Purchased phone & contract with 3 Mobile Friday it's faulty won't replace at P of P

shrtdrk

I moved to 3 mobile & purchased an iPhone 4S Friday 23rd 1:56. I was told syncing it with my Mac would connect it to the 3 mobile system when it recognised the 3 mobile sim card. It wasn't compatible with my Mac. I spent nearly six hours talking to Apple to get the phone to sync to an XP Machine. I could not receive calls because my number hadn't been ported. On Saturday I found out the shop staff tried to port a different number on my behalf of course O2 refused. That was an unpleasant conversation with O2 too. So I had no Phone Friday


Saturday morning I went back to the store where I purchased the phone.

I was told her colleague should have told me that phone wasn't compatible with my Mac. She then set the phone to the 3 network. She also told me 3 mobile wouldn't replace an Apple phone even if the staff opened it in the shop and discovered a fault before purchase. [This is contrary to my rights as a consumer in Ireland see Citizens Information: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...n_ireland.html] (clearly she knew something I didn't)

If things go wrong
• If you have a problem with an item that you have bought it is always the seller who should put things right. As a general rule, the seller can either repair or replace the item. Alternatively, they can refund the costs of the item or service to the consumer.

If you are not satisfied with the quality of goods or services you can:

• Return the goods to the supplier who sold it to you (you should not return the goods to the manufacturer)
• Act as soon as you can – a delay can indicate that you have accepted faulty goods or services
• Do not attempt to repair the item yourself or give it to anyone else to repair it
• Make sure that you have a proof of purchase (a receipt, cheque stub, credit card statement or invoice)

I went outside and made a phone call and discovered the speaker had a very low volume. The speaker phone didn't work, the volume buttons didn't make much difference. I went back around the corner to the shop and was told it was a setting, to play with the phone. I spent too much time Saturday googling and comparing the settings with those of my iPhone 3.

I sorted the number porting via many calls to the 1913, 087 333 3333 3 mobile customer care centre. (Indian call Centre)

Playing with the phone I discovered
playing music no sound:
playing a You Tube video: no sound.
Incoming call: no alert tone the phone just vibrates.
Photos taken with the flash were over exposed.

I could only hear iTunes, You Tube with the head phones plugged in.

Sunday Morning after 8:00am I surfed the net, later when I tried again through out the day there was no 3G service on the phone, no internet whether I was in Wexford or Kilkenny, it was just as well I knew where I was going I wouldn't have been able to access maps.


Monday Morning I switched the phone off and on the 3G internet returned. I phoned Apple about the sound and a few other issues. A hard restart of the phone pressing both off buttons until the apple appeared. Fixed the flash problem, not the sound issue. We did a restore software to phone. I now had two case numbers from Apple a total of 4 phone calls over two days Friday and that morning. I had done everthing I could to establish that the problem wasn't with the settings nor a software issue.

I returned to the store. It was repeated they wouldn't replace the iPhone. They offered to send the iPhone to Apple and they would let me borrow a very dirty old Nokia until it returned repaired. This bothered me much on both accounts. I said I needed to sync the phone before it could go any where.

At home I sent another message to Apple via their quick response service again they phoned me immediately. http://www.apple.com/ie/support/iphone/contact/

They confirmed the hardware was faulty and that under Irish consumer law as I was within the 28 days of purchase. The shop had to replace the phone with a brand new phone. If Apple replaced it they would be replacing it with a repaired phone and so close to purchase date, that would be unfair.


I went to the shop no, no, no replacement. She phoned her area manager no, no, no replacement, She emailed a supervisor in Dublin they were out of office. She tried another and would phone me with the result. Later no, no, no replacement. I had to contact customer care. That call went to the Indian call centre again, a woman this time. They whispered down the phone at me so my recording isn't great. We argued for a long time.

