What to budget for Insulation.

Going Demented

I was wondering could anyone give me an idea of what to put in to budget for Insulation. It is the only cost i have not got yet. I have put in 20k for insulation but i am wondering if that would cover it.

1750 square foot bungalow. I know no one can tell me but could you tell me if i need to up this figure so i don't die of shock.

I don't know if this will help someone to answer.

Roof Finish
Provide and lay between joists 160mm thick Kingspan Kooltherm
K7 underlined with Kingspan Kooltherm K17 insulation
comprising of 12.5mm plasterboard with 30mm insulation
Provide between sloping roof rafters Kingspan Kooltherm K7 Pitched roof
board 140mm thick underlined with Kingspan Kooltherm K17 comprising of
12.5mm plasterboard with 30 insulation along pitch of roof with skim finish
and 3 coats of dulux emulsion paint

Wall Contaruction;
300mm cavity wall
100mm inner leaf concrete clock with 20mm cavity with
Kingspan Kooltherm K8 cavity board 80mm thick and 100mm outer leaf concrete
Block .

Cavity to be closed with cavity closer block with
Kingspan Thermawall TW50 zero ODP 25mm
cold bridge insulation and vertical DPC. Or Equal Approved

Window/Door head is to be constructed with concrete lintel
with cold bridge insulation finished internally with 12.5mm
plaster with skim coat finish and 3 coats dulux emulsion paint

Floor Construction:
...... Provide and lay on the DPM 80mm thick Kingspan Kooltherm K3 insulation close butted and with 25mm strips vertically against vertical dpm on all external walls for the full depth of the concrete slab and screed. Extruded
polystyrene to be grade E2 or E3 to Bs 3837: part 2. Lay 1:2:4 concrete floor, 150mm thick and
powerfloat to a perfectly smooth and even surface to receive floor finishes specified later......

Certified

Going Demented wrote: »

I was wondering could anyone give me an idea of what to put in to budget for Insulation. It is the only cost i have not got yet. I have put in 20k for insulation but i am wondering if that would cover it.

Hi just to give you a rough idea of the possible insulation budget. The last bungalow I was involved with had a budget of approx €10,000 incl vat. It was a 1,900 ft2. However, it was specified to very high levels such as 500mm rockwool prime for the attic, 300mm pumped EPS for the walls and 300mm EPSfor the floor.

Just wondering why 'Kooltherm' is specified throughout? It is a very expensive product and should only really be used where space restrictions require it.
Personally I would not be happy with that insulation specification detail both from a cost and also a performance perspective.

Going Demented

I don't know. That's what we were given. I know zero about insulation. My brother looked at the plans and said what was in the floor isn't enough.
Who would i talk to about those details we got if they are way off. Whatever needs to be spent on insulation we will.

muffler

Going Demented wrote: »

Who would i talk to about those details we got if they are way off. Whatever needs to be spent on insulation we will.

You need a BER assessor in any event so get someone who comes recommended and let them guide you through the various insulation options.

Going Demented

Thanks Muffler. Will get onto that now. Architect told us we didn't need one the three times i asked about it. Said we only needed a BER cert if we were renting or selling.

muffler

Going Demented wrote: »

Thanks Muffler. Will get onto that now. Architect told us we didn't need one the three times i asked about it. Said we only needed a BER cert if we were renting or selling.

Unfortunately your architect is slightly behind the times

Im not going to blind you with technicalities but when your house is completed you are legally obliged to have a BER cert for it regardless of what you do with the house. You will be required (under law) to achieve an A3 rating and to achieve that you have to ensure that the house is constructed to certain standards and with certain materials.

The builder will need to know what products and techniques to use to get the A3 rating and this is where your BER assessor come into play. Apart from all that and prior to actually commencing the works the Building Control department of your local council will now also require detailed calculations to demonstrate that house will, if built in accordance with the plans and spec, achieve the appropriate rating.

Next man/woman into your shopping trolly now is the BER assessor.

DOCARCH

From a quick glance through, to me, the spec seems about 5 years out of date and will not result in a build that complies with current Building Regulations.

+1 to Mufflers advice above. Next step is to have a Preliminary BER done.

Going Demented

Can i go back to the architect seeing as he was paid for the construction plans? He is also overseeing the build.
I find him so contrary and impossible that he will probably ate me and there would be no build.

I will also follow Mufflers advice as always.

DOCARCH

By all means go back to the architect but might be worth getting preliminary BER done first and then throw that on their desk!

What sort of 'architect' do you have? Registered?

Going Demented

Yes he's registered.

