Need some help/advise

GoingCrazy

Hi...I am new here...I found this site trying to seek out help/advise for something that has been driving me crazy for a little over a year....I am at my breaking point.

I am a parent of a 17 year old girl. A little over a year ago she met this girl. I thought they were just friends, played sports together, sleep over's....Well, I found letters that led me to believe otherwise. I did not snoop, they were just laying on the floor. My ex-husband and I confronted her about the letters (intense letters) and she denied being gay or bi. She finally said that she would only be with "her". She also said that everyone at school is bi or gay and it's no big deal.

She started sneaking around and lying just to see her...trying to use her friends' house to have sleep over's. I caught most of them. She even used her grandmother once...told me she wanted to spend time with her and was at her house no more than an hour and had the "girl" and her dad come pick her up....grandmother never called me to ask if it was ok....how sad. I absolutely hate the lies!

The relationship they have, in my eyes, is not a very good one...they have broke up and got back together so many times.....the girl is very controlling and manipulative. Back towards the end of school last year they were "together" and she would not let her go to a party...even my daughter's friends were telling her the same thing that I was...This girl told my daughter "fine, go, but don't come crying to me when you end up pregnant"....we were like what? So that just tells me that she is very insecure and thinks my daughter might realize she's not gay and be with a boy. (she has not been with a boy)

I do not think that my daughter is gay or bi...i really don't. I think she wants to be in a relationship so bad...and this girl really lays it on thick, that she likes the feeling she is getting from her...I do not know if they have really "been" together or not...I have caught her on the phone with her while she was...ya know....but really can't say for sure how far they have actually gone.

It has been hard dealing with the thought that she is gay/bi, not really what I was expecting. But if that is the life she wants to lead then I need to handle it the best I can. The hard part--I can not stand the "girl". She is rude and disrespectful...she is really ugly on the inside...not a good person.

The really hard part - from what I know - this girls parents do not know she is gay. When they were together the first time I told my daughter that I would let her see her, but only if she told her parents....the girl refused. Told her that her parents beat her and hit her and it would not be good if they knew...then proceeded to ask me if I was going to get a restraining order on her. (that really confused me) I think it was all a lie just so she could keep her little arrangement she has going....she has lots of sleep over's....right under her parents roof!

I want to tell this girls parents (I have her moms e-mail). I have typed up 3 e-mails so far, but have not pressed "send". My daughter told me that she thinks her parents suspect something is going on.

My daughter has one more year of school - she is already being sassy and telling me she can do what she wants when she is 18...yes she can...but she will be 18 almost all of her senior year....is it not my job as a parent to get her through school? I am thinking about the ole "you do as I say as long as you live under my roof"...

So...sorry this has been long...but alot of info needed to say.

So... Should I tell the girls' parents? I am trying to protect my daughter from a bad person...but I guess I can't. I keep thinking this would be easier if it was with a different girl....I am trying to keep them from having "relations"...I know that's what I am really doing.....I will let them see each other...but I want her parents to know...I need help with this....is that so wrong? I realize now that I will be outing her...but they are just kids...

Any advise or thoughts would be appreciated.....

Peregrinus

This is a tough one.

I think it might help if a couple of issues were disentangled.

First, would it bother you if your daughter were gay or bi, rather than straight? If it would bother you - or if your daughter thinks it would bother you - this complicates matters considerably, because whatever you say to your daughter is likely to be seen by her through a hostile lens, so to speak; she will assume that your objective is to end her relationship because it is a same-sex relationship. So I think it would help if you could sit down with her and tell her that all that matters to you is her happiness and welfare, and that anyone, male or female, who loves her and treats her properly will be loved and accepted by you.

Secondly, you also need to tell her that she chooses her relationships and her partners, not you, and that you understand this. But she’s seventeen and she lives at home and she’s your daughter, and all these factors give you a legitimate interest in, and concern about, her romantic life. If she is gay or bi, that doesn’t get her a get-out-of-jail-free card when it comes to negotiating her romantic relationships and her home relationships. So age-appropriate controls or bans on sleepovers or curfews or whatever are fine; if you wouldn’t let your 17-year old daughter sleep over with a boyfriend, then not letting her sleep over with a girlfriend is no different. Again, it will be easier for her to see this if she genuinely understands and accepts that you are not judgmental of her sexual orientation.

