Ireland v Argentina: A Review

leftleg

The Inside Pass:

I mentioned in the preview that Ireland had been practicing the inside pass to great effect. It produced Ireland’s nicest break against the tight defence so far against South Africa. Against Argentina, it was used over and over again to devastating effect. The first 2 tries of the game were made directly by inside passes on the gain line. These plays were so devastatingly accurate because all attackers in the line were possible targets and all were taking or willing to offer themselves right on the gain line. It’s very difficult for any defence to be in anyway effective when each defender has to make more than one choice in such a short space of time and distance. Gilroy popped up on 6 minutes to take the first of many inside passes from Sexton. This time he burst straight into a tight Argentine double tackle, but the warning signs were there. Then on 10 minutes 20 seconds Ireland transformed a lineout into a rolling maul. Ten seconds and one delicious inside pass from sexton later and Craig Gilroy was celebrating his fourth try in as many games for Ireland. In the lead up to Sextons first and Irelands second try, Ireland again used the inside pass. First it was Gilroy from a nicely weighted pop from Murray on 14 minutes in the centre of the pitch. Next Earls took a Sexton inside pass a minute later. It all culminated in D’arcy supplying the final inside pass to Sexton on 15 minutes and 30 seconds. This game play was vintage 2006 champagne stuff when Eddie had Ireland purring off first phase set piece play. The passing was accurate on each occasion and the support was always there to finish. Simple, but very effective attacking play by Ireland.

Sexton and Gilroy:

Johnny Sexton is the type of fly half that demands that his link up players come to the line. For a while now he has seemed isolated in the type of game he wants his players in attack to play. For large swaths of the first half and in particular the first thirty minutes of the game Sexton and Gilroy seemed to be on each other’s exact wavelength. So much has been made of the bigger stronger bosher shaped winger and the likes of a Shane Williams type small stepping pacey winger seemed to be a thing of the pass. Saturday’s game was an advertisement of what a little pocket rocket can do on the wing. Jason Robinson and indeed Shane Williams would have enjoyed watching Craig Gilroy on Saturday. But players like Gilroy need a fly half who’s willing to demand the ball on the gain-line to release them. Gilroy has a nice step but it takes a good fly half to put him in to those positions where he can wreak such havoc and as he did.



The two Mikes and the scrum:

It seems Mike Ross can do no right for the media. Jim Glennon gave him 6.5 in his player reviews for the game in the Sindo, The lowest score of all the forwards in the game. Gerry did not even mention him in his Monday piece in the game but did miraculously remember him on Tuesday with this little quote
“The Fijian game, when only the captain Jamie Heaslip, Mike Ross (out of a need for game time) and Murray (due to Eoin Reddan being injured) were retained, and three uncapped Ulster tyros were blooded, couldn’t in truth have been used any better.”
It’s quite bizarre how a tight head, who, pretty much single handedly dismantled the Argentine scrum for over an hour can be given barely a mention and, even when brought up, is subtly maligned by more than one journalist. It could be understood if his opposite was say weak but Marcus Ayerza is anything but. Ross not only locked him out but also managed to push him down repeatedly throughout the game. One could say he’s a great scrummaging prop, but behind every destructive prop is strong solid second row. Mike McCarthy seems to give Mike Ross something extra in the scrum as a tight head lock that Stackhanov couldn’t against the Bok’s. Now I did mention that Argentina seemed a bit “light” up front in my initial preview of the game and that Ross, Strauss and Healy could make hay against this loss, but I didn’t know they were going to have a field day like this one. Right from the first minute the Irish scrum and Ross in particular gave Argentina nothing but scrapes and scabby scrapes at that. New Captain Jamie Heaslip appeared cool and collected on nearly every scrum as the tight five made mincemeat of the Argentine front five.

Leonardo Senatore:

This guy got a mention in my original review and for all the wrong reasons. Firstly I’d barely heard of him. Secondly he didn’t seem overly tall or heavy or quick for an eight. Thirdly, his inclusion had somehow managed to shunt what is probably one of the best eights in world rugby to six. How this guy managed to get the jersey behind the scrum ahead of Juan Fernandez Lobbe, I’ll never know. His only real highlights of note was kicking a loose ball into touch when a possible break was on and dropping a relatively easy high ball whilst under no pressure. His glaring mistakes made his inclusion in front of Lobbe all the more stranger the more and more the match wore on.