Send it to a repair centre. I explained it's with in 28 days of purchase. I was put on hold. Bring it to a repair centre. I explained it's with in 28 days of my purchasing the phone I should receive a brand new phone from where I purchased it. I was told there are 4 repair centers in Ireland. 2 in Dublin, 1 in Cork and 1 in Limerick. The nearest repair center 130Km away, not a pop into job. She followed up on the Apple Case ID's. We argued more same old same old over and back. I was put on hold a few times. Eventually she said she post out a bag and to put phone, packaging contents and paper work, apple details in and send it to repair centre. They'd send a new phone sealed in packaging by return. She would NOT! send me an email or anything conforming this. I'd be with out a phone for at least two days.

At 5 to 6 I received another call on the mobile. (Indian woman) Telling me to bring the bag to a local post office and send it straight back. I asked her to repeat the message I couldn't hear her properly. She did from the top.

This is supposed to happen next Wednesday or Thursday. I don't know if I'm being fobbed off or whether my problem is being dealt with.

So what is the deal with getting out of my contract. I suggested similar to the woman in the 3 mobile store where I purchased the phone last Friday. I suggested closing that contract and opening another as a means of replacing the phone. They didn't like that idea in the local store.


In short 3 mobile sold me faulty phone last Friday (23rd November 2012) and the following Monday (26th November 2012) 3 mobile refuse to replace it at the point of purchase with a new phone.

Indeed refuse to replace it at the point of purchase full stop.

I'm within the 28 days of purchase.

Have established the problem does not stem from a software issue.

The Apple guy in the 3 store where the phone was purchased acknowledged the phone does not work as it should. ie no loud speaker. What sound comes through during a phone call is obliterated by ambient sound. no music, no you tube sound, no incoming call alert sound.

& yes everybody either checked or asked about the mute button.


I sent ComReg an email last night but no reply as yet

Procrastastudy

Brevity doesn't seem to be your strong point - clarity is though to be fair.

Why do you think you are entitled to a replacement inside 28 days?

As far as I'm aware there are a number of requirements on both sides;

• Retailer must be given a reasonable time to inspect the goods
• A replacement OR repair must be provided without significant inconvenience
• The repair / replacement is up to you to negotiate with the retailer

You can't force the replacement; you can however repudiate the contract and if required pursue them in the small claims court. I'd suggest sending them a registered letter giving them ten working days to resolve the issue and then proceed with the SmCC if you don't get any joy. Failing that go straight to the SmCC.

Esoteric_

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Brevity doesn't seem to be your strong point - clarity is though to be fair.

Why do you think you are entitled to a replacement inside 28 days?

As far as I'm aware there are a number of requirements on both sides;

• Retailer must be given a reasonable time to inspect the goods
• A replacement OR repair must be provided without significant inconvenience
• The repair / replacement is up to you to negotiate with the retailer

You can't force the replacement; you can however repudiate the contract and if required pursue them in the small claims court. I'd suggest sending them a registered letter giving them ten working days to resolve the issue and then proceed with the SmCC if you don't get any joy. Failing that go straight to the SmCC.

The majority (if not all) of phone retailers have a store policy of replacement or refund within 28 days if the phone is faulty. I know Meteor have signs all over their stores with this policy. Surely they're bound to follow policies that they themselves advertise?

Procrastastudy

LyndaMcL wrote: »

The majority (if not all) of phone retailers have a store policy of replacement or refund within 28 days if the phone is faulty. I know Meteor have signs all over their stores with this policy. Surely they're bound to follow policies that they themselves advertise?

Yes, but this isn't meteor.

Cabaal

LyndaMcL wrote: »

The majority (if not all) of phone retailers have a store policy of replacement or refund within 28 days if the phone is faulty. I know Meteor have signs all over their stores with this policy. Surely they're bound to follow policies that they themselves advertise?

err but do Three have such a policy?

Esoteric_

Cabaal wrote: »

err but do Three have such a policy?

I was using Meteor as an example, sorry for not being clearer.

My point was that I'd imagine that Three have such a policy in place if the OP is banging on about the 28 day return thing, which he seems to be doing. My bad for not being clearer.

theteal

yup, they all have these 28 day policies BUT it does not extend to apple phones and apparently that is by order of the fruity overlords

shrtdrk

LyndaMcL wrote: »

I was using Meteor as an example, sorry for not being clearer.