I am thinking of asking him for a recommendation for a BER assessor even though he insisted until he was blue in the face that we did not need one.

DOCARCH

Going Demented wrote: »

Yes he's registered.

Honestly, not having a go at you but I actually find that hard to believe! Or, he is living in some sort of bubble?

What, if any, letters are after his name on his letterhead?

I was going to put up link to register of architects (so you could double check) but the RIAI site/register is down at the moment. When it's up I'll post link again.

Back OT, I would get an independent assessor to do BER and then go back to the 'architect' and simply tell him to design you a proper house!!!

Going Demented

RIAI RIBA ?

Design a proper house?
Would i be going back to planning again?

Going Demented

I meant to say it's ok to have a go at me, it's how i will get knowledge.

Those plans went out to builders and quotes came back on them.

Can anyone recommend a BER Assessor in the Waterford Co. Area please.

DOCARCH

Going Demented wrote: »

RIAI RIBA ?

If they are member of the RIAI, at least you might have some comeback. I'd still double check the register to make sure! I still find it hard to believe somebody is designing/specifying a new house with a 100mm wide cavity!

At least a preliminary BER will show pretty quickly whether or not the house complies or not.

Any allowance for renewable energy? Any mention of air tightness and/or having an air tightness test carried out during the build?

It might not be as dramatic or drastic as having to go back to planning but many of your specifications may have to change and your external wall thicknesses may have to get a little wider.

My query about the architect being registered is really in relation to that if you find (by means of BER) that your house does not comply and you go back to your architect and he refuses to re-work the plans/specifications or simply opts out of the project, at least you might have some recourse in that you could make a complaint to the RIAI/registrar.

fealeranger

The guy's are correct to say to get the building spec BER for the house design. It will cost under €250 and may save you thousands in insulation afterwards. As was mentioned in a previous post an expensive solution is not always the best or cost effective. Insulation can be expensive so it is good to get it correct from the start.

Going Demented

Sparks flying in my house tonight over this architect tonight. I am glad i asked this simple question to get your responses about the plans and that i do indeed need a BER. Architect said no and my partner agreed with the architect all along. This is one of a long list of issues i've had with him. My partner is a quiet man and believes everything he is told by a professional.
Thank you for all the advice. I am searching for a BER assessor. I have no one to give me a recommendation so i have found some companies and will go to the City tomorrow and try to sort this out. Thanks again.
I have no idea what are wrong with the walls. None of the builders that came back with quotes mentioned any issue they saw with the walls.

Going Demented

Meant to say no mention of an air tightness test.
He stated we needed a stove in the kitchen and we need get a certain pressure boiler something or other. That was all he stated. He has to be there the day of marking out the house, when foundations are poured. We cannot go above 6.2m for the height of the house, that is a condition from the council.

sydthebeat

DOCARCH wrote: »

If they are member of the RIAI, at least you might have some comeback. I'd still double check the register to make sure! I still find it hard to believe somebody is designing/specifying a new house with a 100mm wide cavity!

At least a preliminary BER will show pretty quickly whether or not the house complies or not.

Any allowance for renewable energy? Any mention of air tightness and/or having an air tightness test carried out during the build?

It might not be as dramatic or drastic as having to go back to planning but many of your specifications may have to change and your external wall thicknesses may have to get a little wider.

My query about the architect being registered is really in relation to that if you find (by means of BER) that your house does not comply and you go back to your architect and he refuses to re-work the plans/specifications or simply opts out of the project, at least you might have some recourse in that you could make a complaint to the RIAI/registrar.

it would not be unheard of AT ALL for some older RIAI members to be behind the curve when it comes to the technical aspects of architecture.

thats why you should divide the professional engagement up into stages and engage an architect for the aesthetic design and an architectural technician for the construction design.

DOCARCH

sydthebeat wrote: »

it would not be unheard of AT ALL for some older RIAI members to be behind the curve when it comes to the technical aspects of architecture.

The reason for my surprise, is that if the architect is registered, every registered architect must complete 40 hours CPD (Continuing Professional Development) per year - the likes of training, attending courses, lectures, etc., i.e. keeping up to date! It is a statutory requirement - if you do not complete you can be struck off the register.

It is actually very hard to avoid learning about new regulations!

For a registered to choose to ignore new regulations or keep up to date (or put their head in the sand) is simple negligence.

@ Syd. I'd suggest your comment could apply to older AT's as well? As far as I am aware, there is no statutory requirement for AT's to undertake CPD?

sydthebeat

DOCARCH wrote: »

The reason for my surprise, is that if the architect is registered, every registered architect must complete 40 hours CPD (Continuing Professional Development) per year - the likes of training, attending courses, lectures, etc., i.e. keeping up to date! It is a statutory requirement - if you do not complete you can be struck off the register.