Conor Murray:

Murray had a bit of dream of a game. Nearly everything he did came off well, box kicking apart. I mentioned that the time had come for both he and Sexton to gel. They duly obliged. First things first, He managed to arrive at every ruck on time. Secondly he looked before picking up the ball. He managed to take in all his options before he got to the ruck, thus negating the ponderous two step crab that had crept into his game. Before he got the ball he seemed to have a clear idea of what he was doing. Watch Gilroy’s first try. Or better still watch Sexton’s first try. In each one Murray clearly knows what he wants to do before he has the ball. He can be visibly seen seeking out Sexton for each pass.



Peter O’ Mahoney:

Peter O’ Mahoney played his heart out on Saturday and gave his all as usual. But is it enough? Is is nearly too much? He’s heaps of talent and showed that he can carry even against good opposition. But there’s a fine line between playing with heart and emotion and being a bit of a hot head and penalty machine. He gave away a few lousy ones against Argentina. Two of them were particularly bad. Blocking chasers and pulling down line outs is not something that should be done in international games. It’s just too obvious and good referees and linesmen spot it a mile away. A wet Sunday evening in Musgrave Park or Rodney Parade maybe, but Saturday afternoon against a team we desperately need to beat is just plain idiocy. Another slightly worrying issue is his penchant for getting into the handbags. It has become a little more than every now and then that Peter finds himself engulfed in elbows and fists and jersey pulling at some stage in every game he plays. Now I know there have been murmurings of eye gouging in one particular incident, but he was at it in the Bok game as well.

I’d love to see him concentrate on letting his ball handling and all round rugby skills do the talking instead of getting dragged down into brawling over who threw the ball at who.

Keith Earls:

Saturday was Earls final chance to show what he has at 13. Did he show enough?? Is he the real deal at 13?? Unfortunately Argentina got so little ball in the game, he was never really tested in defence at 13, much like against England in the Aviva when he played at 15. He as quick as a bullet and at one stage in the first half on 20 minutes he was centimetres away from a clever dink through by Zebo. Later he jinked one way then the other nearly in one body move and then exploded in through a tiny opening between the covering defence and was only just tackled as he went through. What worries me is two things. Firstly he does not seem aware of players around him like, say a natural 13. D’arcy gave a virtuoso performance at twelve in both defence and attack. Putting Sexton in early in the game and generally making hard yards seem easy. He did the basics right. Now one can argue so did Keith with that dink through, but the more I watch Keith at 13 the more I see an 11 or a 14 rather than a 13. Maybe I’m being harsh on the guy but now he is in a small bit of bother. Before Saturday he could count on three positions that he could easily fill, 11, 14 and of course 13. Now with Tommy Bowe and Craig Gilroy having tear away games on the wing and Keith being “quiet but effective” at 13, Once O’ Driscoll comes back, what then for Keith? I don’t think he did enough “magic” to make Declan, or anyone else for that matter, sit up and go “Eureka!!” He could find himself riding pine come the 6 nations.



Did Kidney revitalise the team?

I have already mentioned pleasure and pain. Declan gave it to us again. This time though, it really is getting ridiculous. Declan is getting a penchant for flogging Liginds. First John Hayes had the ignomity of experiencing a French onslaught that belatedly finished his international career in 2010. Now Donnacha O’ Callaghan and Ronan O’ Gara seem destined for the same fate. O’ Gara has come on late in two of the last three games and been the source of massive mistakes. Now some mistakes are quite clearly excusable through inexperience, over exuberance or sheer bad luck. O’ Gara’s 22 drop out on Saturday must be the nail in his international coffin at this stage. Mistakes like this have no place on the international stage and the more Declan allows this the more a once great players Legend becomes tainted. All one needs to do is check up on Muhhamad Ali against Leon Spinks in 1978. Legends can rise high but they can also fall far if allowed to. Donnacha O’ Callaghan is in the same boat, mistakes apart. It’s plain to see now DOC brings very little to the international arena now and his time has surely passed. The question is why keep playing them in front of younger more superior players.