My point was that I'd imagine that Three have such a policy in place if the OP is banging on about the 28 day return thing, which he seems to be doing. My bad for not being clearer.

I was told in store, for every other phone, but Apple, they have such a replacement policy. This evening they said the same to a Senior Advisor calling from Apple. In England they have such a policy through out 3 Mobile.

[Procrastastudy] I have tried to negotiate with the retailer. The local mobile store staff member contacted her area manager by phone and supervisor in the Dublin office then reffered me to 3 Mobile Customer Care call centre.

You can't force the replacement; you can however repudiate the contract and if required pursue them in the small claims court. I'd suggest sending them a registered letter giving them ten working days to resolve the issue and then proceed with the SmCC if you don't get any joy. Failing that go straight to the SmCC.

I had not considered the small claims court I'm waiting on word from ComReg. an interesting suggestion thank you

shrtdrk

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81957818#post81957818 thread with orginal details

This evening I followed up on a call from Apple after half an hour they phoned me back and later I was transfered to a senior advisor. The Senior Advisor phoned the 3 mobile phone store Wexford. Mark informed her they won't replace a defective phone with one off the shelf. (This guy previously looked at the phone and said yes it's broken it must be the software) In short she was told what I'd been told, consumer law aside.

He suggested she phone the 3 mobile company head office in England. She had their details. In england to replace defective goods with one from the shelves at the point of purchase in this kind of case. All seemed good until she mentioned Ireland.

She rang the head office in Ireland and was put through to the same call centre I spoke to with the Indian staff and very very poor quality phone line, almost inaudible. After they took my details and phone number from me they told us they had arranged to send a bag out to me. The Apple senior advisor repeated what she had been told by the 3 mobile head office in England. there was no irish management or supervisor to discuss this.

It was repeated that 3 Mobile would send out a bag I was to put phone etc into it and send it back they would then send out a repaired phone. Last night were going to send out a new phone.

Other Irish retailers irrespective of their goods if they are faulty they will replace them at the point of purchase. Why won't 3 mobile do this. It's the law. The damage to the phone is impossible for me to do. It was sold with a damaged speaker.

I purchased the phone and contract Friday. I hadn't access to the 3 mobile service until Saturday. Mark in the 3 Mobile store, Wexford acknowledge there was an issue with the speaker Saturday morning. He tried fobbing it off as a software issue. With the assistance of Apple we've eliminated that possibility. I have 3 Apple ID case numbers outlining all that we did to try fix the phone.

My contact with 3 has been most unsatisfactory. I don't have a fully functioning phone indeed it's volume is such that in a normal working environment the phone would not even function as a usable phone.

The options I'm being given is to send the brand new phone to 3 mobile repairs and they send me back a repaired phone.

Send it to Apple and they send me back a phone all new but may have a pre-used chip.

Both mean I'm with out a mobile phone for up to three but could be ten days.

With such a poor and difficult to hear/ comprehend 3 mobile customer care service, there is a third option leave 3 mobile I'm waiting on a response from ComReg on the matter at it stood Monday night.

Three: Patrick Quote} send through your account information { Send it where? I don't have account details yet just an Order reference number. Notes on the 3 mobile system are being attributed to my ported mobile number. A number I have had since eircell days. [ :-) OK that bit was nostalgic but not relevant]

shrtdrk

theteal wrote: »

yup, they all have these 28 day policies BUT it does not extend to apple phones and apparently that is by order of the fruity overlords

Yes! Indeed how can they get away with that? :-/

Procrastastudy

Apple don't give two hoots about the local consumer laws, if you want to deal with Apple you do it Apple's way - I've no idea why people haven't unmasked this bunch of b... 'fruity overlords*' for what they are. That aside - I do need to reiterate under consumer law you are not entitled to an immediate replacement at point of purchase. They merely need to get it back to you without 'significant inconvenience'. Granted that would be very quickly given the circumstances and it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Comreg will have to investigate and may well take some time to get back to you. Realistically you have two options;

(i) Drop it all back with a letter and ask the to sign for it. If they will not; give them them the letter and record that they would not sign for the phone. Back this up with a registered letter in the post. Proceed to the SmCC if they will not terminate the contact and refund you.