It is actually very hard to avoid learning about new regulations!

For a registered to choose to ignore new regulations or keep up to date (or put their head in the sand) is simple negligence.

@ Syd. I'd suggest your comment could apply to older AT's as well? As far as I am aware, there is no statutory requirement for AT's to undertake CPD?

without attempting to drag this off topic, but could i suggest that an Architect could survive professionally not being up to speed on regs, whereas a technician would certainly struggle

i certainly agree that both professions do need to remain educated, and while there is no statutory register of Technicians in Ireland, membership of CIAT requires CPD hours to be undertaken each year also.

DOCARCH

Maybe I'm just more shocked that not everybody works to the same (very high) standard that I do!

Back on topic, @ going demented, keep us up to date. It's always good to know (for everybody) how things pan out.

sydthebeat

DOCARCH wrote: »

Maybe I'm just more shocked that not everybody works to the same (very high) standard that I do! .

wheat and chaff

DOCARCH

Here you go, back online - http://www.riai.ie/register/the_register_of_architects/

I would suggest the OP double checks that their architect is registered.

If you find your architect has not given you a proper service at least there is some hope to have the issues resolved.

Going Demented

Yes he is on it.
Thanks all.

DOCARCH

Going Demented wrote: »

Yes he is on it.
Thanks all.

Keep us up to date. It's always good to know how things pan out.

Going Demented

Thank you. I will be back to update. I am dealing with getting this BER done and have got a few quotes in today. So thank you for that.

I got this from kingspan.
Please find insulation recommendations to achieve an approximate A3 Energy Rating.

Ground Floor – 100mm K3 achieves a U-value of 0.15 W/m²K

Cavity – 60mm K8 in the cavity with 37.5mm K18 (incl 12.5mm plasterboard) internally achieves a U-value of 0.19 W/m²K

Low Level Attic Stud Walls – 100mm K7 between studs (taken at 400mm ctrs) with 37.5mm K18 (incl 12.5mm plasterboard) internally achieves a U-value of 0.20 W/m²K

Sloping/Flat Ceiling – 140mm K7 between ceiling joist/rafters (taken at 400mm ctrs) with 42.5mm K18 (incl 12.5mm plasterboard) fixed to the underside of the rafters/joists achieves a U-value of 0.14 W/m²K

Our Sales Dept will be in contact with prices.

fealeranger

Shop around. Kingspan is only one brand out there. There a few more with material of the same U values or even better U value and they are cheaper. No point paying hundreds or thousands more for the same type product. Products with famous names are not always the most economically efficient.

fealeranger

fealeranger wrote: »

Shop around. Kingspan is only one brand out there. There a few more with material of the same U values or even better U value and they are cheaper. No point paying hundreds or thousands more for the same type product. Products with famous names are not always the most economically efficient.

Could you PM those, thanks fealeranger.

MicktheMan

Going Demented wrote: »

Thank you. I will be back to update. I am dealing with getting this BER done and have got a few quotes in today. So thank you for that.

I got this from kingspan.
Please find insulation recommendations to achieve an approximate A3 Energy Rating.

Ground Floor – 100mm K3 achieves a U-value of 0.15 W/m²K

Cavity – 60mm K8 in the cavity with 37.5mm K18 (incl 12.5mm plasterboard) internally achieves a U-value of 0.19 W/m²K

Low Level Attic Stud Walls – 100mm K7 between studs (taken at 400mm ctrs) with 37.5mm K18 (incl 12.5mm plasterboard) internally achieves a U-value of 0.20 W/m²K

Sloping/Flat Ceiling – 140mm K7 between ceiling joist/rafters (taken at 400mm ctrs) with 42.5mm K18 (incl 12.5mm plasterboard) fixed to the underside of the rafters/joists achieves a U-value of 0.14 W/m²K

Our Sales Dept will be in contact with prices.

As insulation is only one half of a good heat loss plan, has your arch set a target for airtightness and how has he/she proposed to achieve this target?

AnarchistKen

Just from a cost point of view you can always shop for alternative manufacturers. Kingspan are great with what they do and include good customer support and information but can fairly pricey. Kooltherm as mentioned previously is an expensive product. Kingspan do a line of polyiso products which will perform to u-values required. In addition to Kingspan you will also get good prices from Xtratherm.

I saved a nice few bob on a job recently enough by taking the above approach.

Best of luck