The 10 minute bench:

It was about 53 minutes in after Ireland had got to 39 points for and 12 points against, that I wondered about the bench. Sexton was being kept unhappy by the post at conversion time and as the kicks and replays were being shown I searched in vain for movement at the bench or the fainting glance of a sub running the length of the touch line. By 60 minutes my anger was clearly quite audible by my SOH in the next room. It was 7 minutes later that we were given a welcome shot of the bench. To my horror everyone was still wrapped up! Not one coat had been removed. Stackhanov and Kilcoyne were riding the bikes and that was it. On 62 minutes finally Donnacha made his entrance for the efficient Mike McCarthy. We had to wait another 5 minutes for Bent to come for Mike Ross. His first involvement was to destroy the now exhausted Argentine 7 man scrum. Remember you can only destroy what’s in-front of you. Reddan also got a look-in on 71 minutes. All very very late though. These are the type of situations that come up once in a blue moon for Irish International Rugby, a half decent opposition that’s finished by just after half time. Why didn’t he Give the bench a chance as soon as the proverbial cat was in the bag?

Special praise I think should go the Donnacha Ryan. He makes a mean Line out tick over nicely and possesses incredible spring coupled with a long distance engine. He also never ever seems to get injured. Touch wood of course.
On another note, people have mentioned Simon Zebo knocking on. Why did he knock on so much? Coincidence, maybe, not in my books. The guy is absolutely electric in attack and seems to be eager to get on the end of every move. He possesses that which every finisher needs and should have. The willingness and effort to be in the right place at the right time. It’s still quite raw and needs a bit of work but he could be quite a lethal finisher at international level if he can keep popping up on the shoulders of breaking players. Good job Simon.

And finally, while it was a bit of an uplifting game from Ireland perspective, lets not get too carried away. Argentina were clearly finished by the 24th minute. A small part of me thinks they saw their game against France as there final examination this month gone and were probably texting loved ones in the dressing room at half time to make sure they had the welcome home celebrations all in order. This seemed to be a far different side that tore Wales to pieces a fortnight before. Or was it?

Declan Kidney and Ireland still baffle me completely.

Teferi

Good review.

Particularly agree about Earls. It's an opinion I got slated for a few months ago - I really do think he is hurting his future international prospects by continuing on as a 13. He's a world class winger pretending to be a centre, I feel he'll always do a job at 13 but little more. What will happen once we find a natural 13 (or Cave is given a real chance?)? Earls will be fighting for a place on the wing which is a place where we seem to have serious depth.

Obviously Earls is one of Kidneys favourites so if BOD is back I think we'll see him on the wing again but under a competent coach who believes in picking players on form and fosters an environment of competition for places I can see Earls having a real fight on his hands.

tbm

Nice work.

Fooker

We could possibly see D'arcy dropped to facilitate Earls..

molloyjh

A bit harsh on DOC I thought. Certainly earlier this year he looked a spent force, but his form has improved again this season and he is actually going pretty well. With POC out he is the best bench option at the moment.

I also think you've overdone the POM penalty machine point. He's not as good as some would have us believe (yet) but he's not that bad either.

Other than that I'd agree with that overall review. I can't see how ROG deserves his place any more. While Sexton played flat coming onto the ball and inviting runners off his shoulders ROG simply took the SHs pass from a standing start and shoved it across field. Then of course he handed the Pumas a try, which was lovely of him. The guy has been a legend of the game here, but his constant selection these days is leaving a sour taste in a lot of peoples mouths. And that's not how he should be remembered.

I also think that when the game had gone a little flat at around 60 mins was the time to bring in Reddan, and maybe even McFadden for Darce. Fresh legs from players who were looking to impress. We could have kicked on more at that stage of the game than we did. We really need to be ruthless like that. Instead Kidney left the game go a bit dead and while we obviously never looked like losing it, we never looked like truly pulling away either. Imagine the overall squad confidence that we could have generated from a really serious thrashing of Argentina by 23 players, rather than a comfortable win by 15-20 players.