(ii) Send it back for repair.

*Gave me a giggle - this will be shamelessly stolen.

eirator

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Apple don't give two hoots about the local consumer laws, if you want to deal with Apple you do it Apple's way - I've no idea why people haven't unmasked this bunch of b... 'fruity overlords*' for what they are. That aside - I do need to reiterate under consumer law you are not entitled to an immediate replacement at point of purchase. They merely need to get it back to you without 'significant inconvenience'. Granted that would be very quickly given the circumstances and it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Comreg will have to investigate and may well take some time to get back to you. Realistically you have two options;

(i) Drop it all back with a letter and ask the to sign for it. If they will not; give them them the letter and record that they would not sign for the phone. Back this up with a registered letter in the post. Proceed to the SmCC if they will not terminate the contact and refund you.

(ii) Send it back for repair.

*Gave me a giggle - this will be shamelessly stolen.

How does consumer law apply when the item that was sold was not a working iPhone in the first place?

Does comsumer law say its OK to sell faulty goods at POS and then make the customer get a repair or refurbished replacement?

Procrastastudy

eirator wrote: »

How does consumer law apply when the item that was sold was not a working iPhone in the first place?

Does comsumer law say its OK to sell faulty goods at POS and then make the customer get a repair or refurbished replacement?

You tell me I'm only reading the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act and S.I. No. 11/2003 — European Communities (Certain Aspects of the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees) Regulations 2003. If you're aware of other laws please enlighten me - I'm here to learn more than anything.

slimjimmc

shrtdrk wrote: »

Other Irish retailers irrespective of their goods if they are faulty they will replace them at the point of purchase. Why won't 3 mobile do this. It's the law.

Tbf I don't think the law says that at all. AFAIK what law does say is the retailer must provide a repair, replacement or refund but it doesn't state it has to come from the point of purchase. So if the replacement is provided by head office or another branch or some other route within a timely manner without undue inconvenience to the consumer then that's fine as far as the law is concern.

eirator

Procrastastudy wrote: »

You tell me I'm only reading the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act and S.I. No. 11/2003 — European Communities (Certain Aspects of the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees) Regulations 2003. If you're aware of other laws please enlighten me - I'm here to learn more than anything.

I'm being really dim here because I can't see how there is a contract at all if the original goods didn't work, once the OP has a new working phone then there is a contract so far that hasn't happened and never will happen because all he is being offered is a second hand phone (call it what ever you like).

Did the OP enter into contract with 3 for a second hand phone?

If the phone isn't replaced with a new one then whats to stop a retailer with a batch of new but faulty goods selling then to consumers and claiming the consumer only has the right to a repair?

I wouldn't be making the same point if the phone went wrong after it had been working OK for a while.

I'm sure I'm flogging a dead horse but if there isn't a starting point of a new working item as part of the original sale then at what point do we define what is of merchantable quality first place. If the new phone didn't turn on at all would it still be OK for the retailer to insist that it went for repair or refurbished replacement?

Procrastastudy

Interesting... I see where you are coming from. I think that would require an exploration of misrep - the outcome is the same though - the OP would have to sue.

Time

Ring the head office in Dublin (the 01 number on their website) and stay on the phone until you get sorted. I had an issue with three which i posted about previously and that was the only way i got sorted.

shrtdrk

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Apple don't give two hoots about the local consumer laws, if you want to deal with Apple you do it Apple's way - I've no idea why people haven't unmasked this bunch of b... 'fruity overlords*' for what they are. That aside - I do need to reiterate under consumer law you are not entitled to an immediate replacement at point of purchase. They merely need to get it back to you without 'significant inconvenience'. Granted that would be very quickly given the circumstances and it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Comreg will have to investigate and may well take some time to get back to you. Realistically you have two options;

(i) Drop it all back with a letter and ask the to sign for it. If they will not; give them them the letter and record that they would not sign for the phone. Back this up with a registered letter in the post. Proceed to the SmCC if they will not terminate the contact and refund you.

(ii) Send it back for repair.