Thirdly, if she had a boyfriend who was treating her badly, you’d be equally concerned - and equally powerless to do much about it. At seventeen, her self-respect demands that she not let her parents choose, or have a veto over, her romantic partners. There isn’t a great deal you can do about this situation except to try to instil in your daughter the self-confidence and self-respect to know when she is being badly treated, and to know when it’s time to break up and move on.

Fourthly, I think you can honest say to her that openness is important. If her involvement in this relationship causes her to be deceitful to her parents and family, in your view that’s a serious black mark against the relationship, and against her own maturity and readiness for romantic and emotional involvement. And you can say that you are also concerned that your daughter’s friend is deceiving her own parents. Obviously, it could be true that the girl’s parents would react badly if they knew she was in a same-sex relationship, and there has to be some allowance for that. But, still, this degree of deceit and dishonesty does not make for a healthy relationship.

You should not tell the other girl’s parents. Outing is wrong in principle, and in addition in this situation it would probably suggest to your daughter that you are not to be trusted. But you could say to your daughter that, so long as this relationship involves dishonesty and concealment, you will remain unhappy about it. Difficult and all as it may be for your daughter’s girlfriend to come out to her parents, as long as she doesn’t, and so has to conceal her relationship, that degrades the relationship.

From what you say, your daughter’s partner doesn’t sound terribly mature, even for her age, and of course your daughter may not be especially mature either. In the short term, I’m afraid that makes for a degree of grief and drama, but it gives you a sort of back-handed hope; this relationship is unlikely to last the course. Lots of us were involved in dramatic emotional relationships at 17, and most of us were in a completely different place a year later, because we’d grown up a bit.

In short, support your daughter and make sure she knows she is loved and respected. Set what you think are appropriate boundaries, and make the expectation of honesty and openness one of those boundaries. In the end she has to negotiate her way through this relationship, and you can be cautiously optimistic that she will negotiate her way out of it. You probably can’t do much to accelerate the process.

stephen_n

To start with there is the issue of being a parent, like most parents you want protect your daughter, this is natural. However the power struggle that exists in all children as they grow up and develop into young adults. The attempt to assert independence of choice is normal and also nessecary in the development of humans, so pushing back against this is futile at best or detremental to your daughter at worst. You don't agree with her choice of partner but by standing against this, you will only succeed in making her dig in, where as if you allow it run its course naturally, then it will do just that. One of the hardest jobs we face as parents, is trusting in our children and the foundations we have given them. If you have supported and loved your daughter, given her a secure base to operate from, then she will be fine in the long run. Yes she will make mistakes and probably cause herself pain along the way, as they say "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional" so these are the lessons she will need to learn as a young adult and its your job to be there when she falls.

On the issue of her sexuality, there are serious issues you need to address and questions you have to ask yourself around this. I'm sure the idea your daughter might be gay has come as a shock and will cause you a certain amount of difficulty but it is your responsibility to learn and adjust. Firstly you say "if that's the life she chooses" being gay/bi is not a choice, did you choose to be straight? We are what we are, whatever that may be and you need to get your head around that, if you are going to be able to support and love your daughter for who she is. Secondly you say "you don't think she is gay/bi, but desperately wants a relationship" this thought process is inherently flawed, if all she wanted was a relationship, seeking out a girl would be highly illogical as it would be far easier for her to get what she wants with a boy. The fact she has never had a boyfriend at 17 (that you know of) might be unusual in modern terms, if in fact she is straight. However, the only person who has the right to decide, is your daughter and if, as she probably is, picking up on your confusion, it would be very hard for her to be honest with you about it. The challenge is to ask yourself are you genuinely open to supporting her and if so how to demonstrate that support!

marcus2000

GoingCrazy wrote: »

She finally said that she would only be with "her". She also said that everyone at school is bi or gay and it's no big deal.

That's really the line that alot of gay/bi people use when first coming to terms with their sexuality. It was a few years before I admitted to myself that I was gay and that I wasnt just in love with one particular person, who happened to be the same sex. It just makes it easier at the start!! whether she is gay or not gay, she will come to terms with it in her own time, herself.