Mr.Applepie

These kinds of balanced and reasoned opinions have no place on this forum!

molloyjh

Another point to note, but I love the way Johnny looks for work. Even after releasing passes he doesn't stop, doesn't ease back at all, he's constantly looking to take ball on and is always providing an option. He did it a few times on Saturday and it was great to see. Previously in green he's given the pass and then didn't feature at all until after the next breakdown.

Just listening to DK on Against the Head though and he is saying it's the little things that make the difference. Nothing about the fact that we employed a completely different game plan to the SA game. It's still infuriating listening to him!

CIARAN_BOYLE

molloyjh wrote: »

Another point to note, but I love the way Johnny looks for work. Even after releasing passes he doesn't stop, doesn't ease back at all, he's constantly looking to take ball on and is always providing an option. He did it a few times on Saturday and it was great to see. Previously in green he's given the pass and then didn't feature at all until after the next breakdown.

Just listening to DK on Against the Head though and he is saying it's the little things that make the difference. Nothing about the fact that we employed a completely different game plan to the SA game. It's still infuriating listening to him!

One of the RTE commentators I forget who is fond of quoting someone, 'if the OH touches the ball once its normal, if the OH touches the ball twice in a phase there is a break of some sort, if the OH touches the ball three times in a phase then a try will be scored'

GerM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

One of the RTE commentators I forget who is fond of quoting someone, 'if the OH touches the ball once its normal, if the OH touches the ball twice in a phase there is a break of some sort, if the OH touches the ball three times in a phase then a try will be scored'

It was a phrase coined for Mark Ella, when he was transforming back play 25-30 years ago. They said that if he handled the ball more than once in a phase, it was a try.

shuffol

Sexton is denied a huge amount of tries by the ball carrier failing to find him after a break or half break, his support running is top class, in a side like the AB's he'd score tonnes of tries.

pickarooney

Where does the name 'Stackhanov' for O'Callaghan come from?

ray jay

Nice review leftleg.

Fooker wrote: »

We could possibly see D'arcy dropped to facilitate Earls..

True, I wouldn't be too surprised if this happened.

errlloyd

pickarooney wrote: »

Where does the name 'Stackhanov' for O'Callaghan come from?

Think its something to do with the amount of work he gets through. Stankovich was a russian man who was used as a propaganda model by the communist party after doing a serious amount of digging.

Timothy Bryce

errlloyd wrote: »

Think its something to do with the amount of work he gets through. Stankovich was a russian man who was used as a propaganda model by the communist party after doing a serious amount of digging.

Known for his unseen work down the Russian mines apparently.

19543261

leftleg wrote: »

review

Thoroughly enjoyed reading that. Thanks. There's still so much I dont pick up on.

ScissorPaperRock

Good read. Thanks leftleg.

Scioch

Nice write up. Just on the inside pass and the Sexton taking it flat thing. We do the inside pass in every game, often to the point of over doing it. I recall many a frustrating game spent screaming at them to stop wasting the ball going into contact in the centre and start sending it wide. This isnt anything new and we do it with runners too.

The reason it was so effective this time is because Argentina stood off and never committed. Had they pushed up and committed to tackles, Sexton wouldnt have been able to get so flat and defenders wouldnt have been caught out.

I stand by my point in the match thread. It was a good game to watch but its nothing to shout about. Argentina stood off and let us run riot.

.ak

In fairness we never play that flat Scioch. I know what you're saying, the Argies kinda let us, but we never even attempt it, especially against teams who were there for the taking imo (ala Wales 6N).

Scioch

.ak wrote: »

In fairness we never play that flat Scioch. I know what you're saying, the Argies kinda let us, but we never even attempt it, especially against teams who were there for the taking imo (ala Wales 6N).

Was it ever an option though ? I dont recall any other team standing off like Argentina did. In the Welsh game I recall us standing off (not sure if was WC, 6N or both) and Wales pushing up. I know we never had any intentions of doing it as was clear at the time. But even if we did try to get that flat would Sexton have been able to get the ball away ?

