a 50% reduction in capacity.

ligertigon

Chimaera wrote: »

You're both missing the bit where he said it starts fine with the assistance of a jumper pack. Easier warm start would be due to the oil being warm and there being less resistance to the engine turning over. I'd be willing to bet those cold starts would be easier with the clutch pedal pressed down too.

Coolant temp sensor would cause misfuelling at startup (wrong fuel map being used on startup) which would cause trouble regardless of the level of battery power available which is not the case here.

I agree it could be battery, but it costs nothing to disconnect the sensor. Even with a weak battery most vag's start with little effort.

BullBauld

Ok so I'm back with this problem again.

I got the car checked out before Christmas, battery was apparently fine but they said the glow plugs weren't great. Ok so I said lets get them done.

All ok until a month later same problem arises, not starting on a cold start. Once jumped it would be fine for the rest of the day until the next morning.

So I brought it back to the garage and they checked it over again. Battery ok, glow plugs ok, starter ok, alternator ok. They reckon it could be fuel pump?? But they not 100% and I'm not willing to fork out 500/600 punt to find out.

I put a different battery in it yesterday, a newish battery that was flat due to van not being used for 4 months. Got it going off another car.

It seemed to kick in alot easier with this battery but this morning it failed to start, although it wasn't far off starting. The new battery was certainly better but the car still required a jump.

This newer battery is 590 cc and 60amp. Think the old was the same.

This is doing my head in at this stage. Can't really afford too much work and certainly not a new car so I'm hoping for a solution thats not gonna cost too much.

Is the stronger battery a good shout?

Any more help appreciated.

goldenhoarde

I'm assuming that when you are starting it in the morning that you have everything off such as radio lights etc. even waiting till the interior lights are off.

As if its almost starting it may be the drain of something like the radio etc thats stopping it going!

johnayo

Replacing the battery with one that was flat is not going to help you to decide if this is the solution. If the other battery went completely flat, then it may never fully recover unfortunately. You are probably better off biting the bullet and replacing the battery with a proper new one. I know that these are not cheap but it looks like it could be the best option.

bucketybuck

Its still your battery.

Philip82

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its still your battery.

You wud have thought the penny would have dropped by now!!!

Some people just love hardship, seriously, go and buy a decent size battery for God sake. If it jump starts no problem with the other car either rob that battery or simply get one like it..
For the life of me I cant understand why you would waste money changing glow plugs when it starts first go when connected to a proper battery:eek::eek:

Bpmull

Go out buy and Bosch s3 battery with a high cold start capacity and get one with a higher current value then your own I.e. if yours is 60amps get a 70amp just make sure it's the right size. Then watch your car start in any weather. Your battery is probably borderline that's why it won't start in the cold.

dieselbug

It's possible your battery is being drained overnight (parasitic drain) Does it turn over sluggish in the morning? Does the glow plug light come in the morning and how long does it stay on for? Did you try disconnecting the temp sensor? Are the glow plugs actually getting a feed? Did the garage test when the car was cold?

These are not a difficult engine to start and should be fairly easy to diagnose what the problem is. What year is the car? what milage? regularly serviced?

Matt Simis

Had a similar problem on a 535d.. suspected the battery and changed it, was slightly better for a while. Then suspected the glowplugs.. but before doing that had someone look at the Starter. It was twisted and physically coming apart and the source of the problem.

Taking more and more power to spin it was creating a condition that looked like a glowplug problem. In summer was fine, in winter, took upto 30seconds of cranking on cold starts but nearly instant on warm starts.

BullBauld

Philip82 wrote: »

You wud have thought the penny would have dropped by now!!!

Some people just love hardship, seriously, go and buy a decent size battery for God sake. If it jump starts no problem with the other car either rob that battery or simply get one like it..
For the life of me I cant understand why you would waste money changing glow plugs when it starts first go when connected to a proper battery:eek::eek:

Ok ok calm down there. No need to get so excited about my battery. I was only going on what the garage told me, that the battery was fine and the glow plugs were dodgy so that why they were changed. I'm not the expert so took their advice as to be good.

Anyways I took the advice of the people who said get a new battery. Got a 70amp battery and while it started it was not at the first turn of the key, was still a bit sluggish. But it started is the main thing.

Thanks for all the advice.

Matt Simis

Its still your Starter motor..

BullBauld

Think it just the car in general!

dieselbug

We'l talk about it again in part 3 next winter:)

biko

If it's cold, in most cases it's the battery.
Cold makes things that usually works act up and if you're not used to winter it's easy to think it's something else.

BullBauld

Indeed. Can't bate a bit of unnecessary hardship...especially in Winter.