GoingCrazy wrote: »

She started sneaking around and lying just to see her.......how sad. I absolutely hate the lies!

This is normal. She is going through a lot at the moment, and as happy and honest a relationship she may have with her family/friends, coming out and possibly 'disappointing' her family is just something that doesnt come easy.....Give it time.......be supportive....

GoingCrazy wrote: »

The relationship they have, in my eyes, is not a very good one...
</QUOTE]

That quite possibly could be true, but it's for her to discover
She wont thank you for meddling. You need to be there if/when it falls apart. Thats what family and friends are for.

GoingCrazy wrote: »

I do not think that my daughter is gay or bi</quote>

She probably isnt sure herself yet but parents are blinded anyway. Your sexuality is determined by the people you are attracted to, not a physical or personality characteristic. You have no way of knowing and you really shouldn't interfere in this. Its so hard (or it was for me) and coming out with statements like this just makes it harder. She will find herself at some point. Thats when she will need you most.

GoingCrazy wrote: »

The hard part--I can not stand the "girl". She is rude and disrespectful...she is really ugly on the inside...not a good person.

Maybe. Maybe not. We all see people differently. Your daughter obviously sees something in her. The pressures of being a teenager AND discovering you're a lesbian is a lot to handle - which is what both girls are going through - Support really is the best medicine here.

GoingCrazy wrote: »

I want to tell this girls parents (I have her moms e-mail).
</quote]

Your motivation here isnt to help the girl, you are just looking for a means to end the relationship. Irrelevant to what you may think you know, it is not your place. This is between her and her mum. Its personal and has nothing to do with you. IMHO, doing this would be considered far worse than "rude / disrespectful...and really ugly on the inside". You need to forget that this is a lesbian relationship, forget outting people. The relationship will probably reach it's conclusion at some point, and then you jump in and tell your daughter that you love her and everything will be ok.

GoingCrazy

Thank you so much for your reply's.

I do have a problem with her being gay/bi. I have not had many people in my life that I knew or thought were gay. I really wanted grandchildren, to see her grow up and mature, have a family, all the things that most parents want for their children. Letting go of that "picture" is hard. But it is something that I will have to deal with and accept or I will be pushing her away, I do realize that.

But I know it is her life. I know that being gay is not a choice, I do feel that you are born that way, I have always believed that. I know that she has to make her own way, find her path. I think that I have raised her to be a good person, make her choices, and for her to know that there are concequences for her actions.

I have sat her down and talked to her about this relationship. How being honest and open with me would make the whole situation easier for both of us. I did this after I started seeing a change in her. Her grades drop when she is with her, her attitude changes, she stays locked up in her room on the phone or on skype with her. It's like everything else is dropped and she is wrapped up completely with her. That's why I feel so strongly that this is a unhealthy relationship.

The talk went like this. I told her I have been noticing a change in her and wanted to know if they were back together. She said no that they were just talking every once in a while. The next day she did not have school so she wanted to spend the night with a friend. I said ok. That day her and 3 friends borrowed a car and went to the "girls" school (she did have school) just so my daughter could see her. They were almost arrested at the other school for criminal tresspass. They boy that went with them is 18, he could have been in serious trouble. What she told our principal was they were just going to "surprise" her. That was a lie. The girl knew she was coming and had a necklace and a shirt ready to give her. The other 3 kids, they did not know about the plan. They thought they were just going shopping. She got them in trouble and I do not see any remorse in her. She's happy cause she got what she wanted, the other 3 kids were punished more because they are currently in sports and had to miss 2 games each.

I aked her to be honest and what did she do. She lied. My trust is completely broken now. I pretty much have to assume that she is going to lie about everything. And yes, this makes me feel that this girl is a trouble maker. My daughter gets in trouble and she did not. She gets to do whatever she wants and there are no boundaries for her. I am the only person in her way between her and my daughter.

The whole "if this were a boy" issue is exactly that. A boy's mother would not let her son go spend the night with a girl. So right now, being that her parents are in the dark, she gets to say "hey mom, going to spend the night with my friend", the mom says ok. Bam, she just got to be with her girlfriend. They are going to try to see each other and they will keep it a secret and use whatever friend they can use to accomplish that goal. I am the only one fighting that fight. I feel so alone and helpless at this point. I would not want her sleeping with a boy and I don't want her sleeping with her either. I am the only one who knows and am trying to keep it from happening. Her friends are helping her. I have no one helping me. Her father has washed his hands of the whole deal. He said and I quote "she lives with you, it's your problem". But I expected that from him, yes there is a reason we are divorced.