Scioch

Highlights of the game for reference. Look at Sextons first try @26 sec. Look where he received the ball and where he was when he passed. The argies were rooted. And then forgot how to tackle after they the line was broken.

George Hook's backline to beat Argentina. Forgot I had a giggle at this before.

Podge_irl

He actually said that? He truly knows absolutely nothing.

Ireland certainly benefited from the Ariges standing off them and choosing not to tackle after any linebreaks. However, while it may be a cliché, you can only beat what is in front of you and Ireland did that admirably.

Sexton is exceptionally adept at using the inside pass and its a move that he has been using for Leinster to great effect. Its all about strike runners coming in on the 10s shoulder - be that backrows or wingers. It has to be done on the gainline however, and that's where Ireland have been struggling recently. Sexton has been standing too far back and was receiving the ball too slowly from the ruck.

I think you overstate POM being a penalty machine a bit much, but I agree on the handbags thing. He appears to think being an enforcer involves getting into needless scuffles. He's no Quinlan (though he has the time and basic skills to get there).



Its all for nowt if Kidney reverts to type for the 6N though. The first game up against Wales is huge - particularly if we lose. Kidney was far too quick to abandon a more attacking gameplan in the 2011 6N because of a narrow loss to France.

accidentprone1

Deleted User wrote: »

George Hook's backline to beat Argentina. Forgot I had a giggle at this before.

Is this actually saying we start Sexton at 12?

Glass Prison 1214

accidentprone1 wrote: »

Is this actually saying we start Sexton at 12?

The notion of STARTING ROG is far me concerning if u ask me. Although Sexton at 12 is also ridiculous, as is McFadden at 13 and Madigan at 15.

Grimebox

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

The notion of STARTING ROG is far me concerning if u ask me. Although Sexton at 12 is also ridiculous, as is McFadden at 13 and Madigan at 15.

I think Madigan had more of a claim to 15 than Zebo to be honest prior to the last two Ireland games.

durkadurka

Grimebox wrote: »

I think Madigan had more of a claim to 15 than Zebo to be honest prior to the last two Ireland games.

Madigan never looks like more than a stopgap at full back for me. But yeah, he at least played there a few times!



Also the notion of ROG and Reddan together is double mad.

Scioch

Grimebox wrote: »

I think Madigan had more of a claim to 15 than Zebo to be honest prior to the last two Ireland games.

And Gilroy had more of a claim to be on the NZ tour. But Kidney decided he liked Zebo so everything else didnt matter much.

jm08

Scioch wrote: »

And Gilroy had more of a claim to be on the NZ tour. But Kidney decided he liked Zebo so everything else didnt matter much.

It looks like Mark Anscombe liked Trimble more than Gilroy as well.

Some people would regard that is excellent planning by Kidney. The experienced gained by Zebo going on that tour helped him slot into the fullback position with ease when Kearney (and a lot of other fullbacks) were not available.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Ulster now for the rest of the season. Will Gilroy be selected ahead of Andrew Trimble?

CIARAN_BOYLE

jm08 wrote: »

It looks like Mark Anscombe liked Trimble more than Gilroy as well.

Some people would regard that is excellent planning by Kidney. The experienced gained by Zebo going on that tour helped him slot into the fullback position with ease when Kearney (and a lot of other fullbacks) were not available.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Ulster now for the rest of the season. Will Gilroy be selected ahead of Andrew Trimble?

If Gilroy had of gone on tour he probably would have slotted in at FB with Kearney unavailable. Girloy at least has experience at FB. Honestly Gilroy/Zebo is much of a muchness imo. Either or really.

One thing I don't was commented on after the match was that Gilroy was the first person to congratulate nearly every try scorer. This wasn't because he just likes celebrating tries bur rather because he was the closest support player option for an offload.

Scioch

jm08 wrote: »

It looks like Mark Anscombe liked Trimble more than Gilroy as well.

Some people would regard that is excellent planning by Kidney. The experienced gained by Zebo going on that tour helped him slot into the fullback position with ease when Kearney (and a lot of other fullbacks) were not available.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Ulster now for the rest of the season. Will Gilroy be selected ahead of Andrew Trimble?