*Gave me a giggle - this will be shamelessly stolen.

Actually the real problem is 3 Mobile Ireland. 3 Mobile head office in England were surprised by the query as it is their policy irrespective of phone make to replace a broken phone (It was damaged when I bought it) at the point of purchase. When they heard this was in Ireland. They said 3 Mobile Ireland may have had a different policy and they do when it comes to Apple products. It was a staff member at the point of purchase who referred us to their head office in England.

Thank you for your sound advice.

This morning I tried to cancel the contract with 3 Mobile. I was given the runaround again. Though with in 10 minutes of my sending details to a 3 Mobile Rep here on Boards.ie I received a call from the store saying they are now authorised to replace the 4S mobile with one off the shelf.

I don't think this is related as we were waiting from a response to an email sent from the store around 13:00 to the 3 Mobile office in Dublin.

shrtdrk

Intent on returning the phone and canceling the contract.

This morning after the iPhone synced to the XP machine. I then restored the software and set it up as a new phone making sure none of my contacts, music etc. could sync to the phone. Then I rang 3 Mobile contract cancellations. I followed the numbers and was surprised to find an Irish person on the end of those. The cancellation services office is apparently in Waterford. 3 Mobile Ireland Customer Care almost everything else is in Mumbai.

Surprise Surprise as it is a new contract she (Karen) couldn't cancel the contract. She would put me through to Sales Support. I was put on hold, no answer from Sales Support, put on hold again, still no answer put on hold again, later while she spoke to me Sales Support cut her off. [nice, they do that to themselves too.:rolleyes:] Karen rang them again, this time they said they couldn't do any thing as it is a new customer contract it had to be cancelled in the store where the phone and contract were bought. They (the store staff) would need to contact 3 Mobile Retail Support Team.

I went to the store, Phone cleared, cleaned & packaged. In store I was told no, no, no they can't cancel the contract in store, they're not authorised. They asked for the code to cancel. I explained the call I shared with Karen. That they must call 3 Mobile, Retail Support Team. The shop staff contacted 3 Mobile. I think they were told no they couldn't cancel the contract but something should be done.

So much for 3's 14 day returns policy (ok that's slightly different)

Another email is sent by the store staff to a superior in the Dublin Office and I am waiting for a reply.

• Why does 3 Mobile Ireland discriminate against Apple? Other brands of faulty phones can be replaced with a new phone off the shelf.
• Apple admit they are bound by the Irish statutory rights, why aren't 3 Mobile Ireland?
• Why aren't 3 mobile consistent across their company? This discrimination against Apple does not exist in England.
• Why can't I cancel the contract?

This afternoon at 12:45 I received a call from the 3 mobile store, Wexford, 3 Mobile, Dublin had given them permission to replace the phone with a brand new one off their shelf. They'll set it up in store. Check the settings and particularly that all its parts are working, Speaker included.

Am I crazy staying with 3 mobile? Probably.

In any case the store is open until 6.

Thank you everyone for your advice and some interesting insights.

Nody

shrtdrk wrote: »

• Why does 3 Mobile Ireland discriminate against Apple? Other brands of faulty phones can be replaced with a new phone off the shelf.

This has already been covered but I'll repeat; ANY Apple product require special procedures that may be against local laws that require everything goes via Apple support basically (and to save yourself a lot of hassle call Apple directly as well if you got a problem) to allow them to sell their Apple Support package (or pay for premium calls).

It's Apple's policy that wrecks havoc and any mobile phone company in all countries and not only Ireland basically which is why it goes through loops. If the phone companies don't follow said policy they will be told they are not getting as many/any <insert new Apple product> at next release. Due to this all phone companies basically are forced to jump though the loops or not have any new Iphones to sell until the market is saturated. Part of that policy would most likely include not allowing replacement directly but require appropiate send off for reviews etc. (i.e. what they offered) which the local Apple support may or may not be aware off.

foggy_lad

OP you should detail all that has happened so far in a letter or email to Three Ireland, ComReg as well as to Apple Ireland. Explain how on a brand new handset of such a high value you could not accept a repair or replacement with a refurbished unit as this will seriously diminish the value of your purchase. Explain to three that you wish to be released from the contract without penalty and will of course return the handset, this is because you no longer have any faith in them being able to provide customer care or after sales care for their service or product going forward.