I am on an emotional roller coaster. She lies, I get mad, she feeds off of my anger and says things to make me mad on purpose. I take away her phone and computer at night so she is not up till 2 or 3 in the morning talking to her, yes I caught her before. When I go to get it, she has this smirk on her face and says in a minute and looks at the computer, so I know the girl can hear what we are saying and is probably laughing at me. I get no respect from her and I do not know why. I have done everything I can for her, her dad has done nothing. This girl has changed her, and not for the better. I hate to see it happening, and I know I can't stop it. They laugh and think it's funny. I never disrespected my mother. This is killing me.

Yes, I guess my motivation for telling her parents was for 2 things. One, to maybe break them up. Two, get some help with the lies and the sneaking around. They would not have to sneak anymore, they could be honest and not have to lie. Is the lie part of the excitement? If they don't have to lie anymore, would the relationship die out?

Annasopra

Have you thought of contacting LOOK?

http://www.lovingouroutkids.org/assets/files/LOOK.pdf

www.lovingouroutkids.org/

Annasopra

GoingCrazy wrote: »

I do have a problem with her being gay/bi. I have not had many people in my life that I knew or thought were gay. I really wanted grandchildren, to see her grow up and mature, have a family, all the things that most parents want for their children. Letting go of that "picture" is hard. But it is something that I will have to deal with and accept or I will be pushing her away, I do realize that.

To be honest you need to let go of this. At the end of the day I think once she is happy in her life you should be happy.

I think as well you shouldn't make any assumptions. She might at some stage in the future be in a joint parenting relationship with a man or woman.

GoingCrazy

Peregrinus,

Thank you for your post, I keep reading it over and over. I love my daughter whether she is gay or bi or straight. I have told her I just want her to be in a good relationship and that this one is unhealthy. Some of her friends have told her the same thing. But she is still in it. Unfortunatly this girl plays alot of head games with her. I dealt with that kind of abuse with my Ex, and it is not good or healthy, that's why I had to get out, for my own sanity.

For her boundaries are just some stupid rules to be broken. She has lied so many times that I think that is all she knows to do now. Alot of what you said are things I have already told her. She does not think she is being treated badly, but she is. I feel she is really being manipulated by this girl. I hate the feeling of being helpless/powerless. I do have to keep reminding myself that would I do that if it were a boy, could I stop it if it were a boy. The deceit is what kills me the most.

So here are my thoughts of some rules/boundaries, see if you think they are logical.

1. No Sleep overs with anyone - no trust.
2. She is not allowed in my house when I am not home, summer is coming.
3. I will let you see her for going to the mall, movies, dinner, short visits.
4. Respect and honesty from BOTH of you - if not, it's over.
5. If I catch you in a lie and it involves her - no more visits.
6. Being 18 DOES NOT change any of this.
7. If you can't follow the rules, then there are consequences.

I know one reason she lies to me about her is because she knows I do not like her at all. But the lies only make it worse. I want to support her, be there for her, be there for her when this ends badly, which I am sure it will. But I hate being stepped on in the process. I will support her sexual orientation, be it what it may, not really sure at this point and I don't think she knows either. I worry about aids and STD's, this girl has been with other girls who may have been with boys. They sleep around like it's nothing. That really scares me. The kids of today see sex as nothing, each week there is someone else. I can't understand that.

Thank you for your input.....

Sebas19

Wow, This is a big problem, I'd like to say too many things to help you but my English is not good enough to express them but just wanted to say How wonderfull and Strong mother you are!

I think if you think she is not really gay/bi she will realized at some point, However you have to be prepared if She actually is! Im gay 19 and my parents will never understand, this is not something I chost! and being gay make live so much harder. dont stop supporting your Daughter, You seems a good person, She may be the same, When we are teenegers cant see how important are our parents until you learn that life is not easy at all, Said that you might let her learn by herself that this is a mistake DX