I think Kidney took a punt despite there being clear evidence to show it was the wrong option. Dont think its good planning at all. Just didnt turn out to be a disaster because Zebo is a good player. But it was still the wrong option to select him ahead of Gilroy.

Will Gilroy get ahead of Trimble ? Not for a while yet imo, I think Gilroy and Zebo are going places and fast but have a ways to go yet before they are in the same category as the established wingers. Just think Trimble with his experience and how he's playing offers more in big games than Gilroy. Who knows though, if Gilroy gets a run of games and keeps doing his thing Trimble might find it hard to keep the spot.

pappyodaniel

As far as Rugby punditry goes, George Hook has jumped the shark with that last tweet. And to think I used to take him seriously. :rolleyes:

jm08

Scioch wrote: »

I think Kidney took a punt despite there being clear evidence to show it was the wrong option. Dont think its good planning at all. Just didnt turn out to be a disaster because Zebo is a good player. But it was still the wrong option to select him ahead of Gilroy.

Will Gilroy get ahead of Trimble ? Not for a while yet imo, I think Gilroy and Zebo are going places and fast but have a ways to go yet before they are in the same category as the established wingers. Just think Trimble with his experience and how he's playing offers more in big games than Gilroy. Who knows though, if Gilroy gets a run of games and keeps doing his thing Trimble might find it hard to keep the spot.

What clear evidence to suggest it was the wrong option?
Zebo last season: 23 games 11 tries.
Gilroy: 29 games 6 tries.
Gilroy dropped in the pecking order in Ulster.

There was also the issue that if Gilroy travelled, Ulster would have been down their 3 top wingers for the start of the season (Trimble on tour, Bowe injury).

If Kidney was taking a punt, it was dropping Trimble for Gilroy.

Scioch

jm08 wrote: »

What clear evidence to suggest it was the wrong option?
Zebo last season: 23 games 11 tries.
Gilroy: 29 games 6 tries.
Gilroy dropped in the pecking order in Ulster.

There was also the issue that if Gilroy travelled, Ulster would have been down their 3 top wingers for the start of the season (Trimble on tour, Bowe injury).

If Kidney was taking a punt, it was dropping Trimble for Gilroy.

Gilroy was clearly the better player on better form. And outplayed everyone against the barbarians before the tour.

I'm not entertaining this try count stuff anymore. No offence, but that argument has been done to death and the fact it that its not indicative of player ability. If it was Fionn Carr would be a capped international by now.

The Ulster thing is also ridiculous, Gilroy wasnt left behind to play for Ulster, he was left behind because Kidney chose to bring Zebo.

Taking a punt dropping Trimble ? Not really, he always looked for excuses to drop Trimble as he favoured the quick footed guys and Gilroy played himself into the team. The punts were on Zebo at FB, Zebo going to NZ, Murray at SH in the WC. Stuff that had no reason behind it other than "Shur ya never know". While people who we did know about sat looking on.

Teferi

jm08 wrote: »

Zebo last season: 23 games 11 tries.
Gilroy: 29 games 6 tries.

Zebo - 3 Irish caps, 1 try - 33% success
Gilroy - 1 Irish cap, 1 try - 100% success

Clearly Gilroy is the better option, sure he has a 100% record.

Quint2010

pappyodaniel wrote: »

As far as Rugby punditry goes, George Hook has jumped the shark with that last tweet. And to think I used to take him seriously. :rolleyes:

"Win 2 tickets to Leinster v Zebre thanks to @Conraddublin, plus dinner for 2 at the hotel's Alex Restaurant. Retweet for a chance to win! "

Grimebox

Teferi wrote: »

Zebo - 3 Irish caps, 1 try - 33% success
Gilroy - 1 Irish cap, 1 try - 100% success

Clearly Gilroy is the better option, sure he has a 100% record.

What if Gilroy got two tries in his first test - 200% success?!

Teferi

Grimebox wrote: »

What if Gilroy got two tries in his first test - 200% success?!

Then he will be 167% more successful than Zebo. It can only grow.