Del2005

Nody wrote: »

This has already been covered but I'll repeat; ANY Apple product require special procedures that may be against local laws that require everything goes via Apple support basically (and to save yourself a lot of hassle call Apple directly as well if you got a problem) to allow them to sell their Apple Support package (or pay for premium calls).

It's Apple's policy that wrecks havoc and any mobile phone company in all countries and not only Ireland basically which is why it goes through loops. If the phone companies don't follow said policy they will be told they are not getting as many/any <insert new Apple product> at next release. Due to this all phone companies basically are forced to jump though the loops or not have any new Iphones to sell until the market is saturated. Part of that policy would most likely include not allowing replacement directly but require appropiate send off for reviews etc. (i.e. what they offered) which the local Apple support may or may not be aware off.

To see their respect for consumers and the law look at Apple's charger port for the iPhone(s). EU law states all phones sold in the EU have to be micro USB, Apple doesn't have it on any of their phones. The new one isn't even reverse compatible with the old ones.

Procrastastudy

Well done OP

eirator

shrtdrk wrote: »

...

This afternoon at 12:45 I received a call from the 3 mobile store, Wexford, 3 Mobile, Dublin had given them permission to replace the phone with a brand new one off their shelf. They'll set it up in store. Check the settings and particularly that all its parts are working, Speaker included.

Am I crazy staying with 3 mobile? Probably.

In any case the store is open until 6.

Thank you everyone for your advice and some interesting insights.

Call me cynical and many people do but just make sure that the phone they set up for you isn't sitting waiting for you in an open box. I hope I don't need to explain why

shrtdrk

I was very careful, though I didn't need to be as suspicious as I was. It was in a sealed box. The staff put the IMEI number into the system & updated the paperwork* before unsealing the phone & setting it up. We tested it instore. We You Tubed, sound worked, we called the phone, speaker worked. We did a few other tests. All good. I synced the phone with itunes when I got home, updated the system software etc. it's all good so far.

*that seemed a little premature for me but it worked out in the end.

keithclancy

Sounds like a lot of hassle.

You'd have been best off to send it directly to Apple:
http://www.apple.com/ie/support/contact/

They replace pretty much all iPhones (like for like) even though they say they repair them.

SteveDPirate

Glad you got sorted in the end mate. These stories are quite common. Apple dictate the returns policy for their products, and they couldn't give a crap if they don't comply with with local consumer law. This is why I'll never buy Apple again.

If you buy something and it's faulty out of the box (like in your case), you're entitled to your money back or a replacement. It's ridiculous what you had to go through.

eirator

SteveDPirate wrote: »

Glad you got sorted in the end mate. These stories are quite common. Apple dictate the returns policy for their products, and they couldn't give a crap if they don't comply with with local consumer law. This is why I'll never buy Apple again.

If you buy something and it's faulty out of the box (like in your case), you're entitled to your money back or a replacement. It's ridiculous what you had to go through.

The root of the problem is obviously Apple but that should not be made the customers problem by the retailer.

afaik the issue is that Apple have a system that makes it difficult/impossible for the retailer to send back damaged phones and get a new replacement so the retailer is passing on this problem to the customer. I say thats tough sh!t for the retailer if they want the customer business for selling Apple products then they have to decide if dealing with Apple is a worthwhile proposition and NOT just pass the problem on to the customer.

keithclancy

eirator wrote: »

The root of the problem is obviously Apple but that should not be made the customers problem by the retailer.

afaik the issue is that Apple have a system that makes it difficult/impossible for the retailer to send back damaged phones and get a new replacement so the retailer is passing on this problem to the customer. I say thats tough sh!t for the retailer if they want the customer business for selling Apple products then they have to decide if dealing with Apple is a worthwhile proposition and NOT just pass the problem on to the customer.

In fairness if you deal with apple directly the service is really good.

If you involve a middleman (the retailer) then it just makes the experience terrible